The Formidine Rift - Part 2

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Why do we think it is dead? A lot of things seemed to line up about it. I would really love to know if Cass A exists in the game regardless... I wonder if it is indeed a neutron star now. Though I'd hope it to be labelled 'Cassiopeia A' after we discovery scan it, otherwise we'd never know!

Well, I followed the line where it should be, from 3.3 to 3.7 Kpc along the G111.7-2.1 line, and I did not see a single neutron star.
However, there is also the Tycho star remant, G120.1+1.41 distance of 8000-9500lyr. The nice thing about it : it was visible by daylight (most enlightening indeed),
and it has a X-ray source called Cepheus-X1, as in the husband of Cassiopeia. Coordinates in ED are the line from/to :
-6921
195
-4012
-8478
239
-4915

It's still 8° off the RR line, but how strong of a lead is the RR line ?

as a bonus, it is has the Cambridge catalog number 3R 10.
 
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More or less.

You could use 52° 12' 35'' as the declination and 23h 54' 19'' as the right ascension. There is a 2MASS catalog star, but I could not find it ingame.

2MASS J23534982+5212430

Note that cambridge observatory is most know for its radio-astronomy catalogs that led to a nobel prize. (3C catalog, eg.).

dark star perhaps?

is there another star at the coordinates where the 2MASS star would otherwise be?
 
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How does one get EDSM to show that information?


Only just seen this. I did reply to your PM too, but I will post the information here for the benefit of everyone else on the forum.

I've just tried logging out and now I can't see that info. It does appear you need to have an account, but then you can type in any system and select it. If nobody has been there or input it onto the database, then it will tell you this is the case. Otherwise, it gives a "first discovered by" tag. This will be the first person to updload a flight log for the system or input it onto the database. In this case it states "That system was first discovered by Baton on 31/03/2016, 22:20:50"
 
Volunteers Required for Rifter Data Collection Mission:
The summary Sub Sector list is getting done quicker than I expected, and at this rate will be complete by time anyone on DWE returns, so we are looking for a brave volunteer to fly the RR Line using the 500ly Way Points, recording all the Sub Sectors you pass through. (You can use the Form Provided, or I can give Write Access to the Sheet if you find it easier)

Start Point : Far side of Rift, approx PHA AEB WN-W
End Point : Edge of Galaxy, approx DRYO AEB NG-Y
Distance : Approx 8 Kylies

(multiple volunteers could break the job into smaller sections of the RR Line)

Jump right in, its dark out there
 
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Volunteers Required for Rifter Data Collection Mission:
The summary Sub Sector list is getting done quicker than I expected, and at this rate will be complete by time anyone on DWE returns, so we are looking for a brave volunteer to fly the RR Line using the 500ly Way Points, recording all the Sub Sectors you pass through. (You can use the Form Provided, or I can give Write Access to the Sheet if you find it easier)

Start Point : Far side of Rift, approx PHA AEB WN-W
End Point : Edge of Galaxy, approx DRYO AEB NG-Y
Distance : Approx 8 Kylies

(multiple volunteers could break the job into smaller sections of the RR Line)

Jump right in, its dark out there

As I have plotted routes between the outer ones atm, I will find some of this for you from my ED Discovery log. However, I have been using max jump range at this point, (so 37.26 for route plotting).

Between Dryeae Aeb QZ-O c19-1 and DRYEAE AEB QZ-O C19-1, I passed through:



Dryeae Aeb VF-N c20-0
Dryeae Aeb VF-N c20-1
Dryeae Aeb ZX-W b42-0
Dryeia Hypoo PI-R c21-0
Dryeae Aeb FE-V b43-0
Dryeae Aeb FS-J c22-0
Dryeae Aeb NV-R b45-0
Dryeae Aeb OV-R b45-0
Dryeae Aeb XH-O b47-0
Dryeae Aeb LY-H c23-2
Dryeae Aeb QE-G c24-1
Dryeae Aeb IC-D d12-10
Dryeae Aeb PA-J b50-0
Dryeae Aeb UG-H b51-0
Dryeae Aeb NI-B d13-0
Dryeae Aeb ET-D b53-0
Dryeae Aeb JZ-B b54-0
Dryeae Aeb OI-B d13-3
Dryeae Aeb SO-Z d13-2
Dryeae Aeb XG-Y b55-0
Dryeae Aeb DN-W b56-0
Dryeae Aeb RJ-X c28-0
Dryeae Aeb RJ-X c28-1
Dryeae Aeb RJ-X c28-2
 
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Not a bad idea. Here is the version of the clue list I use :

Primary clues (reliable) :
  • The Kahina name ethymology : berber queen - soothsayer/priestess. Berber where called "white aethiopians" at greek times => Cassiopeia link ?
  • Salomé name : link with the dance of the seven veils, there is the 'biblical' version and the Oscar Wilde play, and an other link with Ishtar and the seven gates.
  • The name of the ship, "seven veil" : links with Salomé, could refer to a star discarding stuff, or crossing seven "gates" to reach the destination.
  • One need to plot a way through the rift.
  • Finding it depends on who goes looking : Could the use of a ship with the clipper range narrow down the search area ?
  • We should consider the "core" of the problem : look at the galactic core, look for a stellar core, reconsider what is the central issue of the puzzle.
  • Future hints will make things less "nebulous" : potential link with a nebula or dark cloud ?

Primary clue, may be unreliable/deliberatly missleading (old lady) :
  • Rift is along the RR line.
  • We need to "keep going".

Secondary clues (maybe clues, or not) :
  • Kahina tours the outer gas giants in sol : potential pointer to greek mythos, in particular Neptune+Triton+nereids => Cassiopeia
  • Kahina goes to London and Cambridge : Cambridge is close to the greenwich meridian, there is the Cambridge radio-source catalog (3C catalog).
  • The Prism system and link to greek mythos : all names revolve around Autolycus, whom is one of the argonauts.
  • Sol visit was most enlightening : could refer to a bright light source (radio, visible or X-ray)
  • Kahina leaves her tiara along with the dark Wheel Salomé medalion.

Tinfoil clue :
  • At some point, Drew made a puzzle arround eb, p => ro, c via a Rot13 hinted by an sequence of dots read in unary (13,1,26 IIRC)
  • In reclamation, coordinates are supposed to be at the end of the message, but there are none. Message ends with "Good luck, and ... right on, Commander." which could be seen as three coordinates separated by commas. Using unary format as in "eb,p => ro, c" Drew puzzle (counting characters) it gives : 44 , 3352, 10

Be careful with summarizing data like this, context might get lost and new meaning might be given to your summary that is totally unrelated to the original message.. I mean.. look at Christianity today ;)
 
Volunteers Required for Rifter Data Collection Mission:
The summary Sub Sector list is getting done quicker than I expected, and at this rate will be complete by time anyone on DWE returns, so we are looking for a brave volunteer to fly the RR Line using the 500ly Way Points, recording all the Sub Sectors you pass through. (You can use the Form Provided, or I can give Write Access to the Sheet if you find it easier)

Start Point : Far side of Rift, approx PHA AEB WN-W
End Point : Edge of Galaxy, approx DRYO AEB NG-Y
Distance : Approx 8 Kylies

(multiple volunteers could break the job into smaller sections of the RR Line)

Jump right in, its dark out there

Additionally, I am currently trying to make my way to DRYO AEB AX-E C11-0, but I was unable to plot a route all the way, so I'm not certain how far I will be wandering from the RR line whilst trying to do this.

There does appear to be something about sub-sectors, naming and location that might be worth noting though (the thread on decoding universal cartographics might have more information on this than me, I am only going on feeling from experience in NGC 6357 and from out here). Quite often, the location naming seems to work backwards through the letters.

eg. "LC-U C0" might be very close to "LC-U C1", "MC-U C0" and "NC-U C0", but you might find "LC-U D0" or "LC-U C17-0" might be a long way off.
 
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It seems that I'm not alone in my space madness case, so I'll lay the last bits out for those interested.
If you're not (as in don't want to be biased in your search), just pass on.
  • Cambridge clue : in 1947, radio-astronomers from cambridge discover the strongest radio source > 1GHz out of the solar system. The source is a supernova remnant called Cassiopeia A. The progenitor is unknow as of today, but there is an X ray source there. It is not in game, despite being observable IRL. galactic coord are 111.7°-2.1°. I find very strange that such an object is "missing" from the map.
  • Seven Veils : Prior to core collapse, the progenitor star has 7 layers of nuclear fuel, that will be discarded during the explosion. What remains is the core.

Been on travel so just now catching up.

Nice, this is exactly the line of thought I've been following the last couple of weeks. In addition for many years (only recently disproven and not possible) folks believed that the star that presaged Charles II's birth was CAS A. Charles II was known as the "Restoration" King, which is suspiciously like reclamation and retriibution (to named things in the book).
 
Pha Aeb NM-Y b0
Pha Aeb IG-A b0
Pha Aeb IA-A d3
Hypo Aeb QO-Z d13-2
Hypo Aeb ZY-S b58-0
Hypo Aeb SX-U b57-0
Hypo Aeb NR-W b56-0
Hypo Aeb IL-Y b55-0
Hypo Aeb DF-A b55-0
Hypo Aeb YB-B c27-1
Hypo Aeb RX-D b53-0
Hypo Aeb MR-F b52-0
Hypo Aeb HL-H b51-0
Hypo Aeb EA-J b50-0
Hypo Aeb BF-J b50-0
Hypo Aeb FC-D d12-0
Hypo Aeb FC-D d12-6
Hypo Aeb MM-O b47-0
Hypo Aeb AW-E d11-8
Hypo Aeb FG-Q b46-0
Hypo Aeb DV-R b45-0
Hypo Aeb YO-T b44-0
Hypo Aeb VP-G d10-9
 
A while back DBOBE mentioned missions that no one has done before. Are we running before we can walk, is there a bit missing in all this? When drew says "it depends on who goes looking" is he saying we need to be carrying a mission before we go out there?
 
Reposting because it claims I can't edit my post after 30 minutes, when did that start ?

Been on travel so just now catching up.

Nice, this is exactly the line of thought I've been following the last couple of weeks. In addition for many years (only recently disproven as not possible) folks believed that the star that presaged Charles II's birth was CAS A. Charles II was known as the "Restoration" King, which is suspiciously like reclamation and retriibution to named things in the book. It's now viewed as not possible because they've dated the explosion as no earlier than 1670 and Charles was born in 1630.

The coordinates you guys came up with are close to the ones I did. It's exact location depends on a few factors.
  1. The value used for proper motion. It should be possible to see whether FDEV even factors this in and if they do how. Given CAS A's perceived proper motion then 1300 years should amount to a few milli-arcseconds/year times 1300 which gives a few arc seconds. That will be (top of head guess) many ones or few 10s of LYs
  2. The distance. This is the real kicker. If they just googled it they come up with a number like 11,000 which is a nice round number and at the high end. The literature lists it from 8K to 11K LY. There's no good way to precisely guage distance that far out. The VLBA could do it but I'm not aware that anyone has tried. Nothing else has the parallax capability. That leaves a search tube 1's to 10s of light years across and a few thousand light years long. A daunting task but probably simplified since I'm sure they just lifted values from some catalog..
  3. The actual object (shown in 2010 to be a neutron star) is still there but the precise location is a bit fuzzy. There's frequently a 'kick' during explosion due to asymmetries in material densities that eject the object from the expanding sphere of material. To date (from my reading) Cas A does appear to be in the center.

I'm kind of skeptical that they factored all that in a meaningful way since it's not precisely known so again, standard catalog data guess are best guesses.
By 3302 the dust remnants will be pretty diffuse and mostly gone leaving some neutron star or black hole.

One other interesting tidbit. There was a historic belief that Cas A cycled every 300 years or so. There were historic observations reporting a bright object in it's general location but follow ups never saw anything. In the 1800s one school of thought was that it was the star of Bethlehem. I believe that's all been pretty thoroughly debunked since there's no modern mechanism for that behavior but prior to the last century nobody really knew better and the idea still echoes around in various non-scientific literature.

So if it's in game there should be a neutron star in that area. One possibility is that it doesn't show up in the star maps and you have to 'discover' it through some other mechanism. It's not that hard to make another star type of 'undiscovered' similar to the carbon, proto, y-type, o-type flags so they don't show up in the galmap under normal circumstances. These objects would only show up if you somehow discovered their location. Whether that was done is a different story but it's pretty trivially done and lends itself to some form of 'quest mode'.
 
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A thought:

There has been some discussion about performing full system scans as part of hunting the Rift. While I'm all aboard for thoroughness I think that this is unnecessary.

Why?

Has the scan of any planetary body ever produced anything more than the generic text describing it as earth-like, water-world, high metal content, rocky, icy, etc? I mean... even the description for Earth, our own home planet, just says 'Outdoor world with human-breathable atmosphere and indigenous life. The atmosphere is far from chemical equilibrium as a result.'

This being the case do we really expect that if we come across the homeworld of the Thargoids or some other alien species that there is going to be something different about that world's description when Earth doesn't even get a footnote about being the birth-place of humanity?

The main benefit for scanning system bodies isn't that the resulting scan is going to produce a billboard saying, 'here be Thargoids!' What performing the scan does is ensure that we've spent enough time in the system to allow us to find out if any signal sources spawn or to notice any persistent signal sources.

We need to keep our eyes out for any signal source and investigate each and every one.
 
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Reposting because it claims I can't edit my post after 30 minutes, when did that start ?

Been on travel so just now catching up...

Nice, this is exactly the line of thought I've been following the last couple of weeks. In addition for many years (only recently disproven as not possible) folks believed that the star that presaged Charles II's birth was CAS A. Charles II was known as the "Restoration" King, which is suspiciously like reclamation and retriibution to named things in the book. It's now viewed as not possible because they've dated the explosion as no earlier than 1670 and Charles was born in 1630.

I found some papers with distance measurement of 3.3 to 3.7 Kpc. I followed the line but saw nothing out of the ordinary. However, maybe you should do a second pass
in case I missed something. I will have a look again in the gal-map for a neutrons star further away from the line.

The central source is supposed to be CXOU J232327.8+584842

After that I will investigate the Tycho remnant location.
 
Reposting because it claims I can't edit my post after 30 minutes, when did that start ?

Been on travel so just now catching up.

Nice, this is exactly the line of thought I've been following the last couple of weeks. In addition for many years (only recently disproven as not possible) folks believed that the star that presaged Charles II's birth was CAS A. Charles II was known as the "Restoration" King, which is suspiciously like reclamation and retriibution to named things in the book. It's now viewed as not possible because they've dated the explosion as no earlier than 1670 and Charles was born in 1630.

The coordinates you guys came up with are close to the ones I did. It's exact location depends on a few factors.
  1. The value used for proper motion. It should be possible to see whether FDEV even factors this in and if they do how. Given CAS A's perceived proper motion then 1300 years should amount to a few milli-arcseconds/year times 1300 which gives a few arc seconds. That will be (top of head guess) many ones or few 10s of LYs
  2. The distance. This is the real kicker. If they just googled it they come up with a number like 11,000 which is a nice round number and at the high end. The literature lists it from 8K to 11K LY. There's no good way to precisely guage distance that far out. The VLBA could do it but I'm not aware that anyone has tried. Nothing else has the parallax capability. That leaves a search tube 1's to 10s of light years across and a few thousand light years long. A daunting task but probably simplified since I'm sure they just lifted values from some catalog..
  3. The actual object (shown in 2010 to be a neutron star) is still there but the precise location is a bit fuzzy. There's frequently a 'kick' during explosion due to asymmetries in material densities that eject the object from the expanding sphere of material. To date (from my reading) Cas A does appear to be in the center.

I'm kind of skeptical that they factored all that in a meaningful way since it's not precisely known so again, standard catalog data guess are best guesses.
By 3302 the dust remnants will be pretty diffuse and mostly gone leaving some neutron star or black hole.

One other interesting tidbit. There was a historic belief that Cas A cycled every 300 years or so. There were historic observations reporting a bright object in it's general location but follow ups never saw anything. In the 1800s one school of thought was that it was the star of Bethlehem. I believe that's all been pretty thoroughly debunked since there's no modern mechanism for that behavior but prior to the last century nobody really knew better and the idea still echoes around in various non-scientific literature.

So if it's in game there should be a neutron star in that area. One possibility is that it doesn't show up in the star maps and you have to 'discover' it through some other mechanism. It's not that hard to make another star type of 'undiscovered' similar to the carbon, proto, y-type, o-type flags so they don't show up in the galmap under normal circumstances. These objects would only show up if you somehow discovered their location. Whether that was done is a different story but it's pretty trivially done and lends itself to some form of 'quest mode'.


Nice summary.

I'm very much split on the Cas A search. There are so many of your points that make sense. In addition, Cas A is a strong 21 cm radio source. This is the primary wave length for SETI research.

The negative is the distance from the RR-Line. More than 16°. If we are supposed to be able to find it with only in game tools, this seem far of. For this to work, there should be a way to decode coordinates.

According to Drew, it's not even required to read the book.
 
I do not believe that the formadine rift exists, as a 3rd party author, not frontier, created it.


It is already confirmed in game.

#183
The mystery of the Formidine Rift as described by the clues in my story, Elite: Reclamation :

1. It is there to be found in game in ED.
2. You do not need 'Horizons' to find it as it was finalised long before 'Horizons'.
3. Whether it is found or not depends entirely on who goes looking.
 
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Volunteers Required for Rifter Data Collection Mission:
The summary Sub Sector list is getting done quicker than I expected, and at this rate will be complete by time anyone on DWE returns, so we are looking for a brave volunteer to fly the RR Line using the 500ly Way Points, recording all the Sub Sectors you pass through. (You can use the Form Provided, or I can give Write Access to the Sheet if you find it easier)

Start Point : Far side of Rift, approx PHA AEB WN-W
End Point : Edge of Galaxy, approx DRYO AEB NG-Y
Distance : Approx 8 Kylies

(multiple volunteers could break the job into smaller sections of the RR Line)

Jump right in, its dark out there

I'm currently scanning DRYO AEB AX-E C11-0. I it was a rather meandering path to get there and I did need to use a few FSD boosts (I don't think there is a way through without them). These are the systems I passed through:

Dryo Aeb ED-D c12-0
Dryo Aeb LU-Z c13-0
Dryo Aeb RR-N d6-1
Dryo Aeb NP-Z c13-0
Dryeae Aeb GT-Z c13-0
Dryeae Aeb HT-Z c13-0
Dryeae Aeb FI-B c13-0
Dryeae Aeb CR-N d6-3
Dryeae Aeb CR-N d6-4
Dryeia Hypoo BG-F c14-0
Dryeia Hypoo CG-F c14-0
Dryeia Hypoo ZM-Q d6-3
Dryeia Hypoo VG-S d5-1
Dryeia Hypoo UT-I c12-0
Dryeia Hypoo VG-S d5-1
Dryeia Hypoo YZ-G c13-0
Dryeia Hypoo ZZ-G c13-0
Dryeia Hypoo DG-F c14-0
Dryeia Hypoo ZM-Q d6-0
Dryeia Hypoo CL-F c14-0
Dryeia Hypoo EG-F c14-0
Dryeia Hypoo HR-D c15-0
Dryeia Hypoo LX-B c16-0
Dryeia Hypoo KX-B c16-0
Dryeae Aeb VA-W c15-0
Dryeia Hypoo ET-O d7-5
Dryeae Aeb SU-X c14-1
Dryeae Aeb XA-W c15-0
Dryeae Aeb JX-L d7-4
Dryeae Aeb EO-O b33-0
Dryeae Aeb IU-M b34-0
Dryeae Aeb GN-S c17-1
Dryeia Hypoo WJ-Y c17-0
Dryeia Hypoo BQ-W c18-0
Dryeae Aeb PZ-O c19-1
Dryeae Aeb TF-N c20-0
Dryeae Aeb TF-N c20-1
Dryeae Aeb UF-N c20-0
 
Ok, so I went to the rift. There's a gap of about a day in my memory.. I do have strange dreams of things I've never seen before. I'll get back to you when I remember anything :)

NO, really.. I'm just not up for another day out here.. i'm bored to death, and don't know what to look for. I guess I'm better suited as a combat pilot for the time being. :D

Haha... repressed memory from extreme boredom. That must be it.
 
I'm currently scanning DRYO AEB AX-E C11-0. I it was a rather meandering path to get there and I did need to use a few FSD boosts (I don't think there is a way through without them). These are the systems I passed through:

Just looked you up on EDSM. Looks like you have another Rift and an Arm to go before you hit the edge. Oh the horror !

Edit: But not according to the real Gal Map
 
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