The Elite Dangerous ingame reputation system thread

[CMDR Alex Occasus]

I read a bit of this thread from a tablet in a hotel in BFE.

I used to game every day as much as I could, hell back in the day where things could play well enough I brought a 2nd laptop when I had to travel for work so I could try and play my MMO. Of course, that was being sure I could stay in a hotel that had internet in the hotel room. No Wi-Fi then.

I do understand that this is beta testing and accelerated for the sake of testing.

But, myself, the way my work can play out, I can be on the road for up to a month for work. Sometimes more to be honest. I don't play any RPG MMO's anymore because my career has become what my life is for the time.

I had been done for a while until I re-discovered ED.

I bought a Warthog, a new captain's chair, and a new monitor as I realized the way I wanted to experience the galaxy that was made by Frontier. Plus I have bought other swag just because I really love the game.

My situation is probably the exception, not the rule, but any type of quick decay would be devastating for me. Heck, as it is I am happy to get a night or two of gaming in a week. The two or three weeks of being on the road and not being able to play happen often enough, I would hate to finally get back to my home and find out that I have been punished for having a non-simulated life.

This is a very slippery slope and I hope that myself and other are considered when final implementation is considered.

I just hope that FDevs consider folks like me when they consider the decay factor.

Edit, but left: I said considered too much.

 

[Sysmon]

I just hope that FDevs consider folks like me when they consider the decay factor.

Same here! Although we need to remember, as stated in the Dev logs, that the rep will meander towards neutrality to some extent, from either end. It makes sense to not be able to keep them super happy if we only check in once in a while.

But nobody likes to be denied content just because they can't put in 4 hours or more a night. There is therefore a need to ensure that it is possible (with effort, of course) for everybody to achieve what here can be considered milestones (rather than end goals). Making the decay so that it's easy for everybody to keep Allied or whatever status indefinitely is not the answer. The Power Players will just get bored, as will the general casual player. Just see what happened to games like WoW, that are leaking player numbers quickly since there is nothing challenging to do anymore. To a large extent thanks to the game developer themselves, who catered to the lowest common denominator, so to speak.

FD has so far been good at making the game they want to play and give us something with a challenge built in, with content that may not be easily achievable to experience on a casual basis, but with plenty other to do. I hope that keeps up. So when the rep rebalancing rates (sounds less detrimental than decay) are adjusted for the patch to go live, I hope it will still force us to work for our goals.

S

 

[Mephane]

Entropy, and all variations thereof, is not something to be overly happy about, as a rule.

You just nailed it. This is the essence of it, and it also applies to the powerplay reward ladder (although that one is a set of nested issues, each one amplifying each other but already very bad on their own).

 

[B33 ENN]

I'm a little confused. Does this degrading only affect Powerplay participants, or does it affect every player, i.e. I've just achieved Allied with all three major factions (Alliance, Empire, Feds), so will these drop to Friendly when this beta goes live?

 

[Mephane]

I'm a little confused. Does this degrading only affect Powerplay participants, or does it affect every player, i.e. I've just achieved Allied with all three major factions (Alliance, Empire, Feds), so will these drop to Friendly when this beta goes live?

Every player. And it affects all reputation, major and minor faction.

 

[B33 ENN]

Every player. And it affects all reputation, major and minor faction.

I see, thanks. Sounds like another time-sink grind-fest mechanic rather than an innovative gameplay element to me.

Hi All,

I posted earlier in this thread but have had some thought to the whole matter. Whilst I don't oppose the idea of decaying rep the speed in which it was dropping was too fast. Adam has already told us that it has been tweaked (hopefully slow enough now), and it got me to thinking of when I played UO many moons ago. They had a Fame and Karma measurement that decayed after time (very similar to the idea being tested here) but Fame decayed quicker than Karma. Basically your actions added or subtracted to these values and your Char name reflected these titles. I've looked it up and pasted in the table below. Here's my 2 pence worth: If FD want a non-persistent rep system then try something similar. In terms of trade for instance, trading in slavery could lower your karma value slightly each time you smuggled them in (but would increase fame), whereas trading in legal or required commodities increase both. Exploring would increase both with bonuses in fame for 1st discoverer. Bounty hunting or general combat would contribute dependant on the type of action e.g. murdering a clean CMDR or NPC would lower Karma but potentially increase fame if they were higher in combat rank (no fame bonus for equal or lower rank but Karma could be affected). I suppose there's the additional factor of the factions but that's something that FD could work out (including the titles to replace those listed below). Thoughts anyone?

		Fame
		0 to 1249	1250 to 2499	2500 to 4999	5000 to 9999	10000 and above
Karma	10000 and above	Trustworthy	Estimable	Great	Glorious	Glorious Lord/Lady
	5000 to 9999	Honest	Commendable	Famed	Illustrious	Illustrious Lord/Lady
	2500 to 4999	Good	Honorable	Admirable	Noble	Noble Lord/Lady
	1250 to 2499	Kind	Respectable	Proper	Eminent	Eminent Lord/Lady
	1 to 1249	Fair	Upstanding	Reputable	Distinguished	Distinguished Lord/Lady
	Zero	No title	Notable	Prominent	Renowned	Lord/Lady
	minus 1 to minus 1249	Rude	Disreputable	Notorious	Infamous	Infamous Lord/Lady
	minus 1250 to minus 2499	Unsavoury	Dishonourable	Ignoble	Sinister	Sinister Lord/Lady
	minus 2500 to minus 4999	Scoundrel	Malicious	Vile	Villainous	Villainous Lord/Lady
	minus 5000 to minus 9999	Despicable	Dastardly	Wicked	Evil	Evil Lord/Lady
	minus 10000 and lower	Outcast	Wretched	Nefarious	Dread	Dread Lord/Lady

This would be something interesting. Honestly, the amount of times I come across better gameplay suggestions and ideas from users than I see in the game from the developers is astounding.

 

[Arubeto]

I guess "decaying reputation to less extreme values" would work if we had more reputation levels than just "hostile/unfriendly/neutral/friendly/allied". If there were more levels - 5 unfriendly and 5 friendly for example - just dropping from the highest/lowest levels to the next one wouldn't be so bad, perhaps. With those few reputation levels we have right now, though, falling from allied to friendly is like loosing half your reputation by just decreasing it to "less extreme values", which is way too much, IMHO.

 

[JinjaBeardy]

This could drive me away from the game, TBH. I work long hours during the week and cannot play other than at weekends, when I get maybe 2-3hrs play in. This would mean running fill tilt each session just to stand still. Not fun in any way shape or form. I've only just got allied with the Alliance, and that took long enough.

 

[Wullail]

Hi all,

To let you know we have changed the rate of decay today to make it a bit slower. The effect may not become apparent instantly (as servers need to update etc) but hopefully over the next few days you will notice a difference. Also just to clarify, your reputation should never decay below friendly (or above unfriendly).

Adam

Do independant faction reps decay also? , it's already a way longer slog to get independant system permits than the big 3 as there are less stations available to do bulletin board quests at, losing all that faction from above friendly is going to be a killer if it happens.

 

[Shaamaan]

Is this true? This is totally unfair to people like myself with a family who can only spend small amounts of time playing. I'd like to think my contribution to the galaxy is remembered when I next log back in!

This, this and this once more.

 

[Duckfather]

I checked the rep of my beta char last night, and in the 3 days or so since beta has been out, I've dropped from Allied to Friendly with both Federation and Empire! Now I know the rate has been dropped now and the damage was probably already done, but even if it's dropped radically, this will definitely penalise those of us who can't play 24hrs a day or those of us who explore! I'm currently 3 weeks out into the black, with an enforced game absence of 3 weeks starting tomorrow, and then 3 weeks travel back to civilisation after that (should I decide to come back, or indeed, even keep on playing!). 9 weeks out from the occupied bubble? I'm just glad it's capped at friendly, or I'd be kill on sight to everyone!

This is pretty damn close to a game-breaker for me and this is the first time through the entire development process I've even remotely felt like this!

Incidentally, for those interested, rep with all sub factions that I have checked have also dropped back to friendly!

 

[Mephane]

Do independant faction reps decay also? , it's already a way longer slog to get independant system permits than the big 3 as there are less stations available to do bulletin board quests at, losing all that faction from above friendly is going to be a killer if it happens.

All reputation decays. I also worked my way up to allied with several independent factions. Sirius Corporation. Pilots Federation. Dark Wheel. Party Of Cockaigne (yes that is a system in the game). Sublime Order Of Van Maanen's Star. Possibly a few more which I can't get together right now. If reputation decay is there to stay, I will not bother again about any of these factions except probably the Pilots Federation, because why would I want to regrind the same thing? As for permits in the future, you would binge-grind to allied, get the permit, and then forget about their reputation entirely.

I'd like to be able to return to these factions, still be as fondly recognized as ever, maybe do a few lucrative jobs, maybe let the engineers I do a check-up of my ship at mate's rates.

But with rep decay, by the time I get around to do that (Maybe I just do a long exploration trip. Or I am very busy deep inside the Empire. Or I had little time to play in the first place. Or I just didn't feel like visiting the place for a long time.), mate's rates are gone, I am told the best jobs are reserved only for trusted pilots, and the docking controller gives me a look that says "be thankful I didn't decide nag you about obeying station law".

 

[anotheribex]

...And I can see reputation decaying somewhat... but it ought to be something that happens over a period of months, not days. And it ought to be something that just... having a presence should prevent it.

If your reputation decays, it should be because you haven't been in that system in a long time. The old, "Oh, CMDR Moonshadow... we thought you were dead, hadn't seen you in months," sort of thing.

As long as you show up in a system and do something from time to time, your rep ought to be preserved. People don't forget their heroes just because they're out of action a couple of weeks. Likewise, they don't forget their mortal enemies in such a time.

what this guy said.

 

[Myspace Kaitsu80]

I dislike idea of reputation declain, why?

There will be some breaks as people usually have, holidays, job, family, what ever reasons there are, not to mention fatigue of playing too much (burnout, I have noticed a bit since Alpha started at end of 2013 from time to time). Why can´t we CMDR´s (pretend to) be staying at planet/station during that time without penalty?

I have planned to play ED for a VERY LONG TIME, make it part of my life. Unfortunately as old FFE fan I really can´t YET take new Elite fully to my life, as it excludes planetary stuff, still (one more good reason to delay this decading reputation implication, obviously trying to keep people logging in, until ED has all that content what surely will keep people logging in).

 

[Ancipital]

Wow, that bites the wax-fattened tadpole. What's worse, it's not part of the unappealing "powerplay" mishmash that you can just avoid.

I'm rather fond of having rep with peculiar little factions that I only visit once in a blue moon, and enjoy being recognised when I come in to dock. I also don't want to be having to keep track of and schedule my gametime based around all aspects of the game rotting. There's enough busywork raising money to have fun, without a senseless admin load like this.

So far, everything I hated about 1.3 has been avoidable- just steering clear of "powerplay" would do it. The fixes, tweaks, reworks and optimisations are mostly building on a strong base game in a logical manner. However, this brilliant idea seems to be bringing the taint of powerplay into the main game itself. Not impressed- sorry, Sandro.

 

[FuzzySpider]

I'm going to copy/paste my post from another thread, as it deals with this issue.

Let let me tell you a little secret. I've been playing powerplay since beta. No, not this beta, but the Elite beta. I've been on it since last October. Not this version, but my own little version. I was flying around, doing small missions for the good people of Asellus Primus, just trying to get enough cash to get a Cobra. Then, at some point, I arrived at the station and it was all green! They didn't just tell me to observe protocol, but they actually welcomed me! It was awesome! I felt like I'd somehow made allies in this universe, that my actions meant something to someone here.

It was a glorious moment.

I went out and selected other little factions to help around the galaxy, doing missions and building a little empire of allies, trying to help them take systems. And that's been part of my game since. In particular the Purple Mob of LTT 7126 and the Blue Camorra of Ngaliba. When the Blue Camorra had some sort of outbreak I headed there right away, shuttling medicines to them. I actually cared, I felt immersed in the Elite universe.

What's this update going to do? It's going to make them forget about me if I don't go visit them often enough. It's going to take all those little alliances I built and shove them. For what benefit?

This is, after all, the game mechanic which everyone complained about in GTA4. If you had to be "friends" with someone you had to rush off and take them on dinner dates. It became a chore, and Rockstar dropped it like a dead weight for GTA5. Why bring it here?

If I could opt out of this update I would. I've gone from being desperately pumped to play it to finding it rather depressing and dreading it. The 1.3 update is looking like the ultimate immersion killer. The moment Elite goes from being a space simulator, were you can carve your own path, into being just another MMO grindfest using ships as avatars rather than elves and dwarves.

PLEASE FDev. I BEG you. I am not actually typing this on my knees but I would if it would help. PLEASE DON'T DO THIS.

Separate the new AI, the new ships, the audio and visual improves, the pods and new missions, and call that update 1.25 and give that to us. We'd be more than happy trust me. Put back powerplay another 2 or 3 months. Tell the gaming press that you're responding to the community and you want to make powerplay as interesting and intricate as possible with community involvement, and for that reason you're delaying.

 

[Ancipital]

Well, Fuzzy, if you can do that, so can I

Any mechanic that punishes me for spending time away from playing a video game is a mechanic that is destined to drive me away from that video game. Video games are fun, but the moment I'm out doing something fun with my kids and this thought crosses my mind:

"You know, you should be home playing that video game so you don't lose some reputation."

...that's the moment when the game gets uninstalled when I get home. I don't mean this like some sort of ultimatum because who cares if some players quit? I just mean it in the vein that if you make me feel like time spent away from the game is going to make the game less fun and less rewarding then you are ruining the game.

Why would you do this, Frontier?

While I normally hate people failing to edit quotes, I'm going to leave this one intact. It crystallises the exact problem with this rep Richard move. It bears repeating, and Sapient6 said it wonderfully clearly. These mechanics would be fine in a lowest common denominator MOBA with a fickle and predominately teenage audience who don't expect to stick with it in the long term. It is, however, the precise opposite of what should happen in an Elite game.

 

[charognard]

In my shop, i have some Good customers. Because they re visiting me all weeks, i give them some discount and they re ViP... but, some of them, with time, don't come and after few mouth, come back again in my shop. Do you really think, an old good client can keep his advantage in this conditions ??? Well, the old Vip come back all weeks during some mouth, and he become again a VIP.

It's totaly logical to find the same thing in ED, the only issue to debate is about how many time without any contact (mission, trade, bounty) it make to loose 1 reputation rank.

 

[Myspace Kaitsu80]

I'm going to copy/paste my post from another thread, as it deals with this issue.

Let let me tell you a little secret. I've been playing powerplay since beta. No, not this beta, but the Elite beta. I've been on it since last October. Not this version, but my own little version. I was flying around, doing small missions for the good people of Asellus Primus, just trying to get enough cash to get a Cobra. Then, at some point, I arrived at the station and it was all green! They didn't just tell me to observe protocol, but they actually welcomed me! It was awesome! I felt like I'd somehow made allies in this universe, that my actions meant something to someone here.

It was a glorious moment.

I went out and selected other little factions to help around the galaxy, doing missions and building a little empire of allies, trying to help them take systems. And that's been part of my game since. In particular the Purple Mob of LTT 7126 and the Blue Camorra of Ngaliba. When the Blue Camorra had some sort of outbreak I headed there right away, shuttling medicines to them. I actually cared, I felt immersed in the Elite universe.

What's this update going to do? It's going to make them forget about me if I don't go visit them often enough. It's going to take all those little alliances I built and shove them. For what benefit?

This is, after all, the game mechanic which everyone complained about in GTA4. If you had to be "friends" with someone you had to rush off and take them on dinner dates. It became a chore, and Rockstar dropped it like a dead weight for GTA5. Why bring it here?

If I could opt out of this update I would. I've gone from being desperately pumped to play it to finding it rather depressing and dreading it. The 1.3 update is looking like the ultimate immersion killer. The moment Elite goes from being a space simulator, were you can carve your own path, into being just another MMO grindfest using ships as avatars rather than elves and dwarves.

PLEASE FDev. I BEG you. I am not actually typing this on my knees but I would if it would help. PLEASE DON'T DO THIS.

Separate the new AI, the new ships, the audio and visual improves, the pods and new missions, and call that update 1.25 and give that to us. We'd be more than happy trust me. Put back powerplay another 2 or 3 months. Tell the gaming press that you're responding to the community and you want to make powerplay as interesting and intricate as possible with community involvement, and for that reason you're delaying.

I so understand your (and others here) pain...

I have been making since Gamma many systems allied, confident that even with my lower pace (amount?) of gaming I will someday reach "allied" level with that majority faction...

Now I see that with decaying reputation I will never be able to reach "allied" level with any major faction with the time I spent on ED

(Just quessing my near future time at ED on that last line, but if I´m not "allied" yet, what the arrrr am I supposed to do when I try to get more new minor factions "allied", run around checking other minor factions if my reputation is falling on those? And do then what, exactly?)

 

[spacejumbofudge]

I don't like the idea of any real time penalties. State of Decay had stuff like that, you'd not have chance to a play for a week and next time you did your survivors had used all the supplies and got themselves killed.

I could live with relationship decaying with play time if you weren't making yourself useful, but it should be quite slow.

A lot of the changes in powerplay seem to be taking away flexibility and the do what you want attitude and replacing it with more costs, more grind.

All I have wanted since launch is more mission content and it seems this isn't even on the horizon.