The frustration in suit and weapon upgrade and customization

TrashPlayer

T
I just bought Odyssey this Black Friday to have an experience of how bad it can be.

The FPS is bad especially the moment of disembark and in combat (which is the selling point). Guns are meh, and I don't understand why I need a suppressor when there's no atmosphere for sound to transfer energy. The conflict zone is too big for 12v12 while no operational SRV can be deployed along the drop ship or ready on the ground. Also to much empty space that need a vehicle to cover the distance. Too much reliance on the Maverick suit thus make it become the everyday suit.

All of these I can tolerate despite I said so many things because these can be updated/patched in a later point. The thing I can't tolerate is about the suit and weapon customization and engineering part.

FDev makes suit and weapon engineering mandatory. You can't better suit/weapon because there isn't a grade system in there anymore. Nowadays in firearms in real life we talks about molecularity which you can put scopes, lasers, grips, muzzle attachments how ever you want. I want a bigger mag why I can't just slap one on? And yet in 3306 we take a huge step backward to the age of muskets and cannons?! If I want a bigger backpack why I can't just carry one? Or I need an engineer to help me put on a backpack? It also breaks the seeming philosophy of equipment upgrades exists in Horizons: you purchase a bare bone, basic equipment like the ship. It will work but not the optimal state. Then you spent credits on different modules to upgrade it. You can further enhance it with engineering which is a mechanism in end of normal progress that enhances equipment and brings performance upgrade with drawbacks and specializations to an equipment.

I believe it is not a game designer fault, but a management one. I'm 80% sure someone force the designing team to make this. And for sure I will give Odyssey a negative review on Steam solely one this. 30 buck down in the drain.
 

Bigmaec

Bigmaec

The Great Pre-Upgraded Gear Sharing is Caring Thread

Thanks to @anthonycsheehy, @Darkman Returns and @CMDR Charybdis (and others!) in this thread, we've got a working theory about how the pre-upgraded weapons and suits work in Pioneer shops. I wanted to start this thread as a way for the community to share when they find these items so others can...
forums.frontier.co.uk forums.frontier.co.uk

Make sure you look for the most recent entries.
 
Last edited:

Xae

X
Bigmaec said:

The Great Pre-Upgraded Gear Sharing is Caring Thread

Thanks to @anthonycsheehy, @Darkman Returns and @CMDR Charybdis (and others!) in this thread, we've got a working theory about how the pre-upgraded weapons and suits work in Pioneer shops. I wanted to start this thread as a way for the community to share when they find these items so others can...
forums.frontier.co.uk forums.frontier.co.uk

Make sure you look for the most revent entries.
Click to expand...
G3 gear is nice, but due to the way scaling works its what? 25% roughly reduction?

It takes ~6 bottleneck materials to hit G3, from there it takes ~25 to hit G5.


That doesn't count putting on 4 mods. So maybe a 10% reduction all in.

It is a bandaid on a gaping wound.
 

Bigmaec

Bigmaec
Xae said:
G3 gear is nice, but due to the way scaling works its what? 25% roughly reduction?

It takes ~6 bottleneck materials to hit G3, from there it takes ~25 to hit G5.


That doesn't count putting on 4 mods. So maybe a 10% reduction all in.

It is a bandaid on a gaping wound.
Click to expand...
Now that I finished all my gear with G5 (took me some months of gameplay I enjoyed - and 50 G5 ships over 4.5 years),
I'm not in the position to complain any more.

If you want everything now (which isn't that awful as some in this forum think), months is an awfully long time, sure.
I guess Elite isn't an instant gratification game*. It's just that lots of people don't like to do everything en passe, taking time
to gather stuff. This is understandable, but part of Elite.

* not meant with any negative connotation. Elite is different.
 

Xae

X
Bigmaec said:
Now that I finished all my gear with G5 (took me some months of gameplay I enjoyed - and 50 G5 ships over 4.5 years),
I'm not in the position to complain any more.

If you want everything now (which isn't that awful as some in this forum think), months is an awfully long time, sure.
I guess Elite isn't an instant gratification game*. It's just that lots of people don't like to do everything en passe, taking time
to gather stuff. This is understandable, but part of Elite.

* not meant with any negative connotation. Elite is different.
Click to expand...
People don't have a problem with things taking time. They have a problem with that time spent not being fun. Look at the hours people throw into games like Counter Strike, LOL or WoW. When the core gameplay is fun it isn't a grind, its fun.

Knocking over a base for the 500th time, or refreshing the mission board, or using Login/Logout at the few places it still works isn't good gameplay. Variety is the spice of life, and feeling forced to repeat the same actions for months on end to progress will remove the fun from any activity.
 

Agony_Aunt

Agony_Aunt
I'll address a couple of points.

Performance is still bad for some. A lot depends on hardware. We can hope update 9 improves things further.

Regarding CZs being too big, it very much depends on the settlement. Some are big, some are small. However, had no problem on even big settlements. Small ones can be a bit hectic at times.

Engineering is not mandatory. I've done a dozen combat zones with unengineered equipment and won every time. I've only done low and medium CZs to date, i understand high CZs might require some engineering or better skill, but otherwise no. It is advised to shop around for some G2/G3 stuff first though just for a bit of an edge.

You don't need a suppressor for combat zones. If you mean in general, then yeah, FD could do with making a distinction between shooting inside where there is pressure and outside where there is no or only low pressure. The distance a shot can be heard from should depend on the air pressure. This would make a good suggestion for FD i think. Harder to make a zone where it could be heard dependent on where the pressure is. That is, standing inside shooting is full volume, but if a guard is on the outside with no/low air pressure on another side of the wall, they probably shouldn't hear it.

I think its one of those things we just have to apply some handwavium to. Like they have suit sensors which pick up the vibration from the shot, and the suppressor module doesn't just reduce sound it reduces vibration/impact.
 

Agony_Aunt

Agony_Aunt
Xae said:
Knocking over a base for the 500th time, or refreshing the mission board, or using Login/Logout at the few places it still works isn't good gameplay. Variety is the spice of life, and feeling forced to repeat the same actions for months on end to progress will remove the fun from any activity.
Click to expand...

That is quite optional you know. You can just run missions doing what you enjoy and gain rewards that way. Especially if you use the NPCs in stations and negotate rewards. Apart from some engineer unlocks (some of which are indeed nasty) most stuff can be obtained just doing what you enjoy.

And you can use the bartender to trade for some stuff as well.

Unless you don't enjoy doing Odyssey missions... in which case, why do you need any upgrades/engineering?
 

Winterwalker

Winterwalker
Agony_Aunt said:
Unless you don't enjoy doing Odyssey missions... in which case, why do you need any upgrades/engineering?
Click to expand...

Uh .. yeah. Similar to the misconception about how a Corvette is the only way to have a good time in a CZ you can have equally, if not more fun in an Eagle. You just need to be good! Some doors need cutting, so you probably need a G1 Maverick suit somewhere but I've done quite a few in unengineered flightsuit - you CAN'T upgrade - with tormentor sidearm. This makes fire fights .. quite exciting.
 

gooddoc

gooddoc
TrashPlayer said:
I just bought Odyssey this Black Friday to have an experience of how bad it can be.

The FPS is bad especially the moment of disembark and in combat (which is the selling point). Guns are meh, and I don't understand why I need a suppressor when there's no atmosphere for sound to transfer energy. The conflict zone is too big for 12v12 while no operational SRV can be deployed along the drop ship or ready on the ground. Also to much empty space that need a vehicle to cover the distance. Too much reliance on the Maverick suit thus make it become the everyday suit.

All of these I can tolerate despite I said so many things because these can be updated/patched in a later point. The thing I can't tolerate is about the suit and weapon customization and engineering part.

FDev makes suit and weapon engineering mandatory. You can't better suit/weapon because there isn't a grade system in there anymore. Nowadays in firearms in real life we talks about molecularity which you can put scopes, lasers, grips, muzzle attachments how ever you want. I want a bigger mag why I can't just slap one on? And yet in 3306 we take a huge step backward to the age of muskets and cannons?! If I want a bigger backpack why I can't just carry one? Or I need an engineer to help me put on a backpack? It also breaks the seeming philosophy of equipment upgrades exists in Horizons: you purchase a bare bone, basic equipment like the ship. It will work but not the optimal state. Then you spent credits on different modules to upgrade it. You can further enhance it with engineering which is a mechanism in end of normal progress that enhances equipment and brings performance upgrade with drawbacks and specializations to an equipment.

I believe it is not a game designer fault, but a management one. I'm 80% sure someone force the designing team to make this. And for sure I will give Odyssey a negative review on Steam solely one this. 30 buck down in the drain.
Click to expand...
Read through most of it but got the jist...........................you want everything NOW & you don't want to put in any effort in getting it NOW!
Am I correct?

You want something in ED/H/O? you gotta grind for it!.......that's how it's always been in this game.

Iv been playing Odyssey since launch day & I'm still not fully upgraded & modded, granted I'm coming towards the end of the Modding & I'm looking at Odyssey & saying " now Iv got all this new stuff, what do I do with it?", as there isn't much following on in gameplay or lore that uses it IMO.

Now if as you suggest, you could do all your Modding in twenty seconds, then maybe you'd be typing out a different post altogether ;)
 

Elpapo

Elpapo
TrashPlayer said:
I just bought Odyssey this Black Friday to have an experience of how bad it can be.

The FPS is bad especially the moment of disembark and in combat (which is the selling point). Guns are meh, and I don't understand why I need a suppressor when there's no atmosphere for sound to transfer energy. The conflict zone is too big for 12v12 while no operational SRV can be deployed along the drop ship or ready on the ground. Also to much empty space that need a vehicle to cover the distance. Too much reliance on the Maverick suit thus make it become the everyday suit.

All of these I can tolerate despite I said so many things because these can be updated/patched in a later point. The thing I can't tolerate is about the suit and weapon customization and engineering part.

FDev makes suit and weapon engineering mandatory. You can't better suit/weapon because there isn't a grade system in there anymore. Nowadays in firearms in real life we talks about molecularity which you can put scopes, lasers, grips, muzzle attachments how ever you want. I want a bigger mag why I can't just slap one on? And yet in 3306 we take a huge step backward to the age of muskets and cannons?! If I want a bigger backpack why I can't just carry one? Or I need an engineer to help me put on a backpack? It also breaks the seeming philosophy of equipment upgrades exists in Horizons: you purchase a bare bone, basic equipment like the ship. It will work but not the optimal state. Then you spent credits on different modules to upgrade it. You can further enhance it with engineering which is a mechanism in end of normal progress that enhances equipment and brings performance upgrade with drawbacks and specializations to an equipment.

I believe it is not a game designer fault, but a management one. I'm 80% sure someone force the designing team to make this. And for sure I will give Odyssey a negative review on Steam solely one this. 30 buck down in the drain.
Click to expand...
This means that oddysey aint is for ya, pal.

Grind for foot equipment from begining aint is nearly as bad compared to how grind was when engineers was relased couple years ago. And we had casino rolls on top of that, where you could roll same G5 blueprint up to hundreds of times to get that desired godrolls. It was bad, and it was removed, but I kinda liked it, and still some of my ships using certain godrolled legacy modules wich are bit better than current ones (shields and boosters).

If anything, oddysey grind is more for patient ones, but again, its not as bad as if could be, if things had would be remain.

Its confusing that you consider "enhance it with engineering which is a mechanism in end of normal progress that enhances equipment and brings performance upgrade with drawbacks and specializations to an equipment" for ships normaly, while you got problem that same process apply for foot weps and suits.


The enginnering itself is copied from ships gameplay, and its very elite dangerous thing. Its been designed that way to force players to "play" content that they created, and if mods for weapons would be easly obtained from pionner supplies, most of ppl would never bother to check that content at all. Kinda cheap trick, but otherwise, most folks would never check some content wich otherwise is "guaranteed" to see, long as one is going to fully G5 things.
 

TrashPlayer

T
gooddoc said:
Read through most of it but got the jist...........................you want everything NOW & you don't want to put in any effort in getting it NOW!
Am I correct?

You want something in ED/H/O? you gotta grind for it!.......that's how it's always been in this game.

Iv been playing Odyssey since launch day & I'm still not fully upgraded & modded, granted I'm coming towards the end of the Modding & I'm looking at Odyssey & saying " now Iv got all this new stuff, what do I do with it?", as there isn't much following on in gameplay or lore that uses it IMO.

Now if as you suggest, you could do all your Modding in twenty seconds, then maybe you'd be typing out a different post altogether ;)
Click to expand...
I spend time on Horizons grinding for credits. I indeed put time and effort into the game. My problem isn't the grind mechanic, but the number of items to grind. In Horizon I can grind credit in lots of different way and no matter which way I choose its going to guaranteed I get some credits along the way. In Odyssey, I need to grind more items for far longer, each have a random chance of spawning. That's make the effort spent not aligning with the reward I expected to receive.

Then comes the difference. In Horizons, I can spend credits on ship modules and upgrade to things I want. In Odyssey, I have to collect certain amounts of materials to have my suit/weapon upgraded. Saw the difference yet?

My only problem is that FD make engineering mandatory, which in the process, make grinding less fun. I love doing mercenary but not collecting collectables.
 

HRDiagram

HRDiagram
TrashPlayer said:
and I don't understand why I need a suppressor when there's no atmosphere for sound to transfer energy.
Click to expand...
It is a gameplay decision. Just like the ships. Every one is very aware that there is no sound in space, but imagine a game where everything is silent, or an action film in space where you can't hear anything. It would be realistic, but possibly boring to most.
That is why there is a lore justification for it, and the sounds are a simulation done by the ship's and suit's computers to make users aware of their surroundings and assist them.
If the battery of your suit runs out, you stop hearing anything, and you only get muffled thuds when you shoot or run, through vibrations inside the suit.
If sounds bother you, you can let the battery run out (quite easy in a Dominator suit). The mod for increased air reserves will make the experience last for longer.
I do it every now and again, it's fun.

Caveat: without energy, the shields won't work but, talking about things that make no sense, shields make zero sense.
 

TrashPlayer

T
Elpapo said:
Its confusing that you consider "enhance it with engineering which is a mechanism in end of normal progress that enhances equipment and brings performance upgrade with drawbacks and specializations to an equipment" for ships normaly, while you got problem that same process apply for foot weps and suits.


The enginnering itself is copied from ships gameplay, and its very elite dangerous thing. Its been designed that way to force players to "play" content that they created, and if mods for weapons would be easly obtained from pionner supplies, most of ppl would never bother to check that content at all. Kinda cheap trick, but otherwise, most folks would never check some content wich otherwise is "guaranteed" to see, long as one is going to fully G5 things.
Click to expand...
Yes, I agree the mechanic of engineering haven't changed from the ships game play and I don't have a problem with that, but where's the normal rated module upgrades before engineering?
 

TrashPlayer

T
HRDiagram said:
If the battery of your suit runs out, you stop hearing anything, and you only get muffled thuds when you shoot or run, through vibrations inside the suit.
Click to expand...
I haven't let my suit run out of juice yet. Gotta try some time.
HRDiagram said:
shields make zero sense.
Click to expand...
I believe in the future we can make energy shields, but not in the way that ED depicted. However, sound and hence wave is a fundamental physics concepts. Without medium, no energy can transfer except things carried by electromagnetic waves like light and heat. (My physics grade isn't too good, please correct me if I'm wrong.)
 
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