The different wolves you get by changing the language of the game

Aramar · Jul 12, 2021

A lot has been said about the timber wolf in the game and the general confusion about it being a North American subspecies or the general grey wolf. Frontier has never said anything on this issue as far as I know. The zoopedia entry clearly says that it is the general grey wolf (scientific name "canis lupus", the map, the list of countries, the text in the description... so many things to consider the whole Zoopedia as an error). However, the common name "timber wolf" has caused the confusion not only for some players, but also for the translators of the game. Depending on which language you play the game in, you get a different animal:

I can't add more photos

I don't understand the remaining languages, but if someone wants to add them, please feel free to contribute.

Please, @Tim Smith, @Jens Erik, @Eltanin Casciani or @Francesca Falcini , could you confirm us which animal is the wolf we have so that all players have the same animal regardless of the language they speak?

Thanks!

DarthQuell · Jul 12, 2021

Aramar said:
A lot has been said about the timber wolf in the game and the general confusion about it being a North American subspecies or the general grey wolf. Frontier has never said anything on this issue as far as I know. The zoopedia entry clearly says that it is the general grey wolf (scientific name "canis lupus", the map, the list of countries, the text in the description... so many things to consider the whole Zoopedia as an error). However, the common name "timber wolf" has caused the confusion not only for some players, but also for the translators of the game. Depending on which language you play the game in, you get a different animal:

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I can't add more photos

I can't add more photos

I don't understand the remaining languages, but if someone wants to add them, please feel free to contribute.

Please, @Tim Smith, @Jens Erik, @Eltanin Casciani or @Francesca Falcini , could you confirm us which animal is the wolf we have so that all players have the same animal regardless of the language they speak?

Thanks!

I think a good compromise is either timber wolf (subspecies) or gray wolf (whole species)

Gray wolf would make it easier to make it an international animal, but then it'd be odd we get the Arctic wolf as a separate subspecies (and if you include the dingo as Canis lupus dingo, then that too)

Calling it the timber wolf would help it be consistent with the other 2 Canis canines, but them there's be no dog representation in Europe (and much of Asia, for that matter)

I personally vote for timber wolf, just because it looks like one, and they heavily hint towards it being that specific subspecies (such as the new world decorations for it and that it's main tags are NA and temperate [I know ot also has Europe and Asia, but you probably understand what I'm saying])

Urufu1997 · Jul 12, 2021

Regarding the Timberwolf/Mackenzie Wolf/Northwestern Wolf Situation: Timberwolf isn't even a Subspecies. It is a Term under which multiple North American Subspecies are collected. I think Mackenzie Wolf and Northwestern Wolf are different Names for the same Subspecies.
If you compare the Body to Photos it is also clear that they planned it to be a North American Subspecies. Most likely the Northwestern Wolf. I don't understand why they can't make it so that it is the same in every Language.

Also before someone feels the Need again to claim that there are no Errors in the Zoopedia, look at the Pages of some other Species and you'll find Errors (Example: Social Requirements of Ring Tailed Lemur, Red Panda and Giant Panda, Temperature for Cuviers Dwarf Caiman.....)

I would say make a Issue Tracker Reports but in recent Times no one seems to submit to the Reports anymore

NZFanatic · Jul 12, 2021

Urufu1997 said:
Also before someone feels the Need again to claim that there are no Errors in the Zoopedia

Just call me out if you want to call me out. You can type @ followed by the username.

I never said the Zoopedia had "no errors", I said it has no errors in relation to the wolf. You were the one claiming that the entire Zoopedia page for the wolf was wrong because of how the wolf looks.

@Aramar, I've been begging for clarification on this since launch but I don't think there's even been a single instance where Frontier has addressed it. Hopefully this thread will draw them out in some capacity!

DeJandro´s Gameplays · Jul 12, 2021

Aramar said:
A lot has been said about the timber wolf in the game and the general confusion about it being a North American subspecies or the general grey wolf. Frontier has never said anything on this issue as far as I know. The zoopedia entry clearly says that it is the general grey wolf (scientific name "canis lupus", the map, the list of countries, the text in the description... so many things to consider the whole Zoopedia as an error). However, the common name "timber wolf" has caused the confusion not only for some players, but also for the translators of the game. Depending on which language you play the game in, you get a different animal:

View attachment 249602

View attachment 249603

View attachment 249604

View attachment 249605

View attachment 249606

View attachment 249607

View attachment 249608

View attachment 249609

View attachment 249610

View attachment 249611

I can't add more photos

I can't add more photos

I don't understand the remaining languages, but if someone wants to add them, please feel free to contribute.

Please, @Tim Smith, @Jens Erik, @Eltanin Casciani or @Francesca Falcini , could you confirm us which animal is the wolf we have so that all players have the same animal regardless of the language they speak?

Thanks!

Buaah, I also noticed this error in the wolf and mentioned it in my last YouTube video, even though I didn't know it was so chaotic depending on the language. Thank you very much @Aramar for pointing it out. Honestly, I think it was probably poor coordination between the translators because of them not using the same source to figure out which species they were translating, although who knows.

darthquell said:
I think a good compromise is either timber wolf (subspecies) or gray wolf (whole species)

Gray wolf would make it easier to make it an international animal, but then it'd be odd we get the Arctic wolf as a separate subspecies (and if you include the dingo as Canis lupus dingo, then that too)

Calling it the timber wolf would help it be consistent with the other 2 Canis canines, but them there's be no dog representation in Europe (and much of Asia, for that matter)

I personally vote for timber wolf, just because it looks like one, and they heavily hint towards it being that specific subspecies (such as the new world decorations for it and that it's main tags are NA and temperate [I know ot also has Europe and Asia, but you probably understand what I'm saying])

In my opinion, I would prefer it to be considered the Mackenzie / Northwest subspecies (Canis lupus occidentalis) or any other North American subspecies that closely resembles it, as having it as a generic wolf (Canis lupus) contradicts the idea of having the Arctic wolf (Canis lupus arctos) as a separate subspecies, as you @darthquell so well stated. Doing so will also make more sense considering the style they are establishing with other species from the beginning of the game like bears, as there are no European subspecies at the moment. I think turning that North American wolf into another subspecies, although it is true that it will leave Europe and Asia without Canis lupus subsp. representatives, will be the best and easiest option while also helping to increase the biodiversity of species ingame, and would be a nice addition to any future DLC focused on this region.

NZFanatic said:
Just call me out if you want to call me out. You can type @ followed by the username.

I never said the Zoopedia had "no errors", I said it has no errors in relation to the wolf. You were the one claiming that the entire Zoopedia page for the wolf was wrong because of how the wolf looks.

@Aramar, I've been begging for clarification on this since launch but I don't think there's even been a single instance where Frontier has addressed it. Hopefully this thread will draw them out in some capacity!

Anyway, let's wait and see what the Community Managers have to say. However, if they haven't addressed any of the errors that @Urufu1997 commented for the time that you @NZFanatic have said, I wouldn't expect any changes / fixes in the future in the zoopedia, but I wish they did as it is a good way to teach about the biology of these animals.

yoav_r · Jul 12, 2021

I think they pulled a deliberate move with the Timber Wolf. It is very clearly based on the Northwestern Wolf in model, name and theming, so when people complain about the Dingo and Arctic Wolf Frontier can just shrug and people go with "it's a different subspecies", and when people complain about lack of European/west asian animals they shrug the other way, and people say "It's totally Canis Lupus".

I lean towards Northwestern Wolf, both becuase of theming and because this wolf definitely doesn't represent the arabian, or indian wolves, so it's totally not Canis Lupus to me. I can't recreate wolf habitats from my country in the game because the timber wolf (unlike the real life arabian wolf) can't be put in a desert biome. Here are respective pictures of these subspecies for comparison:

I don't like this move in all honesty, but it is what it is, and it is very clear we will never get direct answers. For now it's best IMO that everyone settles for their own head-canon, and use it as it wants.

DarthQuell · Jul 12, 2021

DeJandro´s Gameplays said:
In my opinion, I would prefer it to be considered the Mackenzie / Northwest subspecies (Canis lupus occidentalis) or any other North American subspecies that closely resembles it, as having it as a generic wolf (Canis lupus) contradicts the idea of having the Arctic wolf (Canis lupus arctos) as a separate subspecies, as you @darthquell so well stated. Doing so will also make more sense considering the style they are establishing with other species from the beginning of the game like bears, as there are no European subspecies at the moment. I think turning that North American wolf into another subspecies, although it is true that it will leave Europe and Asia without Canis lupus subsp. representatives, will be the best and easiest option while also helping to increase the biodiversity of species ingame, and would be a nice addition to any future DLC focused on this region

Agreed. By the way, when I say timber wolf, I'm referring to the typical gray wolf subspecies of NA. Sorry for the confusion, I'm likely using outdated info

DarthQuell · Jul 12, 2021

yoav_r said:
I think they pulled a deliberate move with the Timber Wolf. It is very clearly based on the Northwestern Wolf in model, name and theming, so when people complain about the Dingo and Arctic Wolf Frontier can just shrug and people go with "it's a different subspecies", and when people complain about lack of European/west asian animals they shrug the other way, and people say "It's totally Canis Lupus".

I lean towards Northwestern Wolf, both becuase of theming and because this wolf definitely doesn't represent the arabian, or indian wolves, so it's totally not Canis Lupus to me. Here are respective pictures of these subspecies for comparison:

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I don't like this move in all honesty, but it is what it is, and it is very clear we will never get direct answers. For now it's best IMO that everyone settles for their own head-canon, and use it as it wants.

I agree on that, as well. Most gray wolf subspecies look very different. I mean, Arctic wolf and Northwestern wolf is one example. Another is the red wolf (I believe it a separate species, but to make my point let's say it's a subspecies), and let's not forget the Mexican gray wolf. All from NA, all very different.

In this case, it should be made into a specific subspecies

Urufu1997 · Jul 12, 2021

NZFanatic said:
You were the one claiming that the entire Zoopedia page for the wolf was wrong because of how the wolf looks.

I've never claimed that the complete Zoopedia Entry is wrong. Only the Distribution and the Latin Name

yoav_r · Jul 12, 2021

darthquell said:
I agree on that, as well. Most gray wolf subspecies look very different. I mean, Arctic wolf and Northwestern wolf is one example. Another is the red wolf (I believe it a separate species, but to make my point let's say it's a subspecies), and let's not forget the Mexican gray wolf. All from NA, all very different.

In this case, it should be made into a specific subspecies

The problem is that the Eurasian wolf is extremely similar to the Timber Wolf, so if Frontier were to put both of them in the roster it would literally be just a reskin. The way they went with they can just shrug and let us fight.

Urufu1997 · Jul 12, 2021

yoav_r said:
The problem is that the Eurasian wolf is extremely similar to the Timber Wolf, so if Frontier were to put both of them in the roster it would literally be just a reskin. The way they went with they can just shrug and let us fight.

If you compare Photos you will see some Differences. I think the European Wolf would deserve a Place in the Game. Even though I hope the Europe Pack will be a Animal Pack instead of a regular DLC so it won't take away the Place of a more unique Animal

DarthQuell · Jul 12, 2021

yoav_r said:
The problem is that the Eurasian wolf is extremely similar to the Timber Wolf, so if Frontier were to put both of them in the roster it would literally be just a reskin. The way they went with they can just shrug and let us fight.

True, many of them are similar. Here are some charts:

This one compares the Eurasian wolf with the North American wolf (note: I did not draw this up. My drawing skills are dumb. This was an image I found online)

And many subspecies (not all, but still)

yoav_r · Jul 12, 2021

Urufu1997 said:
If you compare Photos you will see some Differences. I think the European Wolf would deserve a Place in the Game. Even though I hope the Europe Pack will be a Animal Pack instead of a regular DLC so it won't take away the Place of a more unique Animal

I really really hope the Eurasian Wolf won't be in the game, because we have way too many canines and any more canine will take a precious slot in the roster.

NZFanatic · Jul 12, 2021

Urufu1997 said:
I've never claimed that the complete Zoopedia Entry is wrong. Only the Distribution and the Latin Name

The distribution map and binomial are correct to what Frontier wanted, as is the body of text, which never refers to it as an American wolf, hence the contention. The implicit claim you were making is that it was an American wolf because of how it looks, or because of one single line in a campaign which means nothing, which ignores every other bit of information we have on the in-game wolf.

yoav_r · Jul 12, 2021

NZFanatic said:
The distribution map and binomial are correct to what Frontier wanted, as is the body of text, which never refers to it as an American wolf, hence the contention. The implicit claim you were making is that it was an American wolf because of how it looks, or because of one single line in a campaign which means nothing, which ignores every other bit of information we have on the in-game wolf.

You ignore the model itself. The zoopedia can say whatever, but it looks nothing like wolves from other parts of the world.

Leaf Productions · Jul 12, 2021

I feel like the names are fine, it's all dependent upon what the localization teams felt were right. I feel like frontier should have different priorities when it comes to their game than a wolf name in hungarian lol

NZFanatic · Jul 12, 2021

yoav_r said:
You ignore the model itself. The zoopedia can say whatever, but it looks nothing like wolves from other parts of the world.

The model isn't an important piece of information, so yeah, I'm ignoring it. Most of the in-game models are stylised with liberties taken around their actual appearance. In any case any images of American wolves compared to European wolves shows that there aren't any huge differences between them aside of size, and especially now that they've added the variant skins, even the in-game wolf's colours crossover between the regions.

DeJandro´s Gameplays · Jul 12, 2021

yoav_r said:
The problem is that the Eurasian wolf is extremely similar to the Timber Wolf, so if Frontier were to put both of them in the roster it would literally be just a reskin. The way they went with they can just shrug and let us fight.

darthquell said:

True, many of them are similar. Here are some charts:View attachment 249661
This one compares the Eurasian wolf with the North American wolf (note: I did not draw this up. My drawing skills are dumb. This was an image I found online)

View attachment 249662
And many subspecies (not all, but still)

Click to expand...

Well, it is true that they are quite similar, but not entirely identical, although perhaps that could be solved by not adding the Eurasian wolf to the game, but other European subspecies. A good replacement example would be the Iberian wolf (Canis lupus signatus) or the Italian (Canis lupus italicus), which differ enough not to be just a repaint, especially considering that they are smaller and with shorter fur, since they are adapted to warmer environments. It would also be a perfect complement to a DLC with Mediterranean species.

Also, the same goes for the Middle East subspecies, such as the Arabian (Canis lupus arabs), which would also be a good DLC animal, especially considering, for example, that many species of Arabian animals were absent in the African DLC which, in my opinion, should only have been focused on Saharan / Arab species, making them a perfect match for dromedary camels, Arabian oryx, and hamadryas baboons, just to say a few, that we did not have the opotunity to see.

However, I wouldn't rule out the Eurasian wolf just because it would be just a repaint. I would rather get the other subspecies I mentioned above before getting the Eurasian wolf in a DLC, but always hoping to have the latter in the near future as well, as the more species / subspecies we have, the better zoos we will be able to design. I think we should never forget that, and just order as many animals as we can.

DeJandro´s Gameplays · Jul 12, 2021

Leaf Productions said:
I feel like the names are fine, it's all dependent upon what the localization teams felt were right. I feel like frontier should have different priorities when it comes to their game than a wolf name in hungarian lol

I totally disagree. If we as consumers of the game deny even the simplest errors, this can lead to the developers themselves being very careless, thus accumulating these small errors until they end up being a big problem difficult to solve. It has already happened with other games, and it can perfectly happen again.

Additionally, what some players may consider a minor error may be viewed by others as a priority that needs to be corrected. Taking as an example what you have said, perhaps there are people from Hungary who are very bothered by this error because they have a great appreciation for the subspecies of their region, even if you do not consider it as valuable. All issues are important, it just depends on the perspective you see them.

SalamAnders · Jul 12, 2021

I played the game in Danish for like 15 minutes doing the beta, before I couldn't handle the horrible translation anymore, I have played in English ever since. I have seen some gameplay imagines in the meantime, and I don't think it has gotten much better over time.

Whoever translated that clearly didn't have a lot of knowledge when it comes to animals and zoo vocabulary in general, and clearly didn't care enough to research it probably.

I imagine this could be an issue in several countries. Not saying there isn't a problem with this whole Canis lupus thing, I just don't think the translation of the English name has much to do with the issue here. When you want a common name for a species in your native language, you should start by looking at the scientific name not the English name anyway.

Whoever did the Danish version just seem to have been lazy