What do you mean? Aspirin for blood thinning, birth control pills for preventing pregnancy, there are all normal daily medications, blood pressure medication, they all have higher risk factors than the Covid Vaccine. You are getting to the point of trolling if you are going to start arguing there is no such thing as normal daily medication....normal meaning treatments for commonly occurring diseases and conditions that a large part of the population suffer from.
General / Off-Topic The Covid vaccine must be mandatory ?
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What do you mean? Aspirin for blood thinning, birth control pills for preventing pregnancy, there are all normal daily medications, blood pressure medication, they all have higher risk factors than the Covid Vaccine. You are getting to the point of trolling if you are going to start arguing there is no such thing as normal daily medication....normal meaning treatments for commonly occurring diseases and conditions that a large part of the population suffer from.
Well, it's up to you to think being in need for medications is normal,but for me I think if there is there is a normality, than that "normal" means not being in need for medications.
So asking questions is trolling for you? Do you often have the feeling of being "trolled"?So here's the point:
You gonna tell me it's normal to do medications..I question that.
You gonna tell me large part of populations suffers...I questions that.
People telling me they get vaccined to safe me?
I question that.
That's not trolling. That's not anti vaccination propaganda (as I was reading someone mentioned that before).
Thats asking questions.
That's not arguing.
Meaning having an own opinion than yours is arguing?
You are really funny.
But yea I know, damn people always asking questions,questioning people or societies consensus... all "trolls".
So asking questions is trolling for you? Do you often have the feeling of being "trolled"?So here's the point:
You gonna tell me it's normal to do medications..I question that.
You gonna tell me large part of populations suffers...I questions that.
People telling me they get vaccined to safe me?
I question that.
That's not trolling. That's not anti vaccination propaganda (as I was reading someone mentioned that before).
Thats asking questions.
That's not arguing.
Meaning having an own opinion than yours is arguing?
You are really funny.
But yea I know, damn people always asking questions,questioning people or societies consensus... all "trolls".
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You do know what normal means right? It's not that it's normal to take medication, but that some medications are indeed daily normal routine for a lot of people, some people would in fact die without them, more than ever it appears you are trolling by refusing to understand normal language usage. It is in fact normal for a lot of people to take daily medications, like birth control pills, millions of women take birth control pills daily, this is normal usage.
Obviously not remotely a replacement for modern medicine, sanitation, or a little sense. You have pretty much the entire history of civilization as precedent for that.
Their intent is irrelevant if their ignorance and indifference is just as burdensome as their malice.
Same concerns as everyone, but those who refuse to take basic precautions to protect their health, and by extension the health of those they come into contact with, are willfully making this more difficult for everyone, irrespective of any legal restrictions or requirements.
The idea that the vaccines that are readily available are an inferior option to trusting solely in naturally acquired immunity is an exemplar of magical thinking. As is the idea that failure to hold their representatives accountable for whatever is an excuse to one up them in hypocrisy. So is getting medical advice from elected leaders, career politicians, and infotainment media.
That's like saying there are gas masks, industrial particulate capture, water filters, and waste remediation options for those downwind and downstream of me if I decide to burn a pile of garbage on my property and bulldoze whatever is left into the river. Or that it's my neighbor's responsibility to build a rampart to protect themselves from bullets if I decide to orient my firing range in their direction. These are the same kind of entirely ridiculous and one-sided assertions.
We all have a degree of responsibility to not dump our problems on others as long as we need to exist in the same communities and share limited resources with each other. Those that don't acknowledge this are negatively impacting the personal liberties of those around them in an actual, practical, and physical sense...which is far more disruptive and far harder to avoid, than unenforceable legal prohibitions.
I have little sympathy for those expecting me to sacrifice my health, my freedom of movement or interaction, my ability to visit my family without risking their health, for the sake of their aversion to things that impose a far lesser burden on them. I have zero sympathy for those who don't realize that this is what they're doing.
If someone gets sick from something they caught from me, that is on me. It's not your responsibility to mask up or put on a hazmat suit if I am carrying a contagion or have reason to believe that I might be. Call it personal responsibility, common courtesy, or whatever, but don't call the desire to not burden others unnecessarily and the desire for some level or reciprocity in this regard panicked.
None of this started with COVID-19 and it doesn't make much sense to blame the disease for the flaws in people's reactions to it. There will always be people who will claim freedoms for themselves while refusing to extend equal consideration to others.
It's entirely normal to use the tools we have to improve our quality of life, and free or cheap vaccinations that are demonstrably much lower risk than what they protect against, are part of that, yes.
Not sure what I could say to convince someone that communicable diseases, including COVID-19, cause a great deal of suffering if they haven't been able to come to this conclusion on their own.
Likewise, the reactions to disease that many people rightly see as inconvenient or objectionable impositions are much less justifiable, and much less likely to be forcibly imposed, when transmission of the disease is properly managed.
You're part of someone's community and you being a reservoir for communicable disease harms them, as does any illness that makes you a burden to the systems they also rely upon.
I don't believe in altruism either. I believe in enlightened self-interest. I don't want you sick because I don't want to get sick from you, nor for anyone I personally care about to get sick from either of us. I don't want you wasting a valuable hospital bed, or (by any number of degrees of separation) the tax dollars that have been extorted from me, that might go to better use. So, the buck stops with me. I will not do things that are likely to infect others with any pathogen I think I might have, because I don't want it coming back to me in some way, because it will come back to me in some way.
I also believe in reciprocity...societies run on it because they have to. We can't kill everyone we don't like and can't like everyone that's useful. So, we compromise and we tolerate, but only so far.
Of course, I don't rely on reciprocity, or expect anyone to be enlightened, and it doesn't surprise me when people are just greedy-selfish, without any concept of, or concern for, the harm they cause.
I totally agree on that. I believe in enlightened self interest too. All I do I do it for myself. I want you to stay healthy too. But if I decide to get a Covid vaccination I decide that for my own interest. Not for others. Just for me. Totally logic, right?
But I am free to refuse created social boundaries.
I already heard that kind of argumentation in history classes in Germany.
Society über alles,everyone got to work for the higher goal. There are historical examples for where this kind of thinking leads to.
Anyways I have been warned to discuss in this thread cause someone reported me
So wish you a good day.
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Not even remotely close to the same argument.
You've confused not being a needless burden to those around you with some sort of fascist organization that subsumes individual will to arbitrary dictates of the community.
No. I never said this. I literally said
"I already heard that kind of argumentation in history classes in Germany.
Society über alles,everyone got to work for the higher goal. There are historical examples for where this kind of thinking leads to."
But I am glad you didn't said this kind of thinking leads to democratic freedom.
Thanks for this clarification.
Anyway. Wish you a good day
(I should have mentioned there was also a communist government in Germany. Also I should have mentioned that my family came to this land from the former communist country Yugoslavia.)
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A hundred years ago it was “Coughs And Sneezes Spread Diseases, Trap Them In Your Handkerchiefs-es” and masking up is just the modern hands-free way of doing that.
I’m fully vaccinated and boosted, and last year I developed mild COVID symptoms the day after attending a wedding - which meant I was asymptomatic while there. I warned everyone I could and within a few days a few members of my family tested positive and a few had mild symptoms. The new in-laws turned out to not believe in COVID vaccines and every one of them became infected and several had a rough time of it.
I was, and still am, ashamed and embarrassed that I caused it all. I’m just glad no one died of it, though a few folk (myself included) have had Long COVID problems since. I can’t understand the mindset of those who care naught about people they live around when the consequences can be so serious.
Perhaps it needs to be put in simple terms for them?
I’m fully vaccinated and boosted, and last year I developed mild COVID symptoms the day after attending a wedding - which meant I was asymptomatic while there. I warned everyone I could and within a few days a few members of my family tested positive and a few had mild symptoms. The new in-laws turned out to not believe in COVID vaccines and every one of them became infected and several had a rough time of it.
I was, and still am, ashamed and embarrassed that I caused it all. I’m just glad no one died of it, though a few folk (myself included) have had Long COVID problems since. I can’t understand the mindset of those who care naught about people they live around when the consequences can be so serious.
Perhaps it needs to be put in simple terms for them?
I can't understand why people attend at weddings while there was a pandemic.
How you know you caused this, when you had symptoms a day after the wedding?
Did you already attended with symptoms?
Or did you got infected at the wedding by others?Cause than you didn't caused that, right?
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This was late last year well after all social restrictions in my country had been lifted. I developed symptoms the day after the wedding (I initially thought it was a bad hangover
) which meant I must’ve been infected several days beforehand - and a person can be infectious during that period. All the other guests (and one half of the happy couple) tested positive several days after the event, in line with the virus incubation period.I dearly wish I’d tested myself prior to attending the wedding but I didn’t have any reason to believe I’d picked up the virus - after 2.5 years of taking precautions I’d not been ill at all since the whole thing kicked off.
Robert Maynard
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Reminder to avoid all political discussions. Thanks.
The whole thread is about mandatories. So close this thread if this is too political for forum standards then.
To be honest.. That's why I stay at home.This was late last year well after all social restrictions in my country had been lifted. I developed symptoms the day after the wedding (I initially thought it was a bad hangover
I dearly wish I’d tested myself prior to attending the wedding but I didn’t have any reason to believe I’d picked up the virus - after 2.5 years of taking precautions I’d not been ill at all since the whole thing kicked off.
I believe vaccined people spreading the Covid virus more often.
Robert Maynard
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Abide by the forum rules when participating in the thread, or refrain from participating in the thread.
Fine. I guess that's what I do in a thread where mandatories are discussed. Thanks.
And I believe unvaccinated people spread a hell of a lot more infectious viral load than vaccinated people, and for a longer period.
You are free to believe whatever you want to believe. I am unvaccinated, never had Covid. How often did you had covid?but hey... Yaaai.. Science.
Let's make a statistic to validate.
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I believe it because I know I’m not a subject matter expert - so I read the reports of people who are and follow their advice. Stuff like this:
Infectious viral load in unvaccinated and vaccinated individuals infected with ancestral, Delta or Omicron SARS-CoV-2 - Nature Medicine
The infectious viral load of SARS-CoV-2 Omicron BA.1 is lower than that of Delta in symptomatic breakthrough infections of recipients of two doses of a COVID-19 vaccine, suggesting that the higher transmission of Omicron BA.1 is not linked to higher infectious viral load.
www.nature.com
I have, to the best of my knowledge, had COVID once since it all started circa January 2020. I tested myself intermittently over the 2.5 year period from then as my daughter worked in an essential job and wasn’t subject to lockdown - thankfully she never caught anything. Since my infection last year I have tested myself prior going on long journeys via train to visit family and have always been clear.
Sure. Had a flew like 3 times in the past years. Tested everytime.
Also as a musician (started a new band during the pandemic, recorded an album which got international feedback)i was tested several times before concerts, when my band was booked.
During the pandemic I worked in a company for a friend of me. Me and my friend were the only employers and testet regularly. I am 100% honest with you. Every test I did the result was that I am free from Covid. Never had Covid.
But as I said. I mostly stay at home.
I lived the getting wasted every weekend at the bar and sticking my pp in every h**e life years ago already. I don't care about movie theaters, Christmas markets, fancy shopping temples. I like being home.
And yea I refused invitations to weddings, family meetings etc etc despite the fact that I knew people would get angry because of this.
Why? Because I am the center of my reality. I am responsible for my own health. When I realized that years ago already, I realized that safety is more an illusion.
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Are you testing for several days after you develop symptoms? The more recent strains, LFTs can often give false negatives for the first couple of days even while symptomatic.
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