The Black Hand - Guild beta recruitment

He means he will hack his client to package sniff what his router is getting and rage quit when someone he has blocked comes into his instance, at least by what I can make of what he said. Problem is that's griefing and blatant cheating and here's to hoping FD already has a 256 bit encryption to their packages and a detection system for client hacking so people who entertain such notions get a nice permaban.

no hacking needed. you can always look up the adresses you are connected to (tracert) and block them in the router, windows firewall...or use windows "route" to send the packets to nirvana.

you have in no way to interfere with the client files or client memory.
 
I'd hope that ip blocking other players the server has instanced you with would kick you from the game, doing it repeatedly should result in a ban IMO.

But how would they know, could be a dodgy routing node, may well be you have good reason to block a whole range of IP addresses which is nothing to do with the game. (Like myself you may have a LGTV which spies on you - so I block quite a few IP's on that, and when the list gets too large I just up a level and block there. Fine it means I lose some addresses in South Korea but meh.)

You may choose to block an IP address as that particular one always leads to instance stability issues for your client.

Loads of reasons why. In the end blocking a particular address is no different from having an ignore button that actually ignores.
 
-hears matching IP-
Dumb question: how do you block dynamic IPs?
Dumber question: how can you sniff out a proxy?
Sublimely dumb question: what if to counter this FD sets up proxies to act as relays so everyone would have the same IP information but data is sorted by identity contained in a small encrypted data "tags" to each package?
 
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-hears matching IP-
Dumb question: how do you block dynamic IPs?
Dumber question: how can you sniff out a proxy?
Sublimely dumb question: what if to counter this FD sets up proxies to act as relays so everyone would have the same IP information but Dta is sorted by identity contained in a small encrypted data "tags" to each package?

Dynamic IP's tend to be ranged, It may mean that I'm not going to see anyone from downtown Chicago, or players who all happened to sign up to Hicksville Internet Services LLC. But if it means that I don't get that one particular idiot, in my instance, ever again than fine.

And if FD goes to he expense of setting up proxies and paying for all that traffic to be routed then things get a little harder. But again the whole reason for P2P was to reduce cost overhead. Much easier and probably cheaper to beef up the ignore button to mean ignore, rather than spend money for the few, who have a real problem with another individual in the game, to be forced to interact with that individual.
 
Dynamic IP's tend to be ranged, It may mean that I'm not going to see anyone from downtown Chicago, or players who all happened to sign up to Hicksville Internet Services LLC. But if it means that I don't get that one particular idiot, in my instance, ever again than fine.

And if FD goes to he expense of setting up proxies and paying for all that traffic to be routed then things get a little harder. But again the whole reason for P2P was to reduce cost overhead. Much easier and probably cheaper to beef up the ignore button to mean ignore, rather than spend money for the few, who have a real problem with another individual in the game, to be forced to interact with that individual.
Or they could outright ban anyone playing in all and doing this stuff...especially with the dynamic IPs if you block a range they can pick 50 from that range and ping you with them to find out if you are pulling such stunts and when they get 50/50 negatives they are sure and ban you outright from online play.

Would take time yes but both antisocial extremes need to be stomped out.
 
But how would they know, could be a dodgy routing node, may well be you have good reason to block a whole range of IP addresses which is nothing to do with the game. (Like myself you may have a LGTV which spies on you - so I block quite a few IP's on that, and when the list gets too large I just up a level and block there. Fine it means I lose some addresses in South Korea but meh.)

You may choose to block an IP address as that particular one always leads to instance stability issues for your client.

Loads of reasons why. In the end blocking a particular address is no different from having an ignore button that actually ignores.

Might sound harsh but this is a partly peer to peer game, I think if people are going to deliberately block people the game has peered them with then they shouldn't be playing. I'd hazard a guess this would be a minuscule minority of players and I don't see why they should be able to break the rules of the game and potentially cause problems by causing faulty instances for others.
 
Or they could outright ban anyone playing in all and doing this stuff...especially with the dynamic IPs if you block a range they can pick 50 from that range and ping you with them to find out if you are pulling such stunts and when they get 50/50 negatives they are sure and ban you outright from online play.

Would take time yes but both antisocial extremes need to be stomped out.

i never said i'm doing this...or intend to do it in the future ;)
to be honest, i'm much too lazy to maintain a block list or write some code that does it for me.
there are groups. the more i see in game and read here in the forums, the more likely i will make extensive use of it.
 
Might sound harsh but this is a partly peer to peer game, I think if people are going to deliberately block people the game has peered them with then they shouldn't be playing. I'd hazard a guess this would be a minuscule minority of players and I don't see why they should be able to break the rules of the game and potentially cause problems by causing faulty instances for others.

Impossible to prove and enforce. There's a whole host of reasons why addresses and ranges are blocked on the internet. It could be as simple as your ISP identifies malicious traffic and so blocks the range. If you happen to be assigned an address on the same range then sorry it's highly doubtful our machines are going to ever talk, intentionally or not. Likewise I've reason to not let my Telly speak to South Korea unless I want it to. If its easier to block a range, just like my ISP I block a range. If you just so happen to fall within that range then blame LG, not me or the game.

You shouldn't break the instance for others as you should never be able to handshake with them - so there'd never be any traffic between you and them. It may well be that on matchmaking it sees that there is an issue between your client and their client and so it drops you into a different instance but so what, no one has suffered in the initial instance.

What rules are they going to use to ban, breaking the EULA? How are they ever going to be able to prove, and is it worth the effort in trying to prove Player A has intentionally blocked Player B. Player A hasn't interfered with the client. He's not interfered with the code, he's interfered with the way the computer he's payed for, transmits and receives information, over the internet which he pays for as well.
 
Impossible to prove and enforce. There's a whole host of reasons why addresses and ranges are blocked on the internet. It could be as simple as your ISP identifies malicious traffic and so blocks the range. If you happen to be assigned an address on the same range then sorry it's highly doubtful our machines are going to ever talk, intentionally or not. Likewise I've reason to not let my Telly speak to South Korea unless I want it to. If its easier to block a range, just like my ISP I block a range. If you just so happen to fall within that range then blame LG, not me or the game.

You shouldn't break the instance for others as you should never be able to handshake with them - so there'd never be any traffic between you and them. It may well be that on matchmaking it sees that there is an issue between your client and their client and so it drops you into a different instance but so what, no one has suffered in the initial instance.

What rules are they going to use to ban, breaking the EULA? How are they ever going to be able to prove, and is it worth the effort in trying to prove Player A has intentionally blocked Player B. Player A hasn't interfered with the client. He's not interfered with the code, he's interfered with the way the computer he's payed for, transmits and receives information, over the internet which he pays for as well.

Offline or group/solo online, if you want pull Company of Heroes 1 era connection bull**** it will either be the devs or the community that gets you. You want to play selectively friendlist people allot more than block otherwise you will be blatantly obvious when 3/4 of the globe gets booted from your instance.

Christ even Goonswarm of old in EVE would not stoop so low for fun ( and back before TiDi it was usually a case of who crashes the server first in blob warfare ).
 
Offline or group/solo online, if you want pull Company of Heroes 1 era connection bull**** it will either be the devs or the community that gets you. You want to play selectively friendlist people allot more than block otherwise you will be blatantly obvious when 3/4 of the globe gets booted from your instance.

Christ even Goonswarm of old in EVE would not stoop so low for fun ( and back before TiDi it was usually a case of who crashes the server first in blob warfare ).

Why so angry? Noir, it's not worth an embolism over. It is after all just a game.

And selective friends list are already in the game, there called private groups. Have you had a chance to peak at the DDF yet?

http://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=6300

The whole game is tailored to allow individuals to play the game in a way they want to. It's heavily biased against anyone forcing anything on anyone else.
 
Why so angry? Noir, it's not worth an embolism over. It is after all just a game.

And selective friends list are already in the game, there called private groups. Have you had a chance to peak at the DDF yet?

http://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=6300

The whole game is tailored to allow individuals to play the game in a way they want to. It's heavily biased against anyone forcing anything on anyone else.

Precisely, your idea is only really applicable to all which destroys the point of it.
 
Impossible to prove and enforce. There's a whole host of reasons why addresses and ranges are blocked on the internet. It could be as simple as your ISP identifies malicious traffic and so blocks the range. If you happen to be assigned an address on the same range then sorry it's highly doubtful our machines are going to ever talk, intentionally or not. Likewise I've reason to not let my Telly speak to South Korea unless I want it to. If its easier to block a range, just like my ISP I block a range. If you just so happen to fall within that range then blame LG, not me or the game.

You shouldn't break the instance for others as you should never be able to handshake with them - so there'd never be any traffic between you and them. It may well be that on matchmaking it sees that there is an issue between your client and their client and so it drops you into a different instance but so what, no one has suffered in the initial instance.

What rules are they going to use to ban, breaking the EULA? How are they ever going to be able to prove, and is it worth the effort in trying to prove Player A has intentionally blocked Player B. Player A hasn't interfered with the client. He's not interfered with the code, he's interfered with the way the computer he's payed for, transmits and receives information, over the internet which he pays for as well.
I'm no expert on these things and obviously none of us know the details of how the ingamge networking will function, it's blatantly obvious though that deliberately attempting to override the in game grouping mechanics is against the spirit of the game, that's pretty low IMO.
 
Precisely, your idea is only really applicable to all which destroys the point of it.

The real function of the ignore button would be to ignore totally the antisocial idiots who continually ruin an individuals gaming experience.

Understandably the reason the ignore function is so weak is to stop abuse of it by players. Far to easy just to fly around clicking to put all pirates on ignore if ignore actually meant ignore.

For the odd anti-social idiot who slips through the net, who for what ever reason, geography, timings, mutual friends, the function fails to catch, then I can see people using blacklists. I cannot see a practical method of stopping this. Not without undue expense far in excess of what if anything it's saving.

It isn't like people are going to be running around, making time logs of players they see in instances and adding every pirate they encounter to their firewalls. For that kind of player the grouping system exists and is a lot, lot easier to implement use.

Added: There are people from the boards who I would love to encounter in the game. I know I'm never going to do so because the vagaries of the internet will ensure our connections are never good enough to pass a quality check on Handshake, let alone hold a stable instance. Thats life. Even all the guys setting up guilds may well find that, dependant on geography, network infrastructure, hell just the internet itself they may never be able to see each other.
 
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Many issues with clans/guilds in this game. The game is of such massive size and scope and with fuel to take into consideration how do you plan to tell all members you must remain in an area x number of minutes away from a staging area? No exploring or your to far out and take to long to get back. No long range trading or again to far out to make it back in time. Want to do anything for a few hours be sure it isn't to far away or you miss the call to assemble.

In other words for a clan/guild and expect people to work as a group you can for go the main attraction of the game. Go where you want when you want and as far out as you want. You become instead, go only so far, only when we are not meeting as a clan, and oh don't be to far away as we need you here at certain times.

Sounds way to constricting, but hey go for it, but realize a lot of people see some are being heavy handed in an area, they have 1000's of other locations to scatter to, but not your clan or guild, you scatter as a group, always locked into a tiny bubble of space. No thanks, my bubble is the whole galaxy and not some ultra small subsection to be in a guild/clan. I won't be seeing you and if I do and you attack for no valid reason, I will just travel far enough you will be a very distant memory in time and space.

Calebe

You sound like you've had very unfortunate experiences of guilds / clans in other games before to have such astringent opinions of them, Calebe...if it's of any reassurance to you, I certainly wouldn't be enforcing people in my clan to behave in specific or particular ways, keep to any specific regions of the galaxy nor be insistent that they participate in group activities. That being said, I'd wonder why they'd want to be in my illustrious Chapter of The Black Hand if they weren't people who wanted to do some straight-laced piracy together in the first place (part-time, full-time, solo or in groups is all cool with me).
 
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Hmm...sounds like you really think some "clan" mechanics will be implemented later on. Where does this confidence come from?

From my experience of BBSs, then MUDs, then the advent of faster internet and MMOs; people like being in groups; humans are social beasts; I'm confident it will eventually come because people will want it and it doesn't go against any principle the game is trying to achieve.

The reality is though that even if no in-game mechanic for corps / clans comes, it won't change the behaviour of people finding one another and banding together. The game, even in beta, lends itself well to cooperative / team play to achieve more ambitious goals.
 
Welcome to Elite Dangerous there are a lot of small clans or guilds already in the game if you want to join one I suggest doing a search and picking , a guild with a more varied or larger variety of members that love to play using different play stiles .
I.E. check my sig and take a look at some of the other threads .
There will be pirate clans naval wings trader explorer guilds and so on their is already at least two large , guilds clans large group of friends playing and testing in this way .

Thanks for the info Gen and great of you to list a TS3 server for the ED community; good lad.

One of the wonderful things about life these days is that you have the option of what you want to do. The Black Hand is another option for people; whilst there may already be clans being set up by others, this one's my own and I'd rather build up my own wee community / group, as it has a more personal feel and I think I'll get more from it. I think that, if you can identify with something in a clan, then you feel more at home in it. E.g. I wouldn't join a piracy clan called "Bucaneering Broncos" because it sounds a bit facetious to me, even though I'm sure I'd find a decent bunch of guys in there and be doing similar clan-related activities to my own in TBH.
 
From my experience of BBSs, then MUDs, then the advent of faster internet and MMOs; people like being in groups; humans are social beasts; I'm confident it will eventually come because people will want it and it doesn't go against any principle the game is trying to achieve.

The reality is though that even if no in-game mechanic for corps / clans comes, it won't change the behaviour of people finding one another and banding together. The game, even in beta, lends itself well to cooperative / team play to achieve more ambitious goals.

of course people will band together, be it with ingame support or using other tools.
the difference lies in your last sentence "... to achieve more ambitious goals". so far, there isn't anything requiring bigger, organized groups.


with the implementation of guild mechanics in game, there will be some kind of "need" for guild specific content. that is exactly what would change the whole game.
i couldn't care less if pilots form clans, wings, organisations or whatever you want to call it. some people can't seem to live without it, thats fine by me.
what i don't want though, is turning ED to another EQ, WoW or any other "standard" MMO with "Bossmobs", Raidcontent and anything REQUIRING to join a guild.


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And i'm sorry i took part in derailing your recruitment thread into a discussion, which was not it's intention.
 
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of course people will band together, be it with ingame support or using other tools.
the difference lies in your last sentence "... to achieve more ambitious goals". so far, there isn't anything requiring bigger, organized groups.
with the implementation of guild mechanics in game, there will be some kind of "need" for guild specific content. that is exactly what would change the whole game.
i couldn't care less if pilots form clans, wings, organisations or whatever you want to call it. some people can't seem to live without it, thats fine by me.
what i don't want though, is turning ED to another EQ, WoW or any other "standard" MMO with "Bossmobs", Raidcontent and anything REQUIRING to join a guild.

I've never been fond of raiding in MMOs myself, though that has probably been down to me having too many hobbies / work to do to be able to dedicate the time and effort needed for it. However, and irrespective of how epic one's piloting skills are, it's easier bringing down an Ananconda laden with gold in your sidewinder if you have two wingmen also taking pot-shots at him, and you all come away with full tummies :D

I doubt ED will ever become much like EQ or WoW, due to its limitless and expansive nature.

Last, but by no means least, however much aggro you guys might give us pirates for eating the fruits of your labours, we make the game more exciting, no? :) Without risk / threat looming in the air (or vacuum) you might be better off playing a single-player game, or in offline mode. The last thing I want is to see ED become some risk-free, carebear gaming environment. Let's not forget this is a role-playing game - we're role-playing being 1000 years in the future, where space is mostly wild, unexplored and free; pirates would abound and form groups and do group activities. If you don't want to ever run the risk of being pirated (by a PC at least) then go somewhere where it's safe, distant from civilisation or both. If, however, you want to go where the money is and make quick bucks and run the risk of running into me and my Brother and Sisters in the most odious Chapter of The Black Hand, then by all means spacefare in the better-known (albeit murky-still) areas of the inhabited galaxy.

Pirate Solidarity! Yeah!

http://theblackhand.guildlaunch.com/index.php?gid=412036
 
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Last, but by no means least, however much aggro you guys might give us pirates for eating the fruits of your labours, we make the game more exciting for you :D Without us you might as well go play single player / offline somewhere. The last thing I want is to see ED become some risk-free, carebear gaming environment.

i cut down the quote to the part i want to respond to.

I see it a bit different. I like some PvP now and then but that said i don't think you're making the right assumptions.
Why should i go SP without you?
The only reason for me to go SP would be that i get annoyed by other players. This must not even relate to PvP, but could be.

One Example: I want to cross a system that i know is "owned" by a clan or alliance. They want to cut me off from game content i want to experience. This annoys me. I go SP, cross the system and go back to my normal playing style.
THIS is why people go SP, not "well, since they are no pirates around so i might play solo".
 
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