The Difference Between PvP and "Griefing"

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

And people can defend using the same methods, that's called "equality" - ain't it grand

No, its not grand. Its a time vs time battle. If it was grand. People wouldnt be complaining about powerplay.

And Hotel california thread wouldnt exist in the first place.

 

[DukeIronHand]

Anything and everything else not effecting player groups or powerplay.

Once again, if people left Open and joined a group like Mobius for PVE content only. Then they shouldnt be able to effect others through PVE content.

When the game first started, Powerplay and Player factions did not exist. And it was not an issue at that time.

Now that we have those things. People can attack Player factions ships and fight over territory using the BGS with no risk to them. But they left Open so they couldnt be effected or "griefed". But they have no problems effecting others and claiming its PVE content.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3jCC13prXo <~ THIS PROVES THE WHOLE POINT. Hes PVEing with intent to effect another player faction. End of story. Its PVP by proxy.

But its the bigger picture. Its why Powerplay is in the dumps. And the reason we dont have "meaningful pvp". We either have 1v1's or traders crying because they got shot at.

Wow. So, in other words, this is another PvP attempt, to put a point on it, to force everyone into Open...again.
So someone not in Open really can't do anything per you. Except explore. No wait, gotta hand in that data somewhere. Might up the BGS for someone. Can't mine because I do have to sell my ore somewhere. Don't want to effect the station controlling factions BGS %. Guess that rules out trading and missions too.

I have a better idea. You play your game and I'll play mine. How about you provide your own content and targets if you are so bored with the game. I don't wish to play with you or your like-minded ilk. PvP your behind off in Open and leave others to play whatever Mode they want. Solo, PG, Open as the game was designed.
I paid for my game and wish to play my game. You play yours.

 

[Jockey79]

No, its not grand. Its a time vs time battle. If it was grand. People wouldnt be complaining about powerplay.

And Hotel california thread wouldnt exist in the first place.

Different topics for a start, this thread is about "griefing" not PP or SOG4.

PP was from the start an exercise in "token" pushing - so it has always been a PvE (or Indirect PvP if you prefer) game.
Those complaining in SOG are pew pew heads running out of people to shoot - nothing more.

As for "griefing" - I find that hard to understand in Elite, as we can choose via game modes and through blocking players, who we actually play with.
So I fail to see how anyone can be an honest target of "griefing" when at any time they can block the player(s) they wish to avoid or hop into a group of just friends and carry on.

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

Different topics for a start, this thread is about "griefing" not PP or SOG4.

PP was from the start an exercise in "token" pushing - so it has always been a PvE (or Indirect PvP if you prefer) game.
Those complaining in SOG are pew pew heads running out of people to shoot - nothing more.

As for "griefing" - I find that hard to understand in Elite, as we can choose via game modes and through blocking players, who we actually play with.
So I fail to see how anyone can be an honest target of "griefing" when at any time they can block the player(s) they wish to avoid or hop into a group of just friends and carry on.

Again you like to take little snippets of what I say and then argue semantics about it to try and prove your point. Its gone no where.

The games evolved since the kick starter. There were no powerplay factions and there were no player factions to start with.

Game balancing is more important than the guys in the kick starter. If its PVP activity it should be balanced. They can still take part in everything else just the same.

Powerplay and Player factions were added after the fact. And would have no effect on kick starters anyways because they knew nothing about it to begin with.

Powerplay, Hotel california open/solo/private is the reason people feel griefed. We were supposed to have meaningful PVP with powerplay and player factions. But instead Powerplay is dead and only used for modules. And we have colonia sitting in a drum circle holding hands instead of fighting over territory.

GAME OVER.

 

[Jockey79]

Again you like to take little snippets of what I say and then argue semantics about it to try and prove your point. Its gone no where.

Like you in SOG

The games evolved since the kick starter. There were no powerplay factions and there were no player factions to start with.

And if you'd even browsed the information I've already linked you, they were all in the planning stages and advertised.
Apart from a few tweaks, we have some of what was in the DDA and are waiting for more features to come out

So no, it hasn't "evolved" at all, FDev are following their plan, the one made back in KS/DDA days - which you'd understand if you'd read the information

Game balancing is more important than the guys in the kick starter. If its PVP activity it should be balanced. They can still take part in everything else just the same.

It is balanced, we all have equal access to all content - it doesn't get any more balanced than EVERY player having the same options to choose from.

Powerplay and Player factions were added after the fact. And would have no effect on kick starters anyways because they knew nothing about it to begin with.

again, read the KS/DDA - those faction pages REALLY stand out.
Just like your ignorance and refusal to read it was planned

We were supposed to have meaningful PVP with powerplay and player factions. But instead Powerplay is dead and only used for modules. And we have colonia sitting in a drum circle holding hands instead of fighting over territory.
GAME OVER.

Who said PP was the answer to Direct PvP?

Show me where that was said by Frontier....
While you're at it, define "meaningful" in a PvP context.

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

Like you in SOG




And if you'd even browsed the information I've already linked you, they were all in the planning stages and advertised.
Apart from a few tweaks, we have some of what was in the DDA and are waiting for more features to come out

So no, it hasn't "evolved" at all, FDev are following their plan, the one made back in KS/DDA days - which you'd understand if you'd read the information



It is balanced, we all have equal access to all content - it doesn't get any more balanced than EVERY player having the same options to choose from.



again, read the KS/DDA - those faction pages REALLY stand out.
Just like your ignorance and refusal to read it was planned



Who said PP was the answer to Direct PvP?

Show me where that was said by Frontier....
While you're at it, define "meaningful" in a PvP context.

Quite frankly im done arguing it. I can go pull sources from Braben saying pvp was supposed to be meaningful and its not.

Keep on keeping on though.

I can tell youre as passionate as I am. But it comes down to simple game balancing. And it will be balanced like it or not. Its inevitable as it is with any multiplayer game.

Im not some prophet, or I have insider info. Its just how games are built. And its why weapons and modules are balanced around PVP, One more time, PVP aspects of the game. And not PVE.

Good day.

https://www.reddit.com/r/PS4/commen...ier_developments_david_braben_ask_me/djgryqe/ <Braben saying the game is evolving among talking about offline mode and EVEN MAKING CHANGES TO THE KICKSTARTER PROMISES OH BABY.

https://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDange...m_anything_david_braben_obe_fdev_ceo/dg43bse/ <Braben talking about changes to the background sim. AROUND THIS TIME.

And someone can pull the pvp is supposed to be meaningful from somewhere.

Good luck in your future endeavors.

 

[Jockey79]

Quite frankly im done arguing it. I can go pull sources from Braben saying pvp was supposed to be meaningful and its not.

The video link for that is in The Wall of Information - if you'd looked.

But it comes down to simple game balancing.

When all players have EXACTLY the same options and content open to them - it's balanced.
You cannot balance a game based on a few PvPers being miserable they ran off all their targets.

You don't want balance, you want squishes to amuse you. And FD cannot help you there.

Its inevitable as it is with any multiplayer game.

Death and Taxes are the only "inevitable" things in life.
And no mixed PvE / PvP MMO ever gets their game balanced in the way you are thinking.

Its just how games are built..

LOL, Funny, claiming you know how games are made, yet you think PP was a product of Paul Daniels waving his hands... just like that.

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

Quite frankly im done arguing it. I can go pull sources from Braben saying pvp was supposed to be meaningful and its not.

The video link for that is in The Wall of Information - if you'd looked.



When all players have EXACTLY the same options and content open to them - it's balanced.
You cannot balance a game based on a few PvPers being miserable they ran off all their targets.

You don't want balance, you want squishes to amuse you. And FD cannot help you there.



Death and Taxes are the only "inevitable" things in life.
And no mixed PvE / PvP MMO ever gets their game balanced in the way you are thinking.



LOL, Funny, claiming you know how games are made, yet you think PP was a product of Paul Daniels waving his hands... just like that.

Yeah yeah, once again arguing semantics.

its gonna be a real joy when this happens.

Nevermind the links I posted eh?

 

[Spenceuk99]

When you win, it's PvP.
When you lose the guy griefed ya

 

[EvE4evah]

It's somewhat tragic, you guys arguing over silly stuff. Yet I'm happy both of you love this game so much.

I'm only human after all

And all that.

Kisses!!

 

[jasonbarron]

It's somewhat tragic, you guys arguing over silly stuff. Yet I'm happy both of you love this game so much.

I'm only human after all

And all that.

Kisses!!

Can I have some too?

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

Wow. So, in other words, this is another PvP attempt, to put a point on it, to force everyone into Open...again.
So someone not in Open really can't do anything per you. Except explore. No wait, gotta hand in that data somewhere. Might up the BGS for someone. Can't mine because I do have to sell my ore somewhere. Don't want to effect the station controlling factions BGS %. Guess that rules out trading and missions too.

I have a better idea. You play your game and I'll play mine. How about you provide your own content and targets if you are so bored with the game. I don't wish to play with you or your like-minded ilk. PvP your behind off in Open and leave others to play whatever Mode they want. Solo, PG, Open as the game was designed.
I paid for my game and wish to play my game. You play yours.

Then stay in a private group where you belong. And if you arent going out of your way to effect others from the private group or solo then none of this effects you to begin with.

Pretty dang simple if you ask me.

 

[EvE4evah]

Can I have some too?
http://cdn77.sadanduseless.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/worst-kiss15.jpg

Jason that's so unfair._. I'm out of reps

 

[the100thmonkey]

If PVP actions of the BGS were restricted to open play.

But it's not. Everything else is moot.

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

But it's not. Everything else is moot.

Not yet

 

[thirstyfish]

If PVP actions of the BGS were restricted to open play. IE powerplay and player factions. You could send them to the rebuy screen and defend your base. Or force a wing for protection.

Open for ps4 players, Open for Xbox players as I understand PC players cannot see them. But people would still have the same chance to counter other than it coming down to a time vs time battle. Which is why a very small part of the player base takes part in it. Even smaller than the PVP community. Unless a big event happens like Operation Sirius Business. That shut down engineers. Too bad they couldnt have been shot at and stopped.

And people are lucky the the starter system shut down didn't go through. Once again people were begging for changes then. As there was no defending against something like that. There should be multiple ways to counter activities rather than who has the most time.



But its not. It comes down to time vs time. You gonna call off work or school to win a spaceship game battle shooting boring NPCs? The same thing youve been doing since day one when you started this game?

Its why no one takes part in this stuff.

Thats why people really dont care for powerplay other than modules. And people really dont care much about colonia except for helping each other grow. People want "meaningful pvp" But everytime something is suggested for it. It gets shot down because people are against it all together. Which is not very fair for anybody.

This is called having your cake and eating it too.

No, it is about volume. One person working at the BGS for 10 hours is about the same as 5 people working for 2 hours. If someone genuinely has more time than you, that is an life problem, not a game one. FD has no responsibility for that. As in everything, there are going to be some people who have more time than others. Simple fact of life. No avoiding it, and life doesn't have a nerf hammer to swing (unless nerf actually has made a hammer).

More unsubstantiated claims I see. Plenty of people work the BGS. In fact, all players take part in the BGS. And a good number of them decide to take a larger interest in it. Otherwise, how is there a BGS guide thread here?

You keep saying "meaningful pvp," but I think you mean "more seals to club."

There are still people who powerplay for the sake of powerplay, but powerplay isn't just about pvp. Dev's have already said that solo and pg players get equal influence on powerplay. I don't care for it much because it makes moving around the bubble harder than it needs to be, and it often turns into a massive grind fest.

What you fail to realize is that the BGS is mode blind. It doesn't care, and due to the architecture of the game, it doesn't have the mechanism to care. This topic of restricting BGS to open has been kicked around before. Sandro toyed with it for a while and came back saying that, after some thought, it was a bad idea. This is Sandro, the lead designer of the game.

Seriously, read the DDA, it more or less outlines what this game is going to be. FD has a plan and they are following it. If you have issues with this much of the game, then I think you bought the wrong game. Helps to do your research first before buying a product that you aren't familiar with.

 

[Jack Schitt]

And someone can pull the pvp is supposed to be meaningful from somewhere.

Actually I wish someone would. Everyone invokes it, and like many others I'm sure I can remember him saying it (or something very similar) prior to launch, but I'll be damned if I can find an actual source or recall ever seeing one posted on these forums.

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

No, it is about volume. One person working at the BGS for 10 hours is about the same as 5 people working for 2 hours. If someone genuinely has more time than you, that is an life problem, not a game one. FD has no responsibility for that. As in everything, there are going to be some people who have more time than others. Simple fact of life. No avoiding it, and life doesn't have a nerf hammer to swing (unless nerf actually has made a hammer).

More unsubstantiated claims I see. Plenty of people work the BGS. In fact, all players take part in the BGS. And a good number of them decide to take a larger interest in it. Otherwise, how is there a BGS guide thread here?

You keep saying "meaningful pvp," but I think you mean "more seals to club."

There are still people who powerplay for the sake of powerplay, but powerplay isn't just about pvp. Dev's have already said that solo and pg players get equal influence on powerplay. I don't care for it much because it makes moving around the bubble harder than it needs to be, and it often turns into a massive grind fest.

What you fail to realize is that the BGS is mode blind. It doesn't care, and due to the architecture of the game, it doesn't have the mechanism to care. This topic of restricting BGS to open has been kicked around before. Sandro toyed with it for a while and came back saying that, after some thought, it was a bad idea. This is Sandro, the lead designer of the game.

Seriously, read the DDA, it more or less outlines what this game is going to be. FD has a plan and they are following it. If you have issues with this much of the game, then I think you bought the wrong game. Helps to do your research first before buying a product that you aren't familiar with.

The last thing I do is seal club thank you very much. Nice assumptions there.

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

Actually I wish someone would. Everyone invokes it, and like many others I'm sure I can remember him saying it (or something very similar) prior to launch, but I'll be damned if I can find an actual source or recall ever seeing one posted on these forums.

I think it was on reddit or some gaming article.

But its been thrown in my face a few times. Ill save it next time.

But thats what PVPers want too. We dont want 1v1 me bros. We want to fight over territory.

Something like this, https://wvwintel.com/#1003 Guild wars 2

If you sit and watch the map you can hear it. And people are attacking bases, PVP and PVE is all mixed together here. BUT YOU CAN STILL SEE EVERYONE and defend your bases.

What Elite has is pretty . And when people ask for something like this. It just gets shot down because they are against PVP(getting shot at) all together. But they dont mind flipping camps(the PVE part of the PVP) where they cant be seen.

And its very unbalanced. And its always why people feel griefed. "Because they got shot for no reason!". And if you ask for reasons. I get accused of wanting to seal club like that dude said above.

Pretty childish. And like I said. Thats called having your cake and eating it too.

Just like if I was to role play. You get "Youre just looking for an excuse to grief!". Ive heard it all.

Just a buncha whiners. And thats a shame.

 

[DukeIronHand]

Then stay in a private group where you belong. And if you arent going out of your way to effect others from the private group or solo then none of this effects you to begin with.

Pretty dang simple if you ask me.

Amazingly you are wrong again. Glad you dropped all the pretense though.
And I'll play how I want, go where I want, and "effect" what I want.
End of communication.