General / Off-Topic The Covid vaccine must be mandatory ?

[Patrick_68000]

So, has this thread come to any conclusion yet ? Is there a case to be made for mandatory vaccination against COVID19 ?

To me it seems the question has been posted a some kind of rhetorical question . It also seems there is a lot of differing opinions about many points conneected with the Issue .

What do you guys think, we talk about these things again ?

The boss of Moderna recommends a third dose of vaccine at the end of the summer for people at risk.

Injected 3 times in a few months with vaccins on which we have no hindsight, fortunately, the vaccination is not compulsory.

However we can recognize that the boss of Moderna "recommends" but "does not oblige".

 

[Patrick_68000]

Considering that, "by the summer, all adults wishing to be vaccinated will have received a first dose", the boss of Moderna believes that it will then be necessary very quickly to target adolescents from 12 to 17 years old.

This guy is bulimic.

We note here that he specifies however "all adults wishing to be vaccinated"

So the boss of Moderna himself considers that the vaccine is not necessarily mandatory, and that the pandemic is of medium intensity and does not represent a threat of extinction for the humanity on a global scale.

And by using the word "wishing", disclaims any moral responsibility if complications should arise in a few years, and transfers this responsibility to people "who wish" to be vaccinated.

 

[Patrick_68000]

I wonder if the parents will have the choice to vaccinate their teenagers or if the vaccination will be mandatory for these teenagers.

However, it seems logical that the first option will be retained by the authorities.

 

[Gortron]

So, has this thread come to any conclusion yet ? Is there a case to be made for mandatory vaccination against COVID19 ?

To me it seems the question has been posted a some kind of rhetorical question . It also seems there is a lot of differing opinions about many points conneected with the Issue .

What do you guys think, we talk about these things again ?

I’m still pro-vaccines but don’t think they should be compulsory by law (although in some cases employer should be able to insist for continued employment).

Most of the causes of vaccine hesitancy seem to come from social media such as Facebook where complete rubbish is spreading around as facts. Lots of pseudoscience and the like.

The comments section of the Daily Mail is fascinating at the moment. Loads of anti-vaccine comments and most liked comments are anti-vaccine. Stuff like, “I’m not having my second dose if this experimental vaccine”. Or “I got my invitation for a vaccine, ignored”. All with loads of likes.

It’s only in the last month or so that’s been the trend on there. So either people are being influenced against vaccines by social media or the troll farms are at it again. Either way, if people see most other people are against or for something it is going to influence some people.

I’m of the opinion now that at the stage we are in UK, that unless we get another variant that the vaccines don’t work on there should be no more lockdowns. If you haven’t had a vaccine and you get ill, you made your choice.

 

[sewerratuk]

Considering that, "by the summer, all adults wishing to be vaccinated will have received a first dose", the boss of Moderna believes that it will then be necessary very quickly to target adolescents from 12 to 17 years old.

Its good for business

 

[Synkreto]

Its good for business

No doubt . The part of "[...]by summer, alll adults wishing to be vaccinated will have received a first dose." is not true though .

 

[[PS4] Filthymick420]

 

[Synkreto]

View attachment 229754

Thanks, but don't you worry . If my wings fail, I know how to land after a fall .

 

[[PS4] Filthymick420]

I think most will know where that's been direcred. It wasn't you. I don't need any more bans

 

[Arry]

So, has this thread come to any conclusion yet ? Is there a case to be made for mandatory vaccination against COVID19 ?

To me it seems the question has been posted a some kind of rhetorical question . It also seems there is a lot of differing opinions about many points conneected with the Issue .

What do you guys think, we talk about these things again ?

Yep.

Those that don't want it, should be forced to have it.
Those that want it, should have to pay for it.
Those that are not sure about it, should be made to pay, then be forced to have it.
Those that need it, should get in the queue, wait their turn and then, get it for free.

Oh, and don't forget to think of the children and stop quoting any anti-vaxers out there.

 

[Stigbob]

I’m still pro-vaccines but don’t think they should be compulsory by law (although in some cases employer should be able to insist for continued employment).

I'd go with mandatory for most jobs, travel, passports, drivers licences. So indirectly compulsory. I'd happily change my mind if the anti-vaxxers act as a pool of infection though.

Most of the causes of vaccine hesitancy seem to come from social media such as Facebook where complete rubbish is spreading around as facts. Lots of pseudoscience and the like.

The comments section of the Daily Mail is fascinating at the moment. Loads of anti-vaccine comments and most liked comments are anti-vaccine. Stuff like, “I’m not having my second dose if this experimental vaccine”. Or “I got my invitation for a vaccine, ignored”. All with loads of likes.

It’s only in the last month or so that’s been the trend on there. So either people are being influenced against vaccines by social media or the troll farms are at it again. Either way, if people see most other people are against or for something it is going to influence some people.

Since qanons far right great awakening didn't happen (of course) a lot of them have switched to being very anti-vax. As with all their other stuff it's the bonkers swivel eyed extremist version that they've gone with.

The Daily mail is really into scare stories (like the fraudulent MMR autism link) but goes for tiny corrections so the readership is constantly panicking. Which is where they want them as bad news sells is their business model.

So a lot of the anti-vax stuff is actually politically/ideologically driven, with a very thin and unconvincing veneer of pseudoscience dribbled over the top. Similar to the Islamic terrorist opposition to polio vaccine campaigns.

I’m of the opinion now that at the stage we are in UK, that unless we get another variant that the vaccines don’t work on there should be no more lockdowns. If you haven’t had a vaccine and you get ill, you made your choice.

The sort of people who fall for qanon's garbage have been exposed to weapons grade propaganda for years and are mostly mentally ill according to their own defense lawyers.

Daily mail readership are vulnerable as even the moderate right have gone all in on conspiracy theories in recent years so the line of reality has got blurred for them.

The people who get their medical advice on facebook are just thick.

They didn't make a choice they got scammed.

 

[Gortron]

I'd go with mandatory for most jobs, travel, passports, drivers licences. So indirectly compulsory. I'd happily change my mind if the anti-vaxxers act as a pool of infection though.



Since qanons far right great awakening didn't happen (of course) a lot of them have switched to being very anti-vax. As with all their other stuff it's the bonkers swivel eyed extremist version that they've gone with.

The Daily mail is really into scare stories (like the fraudulent MMR autism link) but goes for tiny corrections so the readership is constantly panicking. Which is where they want them as bad news sells is their business model.

So a lot of the anti-vax stuff is actually politically/ideologically driven, with a very thin and unconvincing veneer of pseudoscience dribbled over the top. Similar to the Islamic terrorist opposition to polio vaccine campaigns.



The sort of people who fall for qanon's garbage have been exposed to weapons grade propaganda for years and are mostly mentally ill according to their own defense lawyers.

Daily mail readership are vulnerable as even the moderate right have gone all in on conspiracy theories in recent years so the line of reality has got blurred for them.

The people who get their medical advice on facebook are just thick.

They didn't make a choice they got scammed.

I think it’s a bit more complicated than that. The Daily Mail hasn’t really been running scare stories (with the odd exception) and the opinion pieces are pro-vaccine.

Unfortunately plenty of people seem to trust what they see on Facebook or Twitter over other sources or MSM as people refer to it. I don’t think it’s restricted to the right or stupid. It must be an issue or social media companies wouldn’t be trying to stop it.

 

[Stigbob]

I think it’s a bit more complicated than that. The Daily Mail hasn’t really been running scare stories (with the odd exception) and the opinion pieces are pro-vaccine.

The DM's had a bit of a change of direction recently now it's got a new owner or editor. Predictably accused of "going woke" especially the opinion pieces the comments are full of how the DM's sold out. They still like to run front page scare stories though.

The Daily Mail has turned against the anti-vaxxers it used to champion | Polly Toynbee

As the paper lends its support to a Covid vaccine, don’t forget the damage it once did by backing bogus science, says Guardian columnist Polly Toynbee

www.theguardian.com

Unfortunately plenty of people seem to trust what they see on Facebook or Twitter over other sources or MSM as people refer to it. I don’t think it’s restricted to the right or stupid. It must be an issue or social media companies wouldn’t be trying to stop it.

It's restricted to the gullible which tends to pan out as that and you can roughly sort people into pro and anti vax by them leaning left or right with a high degree of accuracy.

The fix is education about critical thinking and fact checking but that's a generational thing and not something that would be very popular with governments in a post facts society.

“People in this country have had enough of experts” Michael Gove.

 

[Synkreto]

What really makes me wonder, and curious is :

WHO has said sicn iirc February 2020 "Vaccines, IF and when the become available, may not be the SIlver Bullet to end this Pandemic."

IPPPR report says "Vaccination alone will not end this pandemic ."

https://theindependentpanel.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/COVID-19-Make-it-the-Last-Pandemic_final.pdf

Main Report & accompanying work - The Independent Panel for Pandemic Preparedness and Response

Following eight months rigorously examining why COVID-19 became a global health and socio-economic crisis, the Independent Panel presents its findings and recommendations for action to curb the COVID-19 pandemic and to ensure that any future infectious disease outbreak does not become a pandemic.

theindependentpanel.org

What makes these people say that ? How come it seems especially countries which somewhat botched their pandemic response are now counting almost exclusively on Vaccines/vaccinations ?

 

[Arry]

The DM's had a bit of a change of direction recently now it's got a new owner or editor. Predictably accused of "going woke" especially the opinion pieces the comments are full of how the DM's sold out. They still like to run front page scare stories though.

The Daily Mail has turned against the anti-vaxxers it used to champion | Polly Toynbee

As the paper lends its support to a Covid vaccine, don’t forget the damage it once did by backing bogus science, says Guardian columnist Polly Toynbee

www.theguardian.com

It's restricted to the gullible which tends to pan out as that and you can roughly sort people into pro and anti vax by them leaning left or right with a high degree of accuracy.

The fix is education about critical thinking and fact checking but that's a generational thing and not something that would be very popular with governments in a post facts society.

“People in this country have had enough of experts” Michael Gove.

Bigging up the DM and quoting Grove, all in one post. Very interesting.

All it needs, is for you to be blaming the left, for all of the anti-vaxers. Oh wait......

How educating.

 

[Gortron]

What really makes me wonder, and curious is :

WHO has said sicn iirc February 2020 "Vaccines, IF and when the become available, may not be the SIlver Bullet to end this Pandemic."

IPPPR report says "Vaccination alone will not end this pandemic ."

https://theindependentpanel.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/COVID-19-Make-it-the-Last-Pandemic_final.pdf

Main Report & accompanying work - The Independent Panel for Pandemic Preparedness and Response

Following eight months rigorously examining why COVID-19 became a global health and socio-economic crisis, the Independent Panel presents its findings and recommendations for action to curb the COVID-19 pandemic and to ensure that any future infectious disease outbreak does not become a pandemic.

theindependentpanel.org

What makes these people say that ? How come it seems especially countries which somewhat botched their pandemic response are now counting almost exclusively on Vaccines/vaccinations ?

I don’t know. The only thing I can think of that there is a higher risk of a mutation escaping the vaccines whilst they are still being rolled out.

Plenty of people that can get infected and plenty of people that have only partial protection. So a bit like with antibiotics. The doctor tells you to finish all of them even if you get better so all the bacteria die and the ones that didn’t die if you stop early don’t because they are resistant and get passed on.

Until everyone is vaccinated it’s more likely a vaccine resistant strain will emerge and we could be back to square one.

 

[Synkreto]

I don’t know. The only thing I can think of that there is a higher risk of a mutation escaping the vaccines whilst they are still being rolled out.

Plenty of people that can get infected and plenty of people that have only partial protection. So a bit like with antibiotics. The doctor tells you to finish all of them even if you get better so all the bacteria die and the ones that didn’t die if you stop early don’t because resistant and passed on.

Until everyone is vaccinated it’s more likely a vaccine resistant strain will emerge and we could be back to square one.

Ummm....natural infections will still occure, all the while people are getting as many people vaccinated as fast as possible ? High vaccination rates in high incidendce settings actually push for selection towards escape mutations/variants ? Vaccines do not reliably prevent passing on the Virus, especially now already not anymore with some of the Variants ?

 

[Gortron]

Ummm....natural infections will still occure, all the while people are getting as many people vaccinated as fast as possible ? High vaccination rates in high incidendce settings actually push for selection towards escape mutations/variants ? Vaccines do not reliably prevent passing on the Virus, especially now already not anymore with some of the Variants ?

I think so yeah, I’m no expert though. That’s why there is drive vaccinate all the people that don’t really need it for their own safety as it is. Young adults and kids they’d keep passing it around amongst themselves and not really getting ill and eventually a mutation could occur that the vaccines don’t work on, it’s almost certain to happen given long enough I’d of thought. Worse one evolves does make kids and young adults seriously ill.

I think it’s turning out the vaccines are reducing transmission so you are far less likely to pass on the virus if you are vaccinated and infected.

 

[Synkreto]

I think so yeah, I’m no expert though. That’s why there is drive vaccinate all the people that don’t really need it for their own safety as it is. Young adults and kids they’d keep passing it around amongst themselves and not really getting ill and eventually a mutation could occur that the vaccines don’t work on, it’s almost certain to happen given long enough I’d of thought. Worse one evolves does make kids and young adults seriously ill.

I think it’s turning out the vaccines are reducing transmission so you are far less likely to pass on the virus if you are vaccinated and infected.

Last sentence kindof works, questionable thought whether that is "enough" with some of the Variants already circulating .

 

[Stigbob]

Bigging up the DM and quoting Grove, all in one post. Very interesting.

All it needs, is for you to be blaming the left, for all of the anti-vaxers. Oh wait......

How educating.

I didn't big up either of them or blame the left for anything, not sure how you could have come to that conclusion to be honest.

Making assumptions about other peoples politics in threads where actual political opinions are verboten is problematic. Quoting something doesn't mean I agree or approve of either the story or the source.