Ships The diamondback feedback (and argument summary).

[GlyphGryph]

That's a fair point, but I think it's more of a minor issue than what we have to work with as a "combat explorer" now. Upgrading to high-end components is expensive starting out either way you look at it. I imagine most people just move on before maxing much of anything out on low to mid level capable ships.

It would also greatly increase it's storage capacity, if a player was so inclined, which wouldn't really fit the ship.

If anything, I feel like maybe Frontier should just improve the efficiency of fuel scoops across the board, hah, rather than try to fix the time it rakes to refuel on this one ship.

 

[Starender]

just did another trip in it, the shield is... problematic

 

[LKx]

I fell very unlikely that they would promote a module bay to size 4, so i think that even just add a class 1 module bay would make it less disadvantaged as exploration/combat hybrid ship, or even as exploration ship, compared to the cobra.

 

[Nerdicus]

just did another trip in it, the shield is... problematic

Agreed, you can only fly away from so many hits before they catch up to you.

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I fell very unlikely that they would promote a module bay to size 4, so i think that even just add a class 1 module bay would make it less disadvantaged as exploration/combat hybrid ship, or even as exploration ship, compared to the cobra.

That's the problem, at twice the cost of the Cobra, it shouldn't be disadvantaged at all.

 

[Kongou]

100% agree and hope that more of the community would support these possible changes to the Diamondback.

 

[Starender]

That's the problem, at twice the cost of the Cobra, it shouldn't be disadvantaged at all.

at twice the price, it should be a better Cobra

 

[WR3ND]

It would also greatly increase it's storage capacity, if a player was so inclined, which wouldn't really fit the ship.

If anything, I feel like maybe Frontier should just improve the efficiency of fuel scoops across the board, hah, rather than try to fix the time it rakes to refuel on this one ship.

Yeah, it would increase the capacity potential a bit, but even then, is someone really going to use this as a trading ship, especially without decent shields and a decent fuel scoop? It would still seem rather absurd for the role when there are better options.

You do make another good point though (likely inadvertently). Take the difference in cargo capacity weight that's added and subtract that from the weight of the ship to get that bit of extra jump distance while we're at it.

As for buffing fuel scoops in general... I'm not sure. It would kind of make the higher end ones pointless. I don't think they really need to be buffed, since it isn't a widespread issue really, except for the Diamondback.

 

[Nerdicus]

at twice the price, it should be a better Cobra

It should be a better fighter/explorer than the Cobra (the Cobra's internals still give it other advantages). I don't have a problem with a smaller shield, but at least give me more weapons capacity. If the Cobra is a better tank platform, than make me a better weapons platform. The DB has a fantastic weapons grouping, but I can't fire it for more than a few seconds (the same as the Cobra). So upgrade my coupling, and let me fire longer to overcome his tank. As for exploration, my style lets me go with a smaller scoop (I can see the argument for a bigger scoop), but that extra level 1 internal is an absolute must.

 

[Leoben Capa]

There is one drawback to upgrading the size of the shield though - cost. A size 4 shield is significantly more expensive than a size 3 one, and in many ways the Diamondback is obviously intended to be a "budget" ship (look at that exposed wiring!). The splitting of one of the internal compartments is a no brainer, though.

There's also the increased power draw. I've already planned out a combat load out for the DB where certain modules will have to be shut off once the hard points are deployed. With a class 4 shield generator I'd have to make more cuts.
I'd much rather have a class 4 power distributor.

 

[Derthek]

[redacted]

 

[Nerdicus]

There's also the increased power draw. I've already planned out a combat load out for the DB where certain modules will have to be shut off once the hard points are deployed. With a class 4 shield generator I'd have to make more cuts.
I'd much rather have a class 4 power distributor.

Completely agree. A class 4 shield adds another .56MJ of needed power, and you still have to charge the thing. A class 4 coupling only needs another .07MJ, but completely changes my fighting style from that of a tank to that of constantly pressing the attack. Now if they really wanted to make the DB "Death Incarnate", they'd give us a level 5 coupling... yes, I'll take that please.

 

[himurastewie]

<snip>
(a) This gameplay style is currently not supported by the game. It would be silly for the devs to add a ship to support a non-existent playstyle, and more importantly,
<snip>

Orca.

I kid. Really +1 for the whole post. I'm an advocate for splitting up that C2 as well, I'm just not sure FDev is hearing us. I'm ambivalent about upgrading a C3 to a C4, though I see the sense in it. I'd obviously be quite pleased if that were the case and I think it would create even more flexibility and would certainly keep it competitive with a Cobra for combat/exploration, while keeping it far below a Cobra's cargo running capacity. If they're open to a change, and that change is a tossup between 2x C1s, or upgrading a slot to a C4 I'm ok with keeping it limited to C3s, but it really, really desperately needs at least 5 internal slots. If they're dead-set on keeping the internal configuration as-is though, they really need to consider adding a combo scanner that will act as both an ADS and a DSS that fits into a C2. I'm just not sure it's going to happen, given the limited responses I've been seeing about non-bug related changes to the new ships.

I really hope they listen (or at least provide their reasoning for the decision to be so inflexible about the internals. The Cobra suffers no such penalty, and is otherwise par with the DB in relevant aspects for less money) because then the Diamondback will be my go-to ship without any reservations on my part. If it stays the same, I'm always going to look at that C2 with a stink-eye.

 

[Ziljan]

Orca.
.

I forgot about that red headed step child. Not to mention the Drop Ship... Yeah, with that perspective, I am thinking the DB is pretty much screwed for exploring. Oh well. There is always next patch.

 

[himurastewie]

I forgot about that red headed step child. Not to mention the Drop Ship... Yeah, with that perspective, I am thinking the DB is pretty much screwed for exploring. Oh well. There is always next patch.

I haven't flown one, but I hear the Driftship is quite nice once you're used to it. It doesn't really have a well defined place, per se, but it at least it doesn't force such a major compromise as the Dback does. I just can't come up with a good reason for that damned C2 internal in the Diamondback, though. Combat pilots are just going to fill it with either a cargo rack for 'retrieve small number of <illegal thing> and bring it back to me' bulletin board missions, or yet another SCB. Explorers are going to under-utilize it, and a C3 for their scanners while having plenty of time to cultivate a long gray beard and become salty about not having room for an AFMU while they wait for the gas tank to fill up.

It just feels like they didn't put a lot of gameplay design time into this ship. They basically just took the Viper, changed the armor and shield values, +1ed some of the internals and called it a day. The physical design is fantastic, imo, and it's a shame they attached it to an unnecessarily hobbled ship. ONE small, completely lateral change will make a world of difference. One small change and a small upgrade will make a galaxy of difference to the overall usability and longevity of this ship.

The lack of response is becoming a little frustrating. I'd be happy (but disappointed) with a simple "We're not changing it, now be quiet" so we can all move on.

 

[puca]

FD should pay attention to how Greg Street (ex-Blizzard, now at Riot) used to handle these things. Smart guy, Greg Street.

 

[Ziljan]

It just feels like they didn't put a lot of gameplay design time into this ship. They basically just took the Viper, changed the armor and shield values, +1ed some of the internals and called it a day. The physical design is fantastic, imo, and it's a shame they attached it to an unnecessarily hobbled ship. ONE small, completely lateral change will make a world of difference. One small change and a small upgrade will make a galaxy of difference to the overall usability and longevity of this ship.

The lack of response is becoming a little frustrating. I'd be happy (but disappointed) with a simple "We're not changing it, now be quiet" so we can all move on.

ha! That would be terrible if it were true. It feels true, but I hope like hell it isn't. Btw, they released patch note changes, and not a word about the DB except the maneuverability typo correction. Maybe we should take a hint? I will be kind of heartbroken if I am stuck in my Asp for exploring. I have been pinning my hopes on the DB since the first artist image came out. I even learned to love the new ugly nose.

 

[himurastewie]

ha! That would be terrible if it were true. It feels true, but I hope like hell it isn't. Btw, they released patch note changes, and not a word about the DB except the maneuverability typo correction. Maybe we should take a hint? I will be kind of heartbroken if I am stuck in my Asp for exploring. I have been pinning my hopes on the DB since the first artist image came out. I even learned to love the new ugly nose.

Asp is a nice ship, but too big for my personal tastes. I have enough Cr to buy one and give it some moderate outfitting but I just have a hard time liking it. That and the outline looks kind of like a stink bug.

Back to the Dback though, if you look at the internals, the Dback is really just +1 on the plant, thrusters, FSD, and +2 on the tank. The internals are +1 for the two smaller modules (Viper is 2x C3, 1x C2, 1x C1). So yeah, it feels kind of like a copypasta of the Viper with some mild upgrades of some of the internals. Other stats: cruise speed is about -20, and boost speed is about -4. Armor is ~+90, shields are ~-40. Think Cobra and Viper had a lovechild, strapped some armor on it and you're basically there.

To be fair to FDev, the outfitting scheme they're working with doesn't give them a whole lot of flexibility when it comes to designing ships. The fixed internals are more or less where they should be for its projected price. Cobra has larger sensors(still not sure what the purpose is, besides weight) and life support (Cobra is a larger ship, makes sense from an RP perspective). The non-fixed internals are really grating my nerves though. It's Viper class all around, basically, which really I'm fine with. Yeah, a bigger scoop or bigger shield would be appreciated, but only having four modules is really driving me up the wall. It just feels really short-sighted and is forcing far too much compromise for the ship's price class. The fixed module layout is solidly in the multirole camp, but the non-fixed is just baffling.

Hopefully they'll at least acknowledge that there's a desire for logical, non-OP changes to bring the ship more in line with others in its price class, but at this point I'm not keeping my hopes up. The ship will find a spot in my hangar.. whether or not it finds my CMDR's butt seated in it is another consideration altogether.

 

[waimser]

As someone planning to use the DB as my only ship now that I have reset save, I like it the way it is. With the current internals, it allows for a SCB, 8 cargo, and a 2A fuel scoop, perfect for a combat runabout capable of running fetch and smuggle missions as well.
Having to drop to a 1A fuel scoop would mean an monsterous 6minutes or more to refill the tank, OUCH! While I admit, I shouldnt really need a scoop with the sise of the fuel tank, I still like having one on board for if I need to run away fast and far without stopping.

OP makes very good points though. With the current configuration of internals, the DB really isnt a good explorer at all. I have to agree that changing the size 2, to two size 1's is needed if this ship is to be called an explorer in any capacity.
I disagree about needing the size 4 slot though. It really needs to stay as a 3 to keep the cost of outfitting it for combat as low as possible. If it becomes more expensive to outfit than it currently is, then it really does become a pointless ship. It needs to stay as cheap as possible or noone will use it.

 

[Ziljan]

With the current configuration of internals, the DB really isnt a good explorer at all. I have to agree that changing the size 2, to two size 1's is needed if this ship is to be called an explorer in any capacity.
I disagree about needing the size 4 slot though. It really needs to stay as a 3 to keep the cost of outfitting it for combat as low as possible. If it becomes more expensive to outfit than it currently is, then it really does become a pointless ship. It needs to stay as cheap as possible or noone will use it.

Tonight, I tested out the Class 3A fuel scoop on a Class 4 FSD and just getting around the Bubble wasinsanely slow by any standard, never mind exploration. Refueling just 3T of fuel (one jumps worth) took longer than it takes my FdL to refuel and jump twice. And the FdL is considered to be biggest pain the game to travel with.

You can keep the class 1 slot. Repair modules are just extra gravy. The Fuel Scoop is bone and sinew. Without it an exploration ship is hoping around on one leg.


Another possible change they could make is to allow you slot 2 fuel scoops at once. Two class 3 fuel scoops would do just fine. I would rather have less slots and more fuel scooping than a repair module.

 

[WR3ND]

As someone planning to use the DB as my only ship now that I have reset save, I like it the way it is. With the current internals, it allows for a SCB, 8 cargo, and a 2A fuel scoop, perfect for a combat runabout capable of running fetch and smuggle missions as well.
Having to drop to a 1A fuel scoop would mean an monsterous 6minutes or more to refill the tank, OUCH! While I admit, I shouldnt really need a scoop with the sise of the fuel tank, I still like having one on board for if I need to run away fast and far without stopping.

OP makes very good points though. With the current configuration of internals, the DB really isnt a good explorer at all. I have to agree that changing the size 2, to two size 1's is needed if this ship is to be called an explorer in any capacity.
I disagree about needing the size 4 slot though. It really needs to stay as a 3 to keep the cost of outfitting it for combat as low as possible. If it becomes more expensive to outfit than it currently is, then it really does become a pointless ship. It needs to stay as cheap as possible or noone will use it.

I'm not really getting that logic. You use something if it's good enough to use or not. People will pay for things as long as they're useful. The problem with the Diamondback as it is now is that it isn't really useful enough for exploration for anyone, regardless of price. It could be free, but that wouldn't make it a halfway decent exploration ship.

I guess if they don't intend for it to be an exploration ship, then that's that, but don't go calling it one and getting people's hopes up.