The great Oya sampling event begins - calling all interested CMDRs!

[CMDR Mechan]

O7 CMDRs!

As mentioned in the XSF and AXI discords, the great Oya sampling event begins today, on a pilot-program basis.

With the sampling for this week's batch of systems close to being complete, over the next two weeks (from today through April 10 included) we will be running a major Scout Tissue Sample purchasing operation around Titan Oya, with the goal of clearing some of the hardest occupied systems around that Titan. As per official CGs, if the goal is met earlier than such date, the event will end immediately .

As part of this process, we aim to pass on profits from the ultra-profitable spire sites on to Thargoid Scout Tissue Sampling CMDRs. Purchase orders are set at cr500k/sample. Each carrier is funded with at least 6 billion credits to pay contributing CMDRs. Assuming we get sufficient interest, we will extend this event to additional systems and carriers as well. (If we find a way to pay even more per unit we will - right now we are limited by the cr2bil/order limit that applies to carrier orders, so we're putting up 4k sample orders at 500k and refreshing those periodically.) The initial capital allocation for the 6 systems of focus is an aggregate of 43 60 billion, and we expect it to grow.

We will keep this thread updated as the event progresses.

Target systems​

SUCCESS. THANK YOU ALL FOR PARTICIPATING AND MAKING IT HAPPEN!!

What you will need​

A) Class 4 Corrosion Resistant Cargo Rack​

A class 4 Corrosion Resistant Cargo Rack is practically a must-have.

Exigeous has a good video explaining how to acquire it, if you haven't already unlocked it, here:

B) A scout-sampling build​

These builds works for "solo" sampling:

• Python: Engineered / Unengineered
• Anaconda: Engineered / Unengineered

Builds courtesy of CMDR Medi0cr3.

Wing-based sampling is a lot more interesting, but also a lot more complex, and is beyond what we can briefly explain in this post. Ask in the XSF or AXI discords if you want to know more about wing-based sampling.

C) Setting your FPS limit at 30 [while sampling]​

For reasons unknown to humanity, the game engine "breaks" and will make research limpets die or crash their samples against the scouts themselves (destroying the samples in the process) at frame rates above 30. The only reliable way to sample at-scale is to lock your frame-rate at 30.

You can do so by going main menu -> options -> graphics -> display -> frame rate limit: set at 30 Hz -> Apply.

When not actively sampling, you're free to restore your framerate to a more tolerable value.

D) A general idea of how to use research limpets​

Best way to go about this is to drop near a star in the target system, let an interceptor spawn while moving 13-14km away, then letting scouts spawn, kill all but one marauder (or berserker), and then begin sampling activities on the remaining one.

You can (and should) use multiple research / xeno / universal active limpets at the same time on your target scout.

And don't forget your limpets while undocking!

E) Patience and commitment to the war effort​

Samples can be stored across multiple weeks (they don't "expire" or suffer from attrition) and, when used deliberately like here, will never be "wasted" - so every contribution counts, whether it's a full Cutter-load or a couple of samples dropped from a CobraMk3. You can make a difference!



- CMDR Mechan of the XSF and AXI

 

[DjVortex]

then begin sampling activities on the remaining one.

Could you explain in more detail what this means?

 

[Starsong]

Could you explain in more detail what this means?

This step involves shooting all but one Scout, then firing your research limpets at the one you haven’t killed. You want to leave only one Scout alive so you don’t take too much damage whilst sampling.

 

[Felix DiCestria]

Presumably this in the same sense that The Great War "began" in 1917.

 

[Aleks Zuno]

I have linked over to the final clean-up list here from the present inventory list—INIV is completing Cephei Sector WO-A b3 at the moment, and do note that the SNPX carrier for HIP 15415 is still in need of another ~8000 units. Everyone is also doing a most brilliant job at the Spire sites!

Cleaning up those last few strong systems may end up with a weird timetable; at present I anticipate not needing more systems ahead of destroying the Titan, in which case the slightly strange order will be Titan, then these payloads, then a Spire site perhaps in the week after next—assuming that still works after destroying the Titan.

 

[CMDR Mechan]

I have linked over to the final clean-up list here from the present inventory list—INIV is completing Cephei Sector WO-A b3 at the moment, and do note that the SNPX carrier for HIP 15415 is still in need of another ~8000 units. Everyone is also doing a most brilliant job at the Spire sites!

Cleaning up those last few strong systems may end up with a weird timetable; at present I anticipate not needing more systems ahead of destroying the Titan, in which case the slightly strange order will be Titan, then these payloads, then a Spire site perhaps in the week after next—assuming that still works after destroying the Titan.

With 8 systems left (assuming we preserve the outer spire) resistance will still be high or very high.
I'd say we go to clear the remaining 8 (or 7) systems following week, before we hit Oya proper - if we can get Oya to 0 systems left everything will go much faster.
But let's see how many samples we can collect with the "buying campaign" before we make a call. So far things are moving along nicely.

 

[Aleks Zuno]

I'd say we go to clear the remaining 8 (or 7) systems following week, before we hit Oya proper - if we can get Oya to 0 systems left everything will go much faster.

It will be seven with a complete Spire this week, and recall that:

• T. Taranis started at six and rose to seven while it was just under halfway to destruction.
• With seven Control, its remaining four-and-a-bit rings disappeared in less than two days, just before the Friday peak started!

There is some suspicion that Titan strength was increased a bit of course, although mind that being unable to finish a Titan in one week is not the same as more clearance being needed:

• If the time is actually around 7–8 days¹, then from a purely strategic view² it would be insane to spend at least five days of intense Spire siege and Research harvesting to reduce it rather than simply attacking the Titan.
• If the Titan distracts Commanders away from the Spire and vice versa, I would much prefer not to have relied upon the Spire.
• Eventually, Commanders will need to break away from thinking that the Titan is unassailable until its Control can be counted on one hand. This notion is setting up a terrible shock later, when we encounter Titans which we actually cannot get below ten or so, perhaps short of planning the largest ever synchronised eviction drive! M. Oya works only because clearing each periphery also stops the Alert attackers from blocking the next periphery, which is not the case at M. Indra, for example.

There will at least be plenty of time either way, given that M. Oya systems should not be able to attack until week 73!

1. Considering T. Leigong, I suspect the resistance may now be a plain inverse proportion, such that seven Control systems actually translates to around seven days.
2. That is to say, a view which considers the final clean-up to be a separate venture which will have all the time it needs once the Titan explodes and the attacks stop.

 

[CMDR Mechan]

It will be seven with a complete Spire this week, and recall that:

• T. Taranis started at six and rose to seven while it was just under halfway to destruction.
• With seven Control, its remaining four-and-a-bit rings disappeared in less than two days, just before the Friday peak started!

There is some suspicion that Titan strength was increased a bit of course, although mind that being unable to finish a Titan in one week is not the same as more clearance being needed:

• If the time is actually around 7–8 days¹, then from a purely strategic view² it would be insane to spend at least five days of intense Spire siege and Research harvesting to reduce it rather than simply attacking the Titan.
• If the Titan distracts Commanders away from the Spire and vice versa, I would much prefer not to have relied upon the Spire.
• Eventually, Commanders will need to break away from thinking that the Titan is unassailable until its Control can be counted on one hand. This notion is setting up a terrible shock later, when we encounter Titans which we actually cannot get below ten or so, perhaps short of planning the largest ever synchronised eviction drive! M. Oya works only because clearing each periphery also stops the Alert attackers from blocking the next periphery, which is not the case at M. Indra, for example.

There will at least be plenty of time either way, given that M. Oya systems should not be able to attack until week 73!

1. Considering T. Leigong, I suspect the resistance may now be a plain inverse proportion, such that seven Control systems actually translates to around seven days.
2. That is to say, a view which considers the final clean-up to be a separate venture which will have all the time it needs once the Titan explodes and the attacks stop.

Few things to unpack:

• We’re actively trying to preserve the outer spire. It’s a much shorter supercruise run and slightly better gravity, hence the already-announced plan is for everyone to relocate once it hits 85%. Cannot absolutely guarantee that it won’t hit 100% (as we don’t control everyone) but I would say that it is more likely than not that we can preserve it. We shall see.
• There is no evidence, or at least I haven’t personally seen any evidence, that Titan strength was increased. Our “hard data” from Cocijo implies cr22b per heart, so cr176b per Titan, in Thermal Core damage bonds. Haven’t seen this change. If you have updated/different data, by all means please share it.
• If the XSF alone needs to be relied upon to get spires to 85% quickly next week, we can probably swing it. We have stocked up on contaminated spire minerals and can chain-sabotage reliably if needed. This shouldn’t be a constrain (also considering we will hardly be alone.)
• For Titans that we “cannot” get below 10 … do not underestimate the power of the E: D community as a whole CMDR. So far sampling has counted on a small group of exceptionally determined and very efficient CMDRs. It has worked great to-date. However, I believe you are underestimating what the community is able to do when appropriately directed. Jury is out. Let’s see how gathering for next week goes based on this experiment.
• I wouldn’t rely on the progression rates of Taranis or Leigong as a predictor for Oya. For one, and most substantially, the “can damage core at any time” bug was fixed. For two, the novelty factor has worn off. Taranis was a “first”. Leigong was a “missed out on the first”. Oya is more-of-the-same.

All that being considered, my advice is “clear systems around Oya and go for Oya on April 11”.

Many voices in this debate. Others have legitimate different opinions. Let’s see where consensus lands.

Either way, these samples aren’t wasted.

 

[Aleks Zuno]

We’re actively trying to preserve the outer spire. It’s a much shorter supercruise run and slightly better gravity, hence the already-announced plan is for everyone to relocate once it hits 85%.

That is the first I have heard of not finishing the Spire this week, and for the sake of a few hundredths Earth gravity and a few more seconds to reach 1500 Ls rather than 700 Ls? Now I am questioning why INIV has just spent several days collecting 25000 units for M. Oya. If Commanders are not committed to exposing the Titan, I have half a mind to jettison it all.

There is no evidence, or at least I haven’t personally seen any evidence, that Titan strength was increased.

There are suspicions only, as I said—but if it has not increased, surely T. Oya will be as weak as T. Taranis and ought not survive until the 11th! If that is the case, the factor which keeps T. Oya alive beyond next weekend will be Commanders thinking it will be.

For Titans that we “cannot” get below 10 … do not underestimate the power of the E: D community as a whole CMDR. So far sampling has counted on a small group of exceptionally determined and very efficient CMDRs. It has worked great to-date. However, I believe you are underestimating what the community is able to do when appropriately directed.

Very much aware, myself being among said small group—but I can see a pattern emerging which will interfere with the process. Thus far, any full clearance has relied upon use of the Spires and the peripheral progress, but that only works if the Control systems are actually the peripheral systems—and hopefully you have noticed that Alerts per Maelstrom increase when we stop the attacks elsewhere.

As long as we need the peripheral progress, it matters not how many Commanders there are—we may be faced with so many Alerts that it would fill the periphery each week, and M. Indra is so dense that the respite intervals for completed systems will not be enough. It will always have more targets each week, so without new means it will need either:

• A bit of expansion, followed by a very special week in which every system in an entire 10-light-year-thick shell is removed, then repeat that monthly as opposed to weekly.
• Commanders to attack the Titan while it is stronger than usual.

 

[CMDR Mechan]

That is the first I have heard of not finishing the Spire this week, and for the sake of a few hundredths Earth gravity and a few more seconds to reach 1500 Ls rather than 700 Ls? Now I am questioning why INIV has just spent several days collecting 25000 units for M. Oya. If Commanders are not committed to exposing the Titan, I have half a mind to jettison it all.

It was CMDR Grimscrub’s suggestion. Which I get btw if the intent is to optimizing clearing next week (next week progressing either spire will progress them both … and might as well progress the easier one). Honestly I am not too fussed about this one. If the outer spire goes, it goes. Won’t personally target it so long as the plan is “April 11.”

We are certainly committing to exposing Oya. The question is just when - and what’s the best approach to exposing it. Sounds like you’re hell bent on going straight for Oya after this week. You may well be right. But you might also consider listening to other points of of view. Maybe they have a point.

A “compromised” (or even lower, if lower exists for a 0-systems Titan) Oya will go down a lot faster than a high/v.high Oya. Any alerts the following week will automatically be cleared. All efforts can then be redirected to our next target.

And if we complete our “purchasing” efforts this week or early next, we’re basically guaranteed a 0-system Oya following week with no incremental effort.

I don’t see what’s not to like about that.

There are suspicions only, as I said—but if it has not increased, surely T. Oya will be as weak as T. Taranis and ought not survive until the 11th! If that is the case, the factor which keeps T. Oya alive beyond next weekend will be Commanders thinking it will be.

See my point about relying on Taranis and Leigong progression as proxy for Oya.

Very much aware, myself being among said small group—but I can see a pattern emerging which will interfere with the process. Thus far, any full clearance has relied upon use of the Spires and the peripheral progress, but that only works if the Control systems are actually the peripheral systems—and hopefully you have noticed that Alerts per Maelstrom increase when we stop the attacks elsewhere.

As long as we need the peripheral progress, it matters not how many Commanders there are—we may be faced with so many Alerts that it would fill the periphery each week, and M. Indra is so dense that the respite intervals for completed systems will not be enough. It will always have more targets each week, so without new means it will need either:

• A bit of expansion, followed by a very special week in which every system in an entire 10-light-year-thick shell is removed, then repeat that monthly as opposed to weekly.
• Commanders to attack the Titan while it is stronger than usual.

You know the system way better than I do. But I know enough to know that at the ranges currently applicable to Indra, a concerted campaign can clear dozens and dozens of systems per week, well beyond the outer ten.

 

[Grimscrub]

Well, lovely things to wake up to. For note, it had been meant** as an advisory/suggestion in the post, not a flat order to everyone who dared look at our targets.

The gravity is Higher at Lyncis spire for the record, it isn't pure laziness or whatever. The rough thoughts were,
A - Minimizing the round trip time to maximize the efficiency of spire efforts, for fear of 85% achievability being impacted by double the commute Every, Single, Run.

B - Allowing the pilots who Exclusively work spires the extra time to R&R at a lower grav spire - helping other regions keep Some systems where we can at least, while also giving them time to cool down and not strangle each other -- tempers ran Excessively high in the early weeks when people were left at the oya spires and their ~9 times the gravity people were used to week-in, week-out, leading to bulk unfriendly fire incidents and verbal conflict due to any and all patience being worn down.
-- So, aim of keeping fatigue under control there, ensuring I can convince people to listen to the next spire target/s, rather than facing another early war situ like Scythia or Lubal where people gave up on my targets entirely at times and routed wherever regardless of any war plan.

C - Leigong titan at 3 systems taking til the Saturday - even with the heavy efforts I could see both in-game and across the discords/etc. I had comms with - made my optimism about a one-week clear at 7 evaporate, quite frankly. But, that's my own head problem, it just factored in to wanting to have best possible odds of spire progress being achievable if the week fell through.


In the end Lyncis wise, I was fine with it either completing or not completing, it was merely a thought - similarly in past weeks I had 'proposed' spires in target posts at points (While we effectively had none at Leigong and pilots were twiddling their thumbs for instance) for people to discuss in-server/etc. and get consensus on. I do not claim to be some omniscient git, sometimes I'm unsure on things and want to suggest/discuss them and see if my mangled thoughts made any sense to someone else on the matter.

The idea being mentioned of just flatly dumping what, ~125-170+ man hours plus worth of effort over the titan potentially taking One additional week and being firmly nailed to the wall, cleanup minimised etc... concerns me.


-- Post-coffee addendum
Apologies if the tone is a bit off in all the above, woke up at 2am after dealing with some senseless arguing off-elite and was pinged into things, may be a bit off-kilter. have the utmost respect and am very aware we couldn't have gotten where we are both pre and post titan accessibility without INIV, SNPX and many, many, Many more across all sides of the war - Taranis would never have been at 6 systems to Be a week one clear, Leigong would've been in the dozens at best, Oya wouldn't have been kept in check, Hadad wouldn't have stayed under control/be getting soft-prepped in the background, and so on, and so on.
I'll try to work on comms skills both internal and external -- evidently what i'd meant with lyncis didn't translate internally either.

 

[Felix DiCestria]

There's a decent chance of disposing of Oya next week or a risky idea of maintaining two spires for no significant benefit.
The difference in Gravity and Supercruise are minimal.
The Spires have been getting hit since before Leigong popped. Get it done.

 

[Grimscrub]

Prior to Oya, interim spires had been seeing ~40% per week average since back during the november pushes, even with the same spire listed as a priority target months in a row. people have been putting their back into it substantially since. whether that will be notably impeded with the doubled interdiction window for every last pilot, on Every last run...

But, feedback asked, feedback given. removed the note about it, we'll see how the week goes - functionally we hadn't even hit the 85 yet for lyncis so, it should mean nothing.

If Oya does Not fall, may the secondary path go smoothly on cephei then.

 

[Aleks Zuno]

I think we prefer calculated over hell-bent, although indeed the effect can be similar! Much difference occurs via definitions, strategic versus literal.

To us, what matters most is that the Alert attacks stop, which happens only when the Titan is destroyed, and having seven Control rather than eight both hastens that and attracts more total Titan attackers. After that occurs, the remaining systems stop attacking, so they are neutral, so they are gone from the war—see also HIP 8825 and HIP 24329, two previous M. Oya systems which became Control when it arrived but cannot attack anything due to range and thus had zero priority at the Imperial Navy mathematics department. Loose systems may not be gone literally, but they are gone strategically!

That is not to suggest a clean-up is wrong, far from it—that costs one Spire week either way though, so for a separate zero-Control goal my suggestion would be:

• Complete Lyncis Sector WU-P b5-0 this week 70, and let background Titan attacks commence with as much efficacy as the full ten-system periphery can afford.
• Depending on Research rate, take a full week 71 away from Spires and build the stockpiles instead, then return to Cephei Sector XO-A b3 in week 72.

Given that seven systems is the best to be done this week for Titan attackers, I think that becomes close to the best one can do for both goals.

Regarding Supercruise, I promise it is not a doubling, for what matters there is time as opposed to distance! From arrival to open space, 700 Ls should be ~77 seconds and 1500 Ls should be ~99 seconds. Already that is only two-sevenths or 28% more time, and including the planet approach only narrows that relative difference, for such adds close enough to equal time either way. It will be quite fine, it does much for Commanders eyeing the Titan, and I am quite sure the extra Carrier parking spaces will be welcome!

 

[CMDR Mechan]

Ok - thank you for explaining your reasoning Aleks. I believe I now fully appreciate where the disconnect lies. It lies in our different expectations of how progress for Oya will unfold come Thursday, with it going down to 7 or 8 systems, and presumably “High” damage resistance.

You’re assuming that Oya will proceed to be damaged at or around the pace of Taranis and Leigong. I am assuming a MUCH slower pace. As a consequence, you’re advocating to hit it next week, and I am advocating to rather clear its systems and hit it the following.

Let me elaborate as to my reasoning as why I believe Oya will be a LOT slower:
A) First, and most importantly, the novelty has worn off. Taranis was a “be there at the defining moment of this gaming franchise”. Leigong was “I missed Taranis and want to experience it first hand.” Oya is more of the same. This factor alone, I would ascribe a -30/50% rate to.
B) Second, the “damage core at all times” bug was fixed. While it hadn’t been discovered as such in time for Leigong, and thus there is little evidence of it being intentionally abused, the damage still added up, as people kept firing as the core started retracting. I give this factor a -10/20% rate factor guesstimate.
C) Third, the supercruise (and thus interdictions) to Oya is MUCH longer than anything before, greatly discouraging multiple trips to the Titan as the experience to get there is, frankly, miserable. I’d give this another -10/20% rate factor decrease.
D) Fourth, unlike Leigong and Taranis, and even if we let the Lycis system go to 100% this week, Oya has an active inner spire in the last 10, and we’re well on our way to gathering enough samples to clear the whole inner 10 in one week. For Leigong and Taranis, it was not practical to decrease their resistances further, for Oya, it very much is. This will at the very least split commitments. I’d give this enough -20/30% rate factor decrease.

There are a couple of counter-balancing factors as well:
E) More and more people have built TitanKillers and TitanBombers. I believe the incremental number from Leigong to be small. I’d give this a +5/10% rate factor.
F) Folks who care about “getting an 8-star decal” may have FOMO and get active sooner. I believe this factor to be very small as well, and more applicable once we get to 3/4 hearts left. I’d give it a +5/10% rate factor.

Now you can see why I seriously doubt that Oya will fall the week of April 4, and why I would rather focus on clearing its outer systems next week.

For reference - my data-driven pre-tick guess on the fall of Leigong was 66 hours from the tick; it turned out to be 63 hours.

I haven’t really quantified it for Oya - but it’ll be multiple times that if resistance lands at “high.”

So might as well clear it and get it to zero and wreck it with “compromised” or (if it exists) “none” on April 11.

That’s the reasoning from my end at least.

 

[Kira Goto]

Worst case scenario, we'll just see this coming cycle that Oya at High resistance is still a little too much work such that it is/was* worth investing the time to clean up the remaining controls before bringing it down.

*Was since this particular collection drive appears to be decently underway already.

 

[Blaggerdy]

D) Fourth, unlike Leigong and Taranis, and even if we let the Lycis system go to 100% this week, Oya has an active inner spire in the last 10, and we’re well on our way to gathering enough samples to clear the whole inner 10 in one week. For Leigong and Taranis, it was not practical to decrease their resistances further, for Oya, it very much is. This will at the very least split commitments. I’d give this enough -20/30% rate factor decrease.

That's the interesting bit for me. If there is a harder Titan later with an active inner spire, and we didn't reduce Oya to 0 we'd be left with a question around which way to go. Oya is achievable either way and reducing to 0 would help shape later plans

 

[Aleks Zuno]

To be sure, a week 71 clearance is quite fine! It is really only the idea of leaving a non-final Matrix system active which causes a Research wing to question what it is doing.

 

[CMDR Mechan]

To be sure, a week 71 clearance is quite fine! It is really only the idea of leaving a non-final Matrix system active which causes a Research wing to question what it is doing.

All alerts (if any) will auto-clear following week. Should make no difference in practice, assuming that indeed progress on Oya will be slower than the past 2?

 

[Aleks Zuno]

All alerts (if any) will auto-clear following week. Should make no difference in practice, assuming that indeed progress on Oya will be slower than the past 2?

Ah! I was not worried about a Titan Alert from T. Oya in the same context as I was regarding T. Leigong a while ago; the latter had HIP 8033 as an immediate target, and that was prior to the announcement—and indeed probably caused said announcement.

At T. Oya there is much time either way:

• With a full peripheral clearing this week 70 then not relying on anything further, the next attack should be against Ardhri at the end of week 73, which of course will not become Control for a while. The end of week 74 would cause many other Alerts though, so it would have to explode before week 75 ends.
• With a full Maelstrom clearing in week 71 or beyond, the Titan target should become Lhou Mans at the end of week 74. That has one port but still takes a few weeks to reach Control, meanwhile HIP 15415 gets attacked at the end of week 76. The Titan should get a third attack after week 78 before anything Lhou Mans attacks reaches Control, where now the costly Cephei Sector XO-A b2 will be its target, so the Titan would have to explode before week 79 ends.

In particular, having much time either way makes a Titan attack a strategic choice—that is to say, merely strategic to consider it as opposed to being wrong to ignore it—but where leaving a non-final Spire around without much non-Titan consequence is a fair blow to others who would choose the former.