Engineers The Imperial Hammer: Beautiful and well-thought concept, but needs some minor adjustments

Today I'd like to discuss the Imperial Hammer, the three-round burst railgun that can be obtained by powerplay.

I recently went into testing it, and thanks to the CG I had quite a good amount of well-equipped targets of any ship class. I tried the lightweight and long-range engineer ennhancements and the feedback cascade, plasma slug and super penetrator experimentals.

Now, let's get to tho the tests: I treid their performace compared to small and medium normal rail guns, also with the same experimental effects and modifications. I have used a python and an aspX as the ships to run the trials with, my hitrate with either of the railgun version has been very high with both ships. Hitting vipers and cobras was hardest because of their incredibly good frontal combat profile (thin as a piece of paper). Still, my hitrate was around 90% with both hammers and normal rails. I ran different setups with two and four rails each and one or two thermal vent long-range beams to keep the ship cool while firing.

My conclusions were as follows: Even when constantly hitting all three rounds with the imperial hammer they are not as effective as normal railguns. The heat buildup cost of the hammers is way too high to compensate for the increased damage, which can't be dealt as fast and reliable as with the normal railguns. The forgivingness of the hammers when missing is also set off by the heat: You can miss one shot and still hit the other two, however to be able to actually able to deal more damage you have to hit 100%, which is very hard especially on fast ships like eagles, vultures, cobras or vipers that only stand still for very short times and then boost, a normal railgun shines a lot more here due to the fact that you can deal all damage in this one, decisive moment.

Surprisingly, the hammers have also been less effective versus huge ships such as the corvette. Due to their higher heat buildup you will even cook up a python in eight to ten shots while firing a thermal vent beam. The Hammer also uses more distributor power than the normal railgun, which can further lead to cooking your ship up. This makes the weapon that deals more burst-dps actually look worse in encounters where you need constant fire, like fighting a conda, vette or cutter. In the end you get around 10 more DPS for a significant increase in reactor draw, heat buildup, ammo cost and a longer needed focus-time. I feel like it's actually a downgrade to the normal rails in most situations. Additionally it will also make the Plasma Slug experimental effect way less effective, as one burst reload costs 3x the fuel of one normal railgun shot, wearing down even the biggest fuel tanks in no time and making using normal ammo the more effective choice.

The concept of a burst-railgun that required steadier aim and better leading and tracking for an increased reward is a really good idea, however the fact that even when reaching the higher skillcap of this weapon the reward in field effectivity is nullified by its stats, I feel a bit disappointed.

I suggest the following minor adjustments to make it more worthwhile:

- Make the plasma slug experimental effect consume less fuel and give the gun a higher ammo cap with cheaper ammo to restock.

- To compensate for the longer burst, decrease wind-up time.

- Decrease power draw and distributor draw, the challenge of having to hit all three shots is enough.

- Decrease heat buildup to equal a normal railgun

What do we have with this? We still get a weapon requiring more skill to be effective at around the same energy cost and draw, keeping the burst-idea but being freed of the unnecessary downsides of the weapon.

Thanks for reading!
 
I would love to buy these for credits. Because I don't PowerPlay, I don't like it.
But I wouldn't mind a chance of buying these and other PP modules!

Its content I have purchased with the game, any chance FD?
 
@ OD, yes they can.


I use Hammers and rails all over the place.

OP painting with too broad of a brush.

I have a field day with 2 Hammers and 2 rails, all feedback set to one trigger, on my 'Vette.
It eats big ship shields quite quickly, and the feedback mod has that great 40% thermal reduction, as does super pen.

I even use a Hammer on my Courier, works great!
Also have 2 on my FDL.

I like how you don't have to let go of the trigger.

Being a little off with a rail often means getting 0% damage.
Not so with Hammers.
 
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I would love to buy these for credits. Because I don't PowerPlay, I don't like it.
But I wouldn't mind a chance of buying these and other PP modules!

Its content I have purchased with the game, any chance FD?

Ya, the 'content you have paid for' in this situation is PP with special weapons availble for actually engaging with that content. Technically, we've paid for 'all the content', so by your logic we should have access to unlocking all engineers with credits, access to the new guardian tech with credits, etc.
 
@ OD, yes they can.


I use Hammers and rails all over the place.

OP painting with too broad of a brush.

I have a field day with 2 Hammers and 2 rails, all feedback set to one trigger, on my 'Vette.
It eats big ship shields quite quickly, and the feedback mod has that great 40% thermal reduction, as does super pen.

I even use a Hammer on my Courier, works great!
Also have 2 on my FDL.

I like how you don't have to let go of the trigger.

Being a little off with a rail often means getting 0% damage.
Not so with Hammers.

As you can see in the OP i was using the rails with all of the thermal load reducing experimentals. I'm not saying rails or hammers are bad. I'm saying that the hammers don't give enough for what they take. Ofc you will take down larger ships with them quite good, but you will simply do so better with normal rails, ofc depending on the number of them and what ship you have. But where railguns really shine is smaller ships (as in not the big three), because they can level the field between the low-damage small hardpoints at the cost of skill investment. Ofc you won't cook if you use one or two of them on a corvette, you can even put four guardian rails on a corvette without cooking up.

I also covered the point that you can get some damage out of a half-missed shot, but normally you don't miss, and using the hammers elevates the skill-requirement while also needing more energy, heat, distributor draw. As i said, the three shot concept is fine, the other increased needs and drawbacks are unnecessary though. And then you have to go through the powerplay hassle to get them.
 
This has already been studied in detail, ftr.



With it’s 20% faster r.o.f., a Hammer provides 129.4% of the dps of a medium rail


The Hammers’ higher heat generation operates to balance their otherwise overwhelming dps advantage over rails somewhat – the full dps of five rails is far more accessible than that of five Hammers…

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/236030-Truesilver-s-Tests-No-1-The-Imperial-Hammer


The Hammers do significantly more damage, and the extra heat makes perfect sense.
The trade off between burst and single shot is valid, but it's a trade off, not a win/lose proposition.
It's all provisional and scaled pretty well.
 
So that part is flat out wrong.

Effectivity is not DPS, it's the combination of its stats and how well the weapon performs compared to its requirements. For the hammer the gain in penalties outweighs its gain in damage. It also performs a lot worse with plasma slug, swallowing the same fuel per shot as a normal rail, making it effectively worse even when running 64 fuel than when it uses normal ammo. See below.

This has already been studied in detail, ftr.








https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/236030-Truesilver-s-Tests-No-1-The-Imperial-Hammer


The Hammers do significantly more damage, and the extra heat makes perfect sense.
The trade off between burst and single shot is valid, but it's a trade off, not a win/lose proposition.
It's all provisional and scaled pretty well.


Did you try it instead of looking at pure DPS-values? I mean combat, not having a friend sitting before you and firing a salvo on his shields.

Also the thread you state says exactly the same thing as me "Hammers cause a greater heat increase in the firing vessel’s temperature than rails. This is of little consequence if firing one weapon. However, the difference is significant – perhaps catastrophically so - when (a) multiple Hammers are fired simultaneously and/or (b) maximum rate of fire (i.e. holding the trigger down) is employed" exactly, DPS on paper is good but you won't get off with this on most ships because you die of heat before even being able to get out enough bursts to deal effective DPS over more than 4 seconds. The thermal load increase is also higher than the damage increase, paired with the higher distributor draw you gain even more heat. Additionally you actually have to hit all three rounds, which is easy on large ships but for the faster ones your Damage per heat, damage per energy and damage per burst will decrease dramatically.
 
Effectivity is not DPS, it's the combination of its stats and how well the weapon performs compared to its requirements. For the hammer the gain in penalties outweighs its gain in damage. It also performs a lot worse with plasma slug, swallowing the same fuel per shot as a normal rail, making it effectively worse even when running 64 fuel than when it uses normal ammo. See below.




Did you try it instead of looking at pure DPS-values? I mean combat, not having a friend sitting before you and firing a salvo on his shields.

Also the thread you state says exactly the same thing as me "Hammers cause a greater heat increase in the firing vessel’s temperature than rails. This is of little consequence if firing one weapon. However, the difference is significant – perhaps catastrophically so - when (a) multiple Hammers are fired simultaneously and/or (b) maximum rate of fire (i.e. holding the trigger down) is employed" exactly, DPS on paper is good but you won't get off with this on most ships because you die of heat before even being able to get out enough bursts to deal effective DPS over more than 4 seconds. The thermal load increase is also higher than the damage increase, paired with the higher distributor draw you gain even more heat. Additionally you actually have to hit all three rounds, which is easy on large ships but for the faster ones your Damage per heat, damage per energy and damage per burst will decrease dramatically.



You specified "constantly" and "all three rounds" and in that respect, yes it is wrong.

Like I said, "it's a trade off".


This is the part I take contention with:

My conclusions were as follows: Even when constantly hitting all three rounds with the imperial hammer they are not as effective as normal railguns.
 
Just FYI, most of the PP modules are junk. If they're going to "fix" IH (haven't used them, so can't comment on their efficacy), they need to "fix" all the others as well.
 
Yes. This is a huge fuel wasting problem. It eats 3x the fuel for only a little more total damage output. =useless

I wouldn't call it useless. It depends on how long you like to stay at a CZ or RES for. I never leave home without a fuel tank and my hammer lasts loooong after I've fired my last Pack Hound missile (with doubled ammo). Just not having to synthesize ammo is a great plus. Besides, I like taking a breath every 20 minutes or so, so going back to refuel every so often is all good
 
Just FYI, most of the PP modules are junk. If they're going to "fix" IH (haven't used them, so can't comment on their efficacy), they need to "fix" all the others as well.

I have yet to try others. Pack-hounds are fun and great if an enemy runs point-def but only good for short encounters even with a g5 max ammo modification you'll run out of ammo really fast. Some really look not attractive at all, like the mining lance, others look really well like the pacifiers or advanced PAs. Balancing these weapons is a must IMO, just like every other weapon in the game. Maybe this is why some superpowers actually have not so many supporters?

I wouldn't call it useless. It depends on how long you like to stay at a CZ or RES for. I never leave home without a fuel tank and my hammer lasts loooong after I've fired my last Pack Hound missile (with doubled ammo). Just not having to synthesize ammo is a great plus. Besides, I like taking a breath every 20 minutes or so, so going back to refuel every so often is all good

It does, of course depend on how many hammers you run. But one hammer needs 3x the fuel of a normal rail and it's really hard to sacrifice optionals on some ships for fuel tanks. My asp with two hammers ran out incredibly quick, I just got a conda and will see how 2-4x hammers with two extra 64 tanks will do.

So a 'hammer' with super pen should be a very nice tool for module sniping I would think, and the heat reduction should compensate for hammer's "warm glow". My alt CMDR (an Imperial loyalist) owns a few IMs, so perhaps I will try this.

This depends, for module sniping you might want all the damage on one module, depending on your convergence and distance it might be harder to actually deal significant module damage before the enemy ship dies of hull loss. However if you want to damage as many modules as possible in one shot you can "sweep" over enemy ships, but then you could also use missiles or high-yield large or huge cannons. The heat reduction is significant for super pen, as for feedback cascade and plasma slug, but even then the heat of even two hammers will be incredible.
 
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