The Dance of Pirate and Traders. Advice for both parties

[Sandmann]

You don't really speak for traders.

And nor do you speak for... ummm... people who claim they're not pirates or whatever it is you say you are.

Some people like the challenge just for the sake of it, they will always choose Open.

So, you find a T9 with no weapons a challenge in your death ship?

The people that don't really enjoy that concept don't really need to be encouraged into open (is that even the point of this thread?) They are fine where they are.

Riiight, coz the last thing we want is MORE people playing in open, right?

- - - Updated - - -

Why not just give monetary bonuses to those players willing to trade in Open? Something simple like a +X% bonus on trades could well make it tempting enough for traders to risk the threat of piracy.

If I have a T9 loaded with something valuable and you have ooh, I dunno, say a vulture... you can wipe out millions of credits worth of stuff for me and put me back weeks or months in my personal progress, just for your fun of seeing a T9 go pop. So with that in mind, what sort of a percentage of bonus were you thinking of for trading in open?

 

[fademist]

Because then he is playing euro truck simulator: space edition, instead of elite: Dangerous. For better or worse pirates are part of Elite.

still u didnt answer the question..try again....

 

[Jack Schitt]

If I have a T9 loaded with something valuable and you have ooh, I dunno, say a vulture... you can wipe out millions of credits worth of stuff for me and put me back weeks or months in my personal progress, just for your fun of seeing a T9 go pop. So with that in mind, what sort of a percentage of bonus were you thinking of for trading in open?

That's always going to be the ultimate hurdle really isn't it? We all like to think that the universal yardstick in this game is Credits, but it's not.

It's time.

And as long as one person has the freedom to spend a couple of minutes of their time undoing thousands of minutes of someone else's, there's a problem. I'm not sure there's an answer for that, other than my old favourite of impounding the warships of caught criminals and forcing them to waste some of their time on mundane tasks in a trading shuttle. But we know FD would never go for that because it's forcing a play style on what should be a free form choice.

 

[fademist]

Because there are people that want ED to be more than a trucking simulator in space

thank god that npc pirates is better then

 

[Dogoncrook]

And nor do you speak for... ummm... people who claim they're not pirates or whatever it is you say you are.



So, you find a T9 with no weapons a challenge in your death ship?



Riiight, coz the last thing we want is MORE people playing in open, right?

Lol did I say I was any type of player? Did I say I did the hunting? It's pretty clear you just don't get open, so trying to act like you care or have some sort of altruistic desire to see it improved is laughable.

 

[Sandmann]

Lol did I say I was any type of player? Did I say I did the hunting?

Hang on.. YOU started with the "you don't speak for"... no I didn't say I did either. Don't turn that back on me. And no, in fact you've been pretty vague about WHERE you stand... first you claim you're not a pirate, now you're not a hunter, but you play in open for a challenge, and -I- don't get open? Seriously? Got commitment issues?

It's pretty clear you just don't get open, so trying to act like you care or have some sort of altruistic desire to see it improved is laughable.

So you actually have anything to contribute to this, or are you just here to randomly criticise?

 

[Jockey79]

And jockey is right, (never thought I'd say those words )

Glad I was sitting down, hope the rest of my week goes this well

I personally prefer *really, usefull* correct, rather than *technically, pedantically*.

"really, usefull" can be and often is ambiguous, misleading or full of grey areas. When dealing with the written word that has no supporting facial expressions or emphasis from sound,
all we have left is what has been "technically" written for clarification and context of the conversation.

There all ready is lots of misunderstandings floating about the forums because people use expressions or analogies that are often open to interpretation.
Then people end up arguing over the context of the words used and not what was meant, because what was meant was lost in translation of the cold hard words on a PC screen.

And this is the rub. As a pirate you DON'T have the tools to commit piracy in any way other than potentially fatally for the victim.

This is not exactly true is it.

Player pirates successfully commit acts of piracy everyday in Elite: Dangerous without killing the victim. PotatoOverdose has a 60/40 success rate we are lead to believe.
So pirates DO HAVE the tools to do it, it's more to do with if they can be bothered to do it right or just be lazy and blow people up who do not roll over right away.
Sure more tools for pirates to make it a bit easier for the lazy pirate, to curb their trigger finger. But don't pretend it cannot be done when it clearly is - there are even threads created by victims of piracy on this forum to congratulate those who put the extra effort in and make the encounter run smoothly and fun for all involved.

Also, did you read the opening post? You know, the one that is giving advice to help both parties make the encounter run more smoothly for all involved.
The thread topic that is set by the OP is giving advice to help both sides so everyone walks away from an interdiction without hard feelings or ship loss - it's not about changing the system or moaning about how the system currently works. You may want to keep that in mind next time you want to tell someone else not to go "off topic" - as I've not seen you post "on topic" yet.
As for your ideas, if you make a thread that has the topic of improving the tools and systems in place for piracy I'd be happy to comment, but in this thread - it's off topic.

 

[Sandmann]

That's always going to be the ultimate hurdle really isn't it? We all like to think that the universal yardstick in this game is Credits, but it's not.

It's time.

That's it. Sure credits are a way of keeping score, but it's the investment of time that really matters.

And as long as one person has the freedom to spend a couple of minutes of their time undoing thousands of minutes of someone else's, there's a problem. I'm not sure there's an answer for that, other than my old favourite of impounding the warships of caught criminals and forcing them to waste some of their time on mundane tasks in a trading shuttle. But we know FD would never go for that because it's forcing a play style on what should be a free form choice.

There's ways... if you know the areas of space that are risky and those that are safe you can manage your risk, but right now there's no "lawful" and "anarchy" space, it's all just one big anarchy really so the only way to risk manage is to fall back to group/solo. There's always a few people who jack up at the idea of imposing any sort of order and consequence on the game. Hopefully SC will be released sooner or later and they'll all just slither off there.

 

[Sandmann]

This is not exactly true is it.

Player pirates successfully commit acts of piracy everyday in Elite: Dangerous without killing the victim. PotatoOverdose has a 60/40 success rate we are lead to believe.
So pirates DO HAVE the tools to do it, it's more to do with if they can be bothered to do it right or just be lazy and blow people up who do not roll over right away.
Sure more tools for pirates to make it a bit easier for the lazy pirate, to curb their trigger finger. But don't pretend it cannot be done when it clearly is - there are even threads created by victims of piracy on this forum to congratulate those who put the extra effort in and make the encounter run smoothly and fun for all involved.

He's developed his own tactics that rely on the other player to cooperate, which then allows him to blame those who aren't interested for their own loss and absolve himself of it. That is NOT the same as providing tools to facilitate non-fatal piracy. Oh and where exactly did I "pretend that it could not be done", please point me to that remark I made. Of course it can be done if the victim cooperates. I'm talking about the ability to commit piracy regardless of cooperation and without the need for fatality. You know, the thing that makes it piracy instead of donations.

If they were to put in real consequences for "murder" they'd also need to balance that with tools for non-fatal piracy - it'd be a death knell to (genuine) player piracy to fail to do so. Look at my suggestion in it's entirety, not just in individual pieces - it all works together.

You may want to keep that in mind next time you want to tell someone else not to go "off topic" - as I've not seen you post "on topic" yet.
As for your ideas, if you make a thread that has the topic of improving the tools and systems in place for piracy I'd be happy to comment, but in this thread - it's off topic.

My replies were on topic to other replies, and I don't remember telling anyone in this thread not to go "off topic"? Did you perhaps read the second post in the thread? If you've got a problem with the branch this thread has taken take it up with the poster of that coz that's where my reply came from, however I believe that what I've been posting IS about improving the pirate/trader relationship which is the broad subject of this thread, no? You can be sure that next time I need someone to judge whether I'm on topic or not I'll keep you in mind though.

 

[Jockey79]

My replies were on topic to other replies, and I don't remember telling anyone in this thread not to go "off topic"? Did you perhaps read the second post in the thread? If you've got a problem with the branch this thread has taken take it up with the poster of that coz that's where my reply came from, however I believe that what I've been posting IS about improving the pirate/trader relationship which is the broad subject of this thread, no? You can be sure that next time I need someone to judge whether I'm on topic or not I'll keep you in mind though.

Then you're off topic. This thread is about player piracy and player trading, specifically.

The thread is about giving advice to one or both sides.
All you've done post about changing the current system - which this thread is not about.

 

[Jeroboam]

I'd make a simple change; all profits from all activities in Solo play are subject to a 50% tax. Playing in Solo becomes safe but slow - low risk/low reward.
If it took twice as long to reach a monetary goal in Solo, would it still be an attractive game-mode?

 

[goemon]

giving advice to help both parties make the encounter run more smoothly for all involved.

uh, where has this thread evolved to? i liked the approach of collecting tools for both sides, because, like some others have shown in here, it's totally possible to balance your risk for a loss as a trader, even if you are flying not a cobra, clipper or anaconda, while it is totally possible to pirate in open succesfully.

i'm very much for changing the tools and changing the mechanics (like system security responses, cutting throat risks for those cutting throats, cargo hatch hackers etc.), but my impression from these forums is, that one of the main problems is

as it is knowledge of game mechanics are lacking from both sides in many encounters, and spreading this knowledge/collecting tools/learning about perspectives helps.

for traders it helps to balance their risks and not to feel like a helpless victim. you'll loose on rare occasions, but you will successfully flee many times - what a feeling!

i think for pirates it helps to understand, why several legit tactics are not succesfull.

 

[Daffan]

Frontier needs to increase the wing trade bonus in open play and open play only (more on this, a good reason)

This will incentivize having escorts and other traders in the same wing for mutual protection and friendship.

Currently, it is pointless for a trader to have an escort or other players in their wing even in open because the other people don't get worthy compensation (Currently it's only a 5% bonus or so - NOT A CUT from traders profit). This is why there is no escorts or team work in open and traders get butchered

The reason i said open only is because if they give a buff to the trade bonus, everyone will just make 4 player wings in private and the trade bonus will be OP as hell and escort gameplay will still be dead.

If you trade in open, you are taking on way more risk for no reason. And escorts are pointless because people feel it's a waste of time. This helps fix the problem.

 

[goemon]

I'd make a simple change; all profits from all activities in Solo play are subject to a 50% tax. Playing in Solo becomes safe but slow - low risk/low reward.
If it took twice as long to reach a monetary goal in Solo, would it still be an attractive game-mode?

i think many people fail to understand why people play solo. there are many reasons. i mainly play open, especially around community goals. but sometimes switch to group and sometimes switch to solo. i go to solo for the following reasons: a) quality of screenshots b) internet connections c) moving my fleet d) because i had a long working day with a lot of social interaction and i just want to relax flying around e) testing the game mechanics ... and i guess there are many more.

but maybe we better discuss about the OP before this thread get merged with the open vs. solo thread....

 

[khaitom]

The person who pulls you over to kill you is not a pirate.

And how are traders meant to know you aren't just a player killer before deciding to throttle down?

If I throttle down, the vast majority if times I get bolwn up.
If I boost and run, the vast majority of times I survive.
You, as they say in America, do the math.

While pirates are indistinguishable from PKers, and both pirates and PKers can fly around with no bounties and no risk, this conversation will crop up again and again and be just as pointless.

Some pirates seem to want to turn the game into Euro Tax-collector Stimulator. Every 5 trade runs the trader waits for you in supercruise to be interdicted and give away x% of their cargo for nothing. No risk, no danger, no fun. Brilliant.

Traders should be able to run, fight back, or even escape without being put on a "kill on sight" list if piracy isn't going to just deteriorate into the 'excitement' of mining rocks that don't bother to fight back.

 

[Sandmann]

The thread is about giving advice to one or both sides.
All you've done post about changing the current system - which this thread is not about.

Looking at two the above posts, it would appear your concerns are baseless. I will therefore continue to disregard them.

Feel free to contact me with any other concerns you may wish me to disregard.

 

[Anopheles]

A fun solution could be tethers/grappling hooks fired by Harpoon (obvs) that has a hefty cool down and only works on smaller ships than the launcher. Even if shields need to be down, this would mean less damage and less chance of accidental death while trying to knock out engines (we've all done it).

Add that to proper security response (why is this taking so long, when it seems to be a simple matter of if sec=1 then response = 1. I know its more complex than that, but not much more?) and that could help both sides.

 

[Jockey79]

Looking at two the above posts, it would appear your concerns are baseless. I will therefore continue to disregard them.

Feel free to contact me with any other concerns you may wish me to disregard.

That's fine, you continue to derail the thread until it gets locked.

Just keep in mind should you start a thread, others get to do it back. What goes around.....

 

[Sandmann]

That's fine, you continue to derail the thread until it gets locked.

Just keep in mind should you start a thread, others get to do it back. What goes around.....

Yeah, coz that's never happened to me before.

 

[Iain M Norman]

Handbags people, Handbags. Lower them a little.

Or I'll get mine out, and it's where I keep my hammer.