The Juicy Feedback Fdev was wanting. The reason Open sucks for everybody.

[ALGOMATIC]

What we should do is nothing, except to remind those that see only the shooting, that you can only expect to shoot at those that enjoy being shot at. I am generally an advocate of leaving open as is, and just getting on with playing. Forget about all of those players that choose to log-in in Solo. Forget about all of those players that choose to log-in in a Private Group. Concentrate of finding what you want with who's willing to join you.

I know you, Al, individually may not have suggested limiting Solo/PG access to the BGS, or to create incentives to playing in open. But, that is what this thread is about. The OP makes the argument that open deserves to be the benchmark for how the game is played, and should be held above the other modes. Forget about that as well. Just as your interests in the game differs from Eldragon's, there are many that don't see the game the way the OP does. I don't. Conversations like these could cease if we could all just let people play as they want, and use the tools we have to find the environment we each enjoy best, without having the other side complain.

That's what this thread is, a complaint that thousands of other players play differently, and a plea to make them stop. Ridiculous.

I am very much suggesting to remove SOLO and PG or at least stop them from affecting the BGS and PP and give some meaning to PVP in open.
Whoever doesnt want to get shot should stay away from the hot spots which can be counted on one hand (CG, Exploit systems, PP headquarters and Eravate). 99.9% of the systems in the bubble are empty and you can play "solo" while mining and shooting NPCs.

If, however, you want to be a part of the PP war, you will have to interact with other cmdrs using your guns. Same thing for BGS. That is my stance on this matter, many agree with me but majority disagrees and FDEV will not do anything to change this structure and PP will continue be a specific module grind.

 

[Mohrgan]

I am very much suggesting to remove SOLO and PG or at least stop them from affecting the BGS and PP and give some meaning to PVP in open.
Whoever doesnt want to get shot should stay away from the hot spots which can be counted on one hand (CG, Exploit systems, PP headquarters and Eravate). 99.9% of thr systems in the bubble are empty and you can play "solo" while mining and shooting NPCs.

If, however, you want to be a part of the PP war, you will have to interact with other cmdrs using your guns. Same thing for BGS. That is my stance on this matter, many agree with me but majority disagrees and FDEV will not do anything to change this structure and PP will continue be a specific module grind.

Forgetting entirely that the game's design does not now, nor will it ever be likely to reflect your views. You bought the game, with PvP included, that also included the three modes, and a BGS shared not only by those three modes, but with console players on platforms you may never be able to interact with. You didn't buy a PvP game with some PvE thrown is as a second thought. You bought virtually the opposite. How can you justify one aspect of the game, as it's defining feature, when everything you can see tells you otherwise? What did you think about when you bought the game? "Right, it isn't what I want, but I can make them change it."?

 

[thirstyfish]

What we should do is nothing, except to remind those that see only the shooting, that you can only expect to shoot at those that enjoy being shot at. I am generally an advocate of leaving open as is, and just getting on with playing. Forget about all of those players that choose to log-in in Solo. Forget about all of those players that choose to log-in in a Private Group. Concentrate of finding what you want with who's willing to join you.

I know you, Al, individually may not have suggested limiting Solo/PG access to the BGS, or to create incentives to playing in open. But, that is what this thread is about. The OP makes the argument that open deserves to be the benchmark for how the game is played, and should be held above the other modes. Forget about that as well. Just as your interests in the game differs from Eldragon's, there are many that don't see the game the way the OP does. I don't. Conversations like these could cease if we could all just let people play as they want, and use the tools we have to find the environment we each enjoy best, without having the other side complain.

That's what this thread is, a complaint that thousands of other players play differently, and a plea to make them stop. Ridiculous.

^this. rep has been given.

 

[Theodrid]

I am very much suggesting to remove SOLO and PG or at least stop them from affecting the BGS and PP and give some meaning to PVP in open.
Whoever doesnt want to get shot should stay away from the hot spots which can be counted on one hand (CG, Exploit systems, PP headquarters and Eravate). 99.9% of the systems in the bubble are empty and you can play "solo" while mining and shooting NPCs.

If, however, you want to be a part of the PP war, you will have to interact with other cmdrs using your guns. Same thing for BGS. That is my stance on this matter, many agree with me but majority disagrees and FDEV will not do anything to change this structure and PP will continue be a specific module grind.

You have no right to even suggest that solo and PG players should not be able to participate in PP and the BGS, you see, thousands upon thousands of those same players paid for Elite Dangerous - all of it - just as you did, including those bits you now wish to take away from them.

 

[Roninpaul]

Make insurance only for non wanted people , and make it cheap say .5% and charge a daily policy fee . This will encourage cmdrs to play in open and engage in fights without Alt F4 logging.

or better still give us another enemy to fight together, to keep the bubble open

 

[ForeverN00b]

At any rate. I'd be interested to see how frontier takes this feedback. Or if they have anything to say about it at all.

As a PVPer, and as MANY MANY other PVPers will tell you.

If we grind and grind and grind and its still unbalanced for us. the "small" part of the community. Then its unbalanced for the rest of you.

Someone could get in an engineered cobra. Rip a whole wing a players apart by theirself, because they had the chance to learn and get some of the highest rolls possible. Something thats not available to everyone else unless they directly spend the same amount of time.

And as for PVPers vs PVPers. We are turning out g5 rolls into what a g7 roll would be. And when we do that to tankiness or offensive stats. Even the dudes with "good" rolls are still effected.
Like AGONY AUNT here, https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...or-everybody?p=5906411&viewfull=1#post5906411

"For those who hate the RNG of Engineers, visited Palin this morning.

Got greater 30% on optimal multiplier and and minimal negative on optimal mass. Not quite god roll but damn good... oh yeah, on first roll.

RNGesus loves me! Praise RNGesus!

(of course i know i'm going to get stiffed by the next engineer i visit due to making this post)."

Now Im glad hes happy. But as soon as I out run or out gun him. The time Ive spent to brute force engineers effects him, and will effect EVERYONE else in the galaxy thats in open as soon as my bullets touch his hull.

However, in the perfect world. We would have the same rolls we went out of our way to get, with special effects to make them unique. And he could turn around and stomp my butt. But in stats alone they would lose by default.

Again, if the Engineers are unbalanced for us PVPers. Then the rest of you dont stand a chance. The only thing ya'll can do is run and high-wake away. And thats not fun for you, and thats not fun for us. Cause trust me, people want to fight back. But its not worth their time. And its not worth their credits.

Thats why the "pvp community" is so small. It used to not be. As a matter of fact thats how I found out what Elite Dangerous was. I seen a pvp video and was hooked. I didnt see what we normally do ala screenshot simulator. I seen engagements. And people wonder why these engagements are looked down upon or people feel "griefed". Its because their time is impacted as they learn and they lose too much because of it.

Its like playing with a cat and a piece of string. If the cat never gets to touch that piece of string and play with it. They will ignore it over time. Its not that they dont want to play with it either.

Anyways, hope frontier has read this thread. I hope they at least see the issues here. And that the pvpers are literally asking for our stat-balled ships to be taken away so everyone can obtain the same "gear" and defend theirself or fight back as deemed necessary.

Other wise, we rule open with a iron fist turning every "good guy" into a "bad guy" just because they like PVP.

Honestly, I think the whole casino approach to engineering is something FD concocted at a board meeting.

It goes something like this: "How do we keep player retention while reigning in powercreep?"

"Let the results of engineers be somewhat random, within a spectrum of outcomes. That way, a person with 100 rolls will end up with a 10-15% better module than the guy who has 3 rolls."

"Sounds grand. The person who devotes 1000 hours isn't much better off than the guy who devotes 100."

"Exactly. It only matters in a small market segment that we don't appeal to anyway. The logical player."

"Give this man a raise."

 

[GreyAreaUK]

What we should do is nothing, except to remind those that see only the shooting, that you can only expect to shoot at those that enjoy being shot at. I am generally an advocate of leaving open as is, and just getting on with playing. Forget about all of those players that choose to log-in in Solo. Forget about all of those players that choose to log-in in a Private Group. Concentrate of finding what you want with who's willing to join you.

I know you, Al, individually may not have suggested limiting Solo/PG access to the BGS, or to create incentives to playing in open. But, that is what this thread is about. The OP makes the argument that open deserves to be the benchmark for how the game is played, and should be held above the other modes. Forget about that as well. Just as your interests in the game differs from Eldragon's, there are many that don't see the game the way the OP does. I don't. Conversations like these could cease if we could all just let people play as they want, and use the tools we have to find the environment we each enjoy best, without having the other side complain.

That's what this thread is, a complaint that thousands of other players play differently, and a plea to make them stop. Ridiculous.

This post is brilliant, and should be made part of the T&C that you agree to before playing the game.

 

[thirstyfish]

This post is brilliant, and should be made part of the T&C that you agree to before playing the game.

And T&C for the forums too.

 

[B1rdy]

I do think (and i think some PvEers and PvPers alike will hate this so its probably not even me having a PvE bias) that FD should push on through and release the shield changes they have twice tried to implement over 2.2 and 2.3 betas.

its a bit of a joke that people can build an invincible ship.

I agree. It is even worse that non-combat ship still would not stand a change or have even less change of survival.

Again, if the Engineers are unbalanced for us PVPers. Then the rest of you dont stand a chance. The only thing ya'll can do is run and high-wake away. And thats not fun for you, and thats not fun for us. Cause trust me, people want to fight back. But its not worth their time. And its not worth their credits.

I doubt, anyone in a non-combat ship (maybe apart from a Cutter) wants to fight back.

 

[ForeverN00b]

I agree. It is even worse that non-combat ship still would not stand a change or have even less change of survival.
I doubt, anyone in a non-combat ship (maybe apart from a Cutter) wants to fight back.

These things were true before engineers. Engineers made it worse but what you said was still true in 2.0

 

[Cmdr Esteban]

So Open sucks, eh? Sorry, that's not news.

Anyway, come on over to Mobius where there are none of those problems:

https://elitepve.com/

Ditch Open, you don't need it.

 

[ForeverN00b]

Ditch Open, you don't need it.

Until you've killed your 5000th NPC amd you want the Dangerous that was promised to you.

Open is a shark tank.....at CG systems. Everywhere else it resembles solo/mobius.

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

So Open sucks, eh? Sorry, that's not news.

Anyway, come on over to Mobius where there are none of those problems:

https://elitepve.com/

Ditch Open, you don't need it.

Im a part of mobius already. I use it from time to time. Been a while though.

However, this thread is about open and the incentives to play in it. What makes open different from any other game mode? People dont need open to play this game. You can accomplish everything else in this game you want besides shooting at each other for various reasons.

Ya'll are mad at me cause im wanting meat and context to a game mode. Yet we still get the complaints "OMG HE SHOT ME FOR NO REASON".

There needs to be a reason to play in open. Incentive for your risks.

Hell, World of Warcraft did the same thing with WINTERGRASP for PVE severs. You were automatically flagged. But spawn rates for materials were higher and POI's popped up a lot more.

Its a simple Risk Vs Reward. Just like you're lobbying for people to join mobius. Its a great Idea, glad it exists in the end. It suits a playstyle. A playstyle of not getting impacted by other commanders.

So #1 People shouldnt be able to impact me from a private group if you took the time to click a third party website just to go out of the way so people wouldnt be able to effect you.

and

#2 People click that link to reduce those risks. Simple Fact. Even if its to enjoy PVE content. All of their rules revolve around the way PVP impacts others in this game.

So yeah, I guess I am asking for change. People should be rewarded for those efforts they take in a riskier mode. I dont see why this is a bad thing.

Along with the engineers I mentioned at the top of this thread.

 

[Mohrgan]

Im a part of mobius already. I use it from time to time. Been a while though.

However, this thread is about open and the incentives to play in it. What makes open different from any other game mode? People dont need open to play this game. You can accomplish everything else in this game you want besides shooting at each other for various reasons.

Ya'll are mad at me cause im wanting meat and context to a game mode. Yet we still get the complaints "OMG HE SHOT ME FOR NO REASON".

There needs to be a reason to play in open. Incentive for your risks.

Hell, World of Warcraft did the same thing with WINTERGRASP for PVE severs. You were automatically flagged. But spawn rates for materials were higher and POI's popped up a lot more.

Its a simple Risk Vs Reward. Just like you're lobbying for people to join mobius. Its a great Idea, glad it exists in the end. It suits a playstyle. A playstyle of not getting impacted by other commanders.

So #1 People shouldnt be able to impact me from a private group if you took the time to click a third party website just to go out of the way so people wouldnt be able to effect you.

and

#2 People click that link to reduce those risks. Simple Fact. Even if its to enjoy PVE content. All of their rules revolve around the way PVP impacts others in this game.

So yeah, I guess I am asking for change. People should be rewarded for those efforts they take in a riskier mode. I dont see why this is a bad thing.

Along with the engineers I mentioned at the top of this thread.

This thread is about viewing open as the basis of the game, when it isn't. Open is nothing more than a matchmaking choice you make when logging into the game. All modes and platforms have equal access to the basic functions of the game. To change that, would be to devalue the game for all of those players that prefer to play in Solo or PG's for no reason other than arrogance. the arrogance to assume open is special. It isn't. And, it never was. Al three of the modes were part of the game right from the start.

If a consumer buys a product that consumer should know what the product does. If they don't, they should find out, before buying the product. If they do decide to buy a product, with out understanding it, they only have themselves to blame.

The bottom line is: You can only expect to play along side those that enjoy the same environment as you. Nothing more. I don't expect those in open to play as I wish to. And, you don;t see me telling them that they should. I expect the rest of the player base to do the same. You knew the rules coming in, learn to live with them. We will all be happier if you can.

 

[GreyAreaUK]

This thread is about viewing open as the basis of the game, when it isn't. Open is nothing more than a matchmaking choice you make when logging into the game. All modes and platforms have equal access to the basic functions of the game. To change that, would be to devalue the game for all of those players that prefer to play in Solo or PG's for no reason other than arrogance. the arrogance to assume open is special. It isn't. And, it never was. Al three of the modes were part of the game right from the start.

If a consumer buys a product that consumer should know what the product does. If they don't, they should find out, before buying the product. If they do decide to buy a product, with out understanding it, they only have themselves to blame.

The bottom line is: You can only expect to play along side those that enjoy the same environment as you. Nothing more. I don't expect those in open to play as I wish to. And, you don;t see me telling them that they should. I expect the rest of the player base to do the same. You knew the rules coming in, learn to live with them. We will all be happier if you can.

I can't Rep you again, but please know that I tried to.

 

[ALGOMATIC]

This thread is about viewing open as the basis of the game, when it isn't. Open is nothing more than a matchmaking choice you make when logging into the game. All modes and platforms have equal access to the basic functions of the game. To change that, would be to devalue the game for all of those players that prefer to play in Solo or PG's for no reason other than arrogance. the arrogance to assume open is special. It isn't. And, it never was. Al three of the modes were part of the game right from the start.

If a consumer buys a product that consumer should know what the product does. If they don't, they should find out, before buying the product. If they do decide to buy a product, with out understanding it, they only have themselves to blame.

The bottom line is: You can only expect to play along side those that enjoy the same environment as you. Nothing more. I don't expect those in open to play as I wish to. And, you don;t see me telling them that they should. I expect the rest of the player base to do the same. You knew the rules coming in, learn to live with them. We will all be happier if you can.

This game is advertised as a multiplayer game where you can hunt other cmdrs among other things.

PG and solo are not the msinstream modes. This is a MUTIPLAYER game, solo doesnt fit that description, PG - sort of.

Open is the primary mode. Devs play in open on streams. Lore events such as Salome is open only.

You have other modes from reasons I wont write here, this is an open multiplayer game in its core.

 

[jasonbarron]

As long as ED is a constantly evolving product I don't see why 90's expectations can't be soberly considered instead of just dismissively waving them away.

Just because Fdev is currently strapped down to the concept of appeasing the crowd who want the same access and ability to effect the game universe without the same level of risk as Open players doesn't mean they won't eventually snap out of their trance.

 

[WindWpn]

Yea, I read the OP, and thought of the famous Star Trek Bones (McCoy) quote: "Good god man...."

This fear of Open is sooooo enormously overblown that is it borders on paranoid nonsense. The only time u may run into a CMDR in Open is in popular systems or a CG. If you are out in the bubble in some offshoot system, your odds of seeing another CMDR are next to nil. Simple fact. Remember only something like 0.0001% of the ED galaxy is even charted!

Now even if you visit a fairly popular system, even then there may be many hollows, but in reality only a very minuscule percentage will interdict and blow you up. Granted, best to keep good SA when in popular space, but overall, its not nearly as bad as the OP makes it seem.

There is no need to do anything regarding balance or what not, as in reality there is no issue. If anything, the only moments of "thought" now in ED is when you enter a popular system in Open and that little bit of unpredictability offered by CMDRs as compared to NPCs.

 

[ALGOMATIC]

As long as ED is a constantly evolving product I don't see why 90's expectations can't be soberly considered instead of just dismissively waving them away.

Just because Fdev is currently strapped down to the concept of appeasing the crowd who want the same access and ability to effect the game universe without the same level of risk as Open players doesn't mean they won't eventually snap out of their trance.

Yeap. Amen.

 

[Eldragon]

What we should do is nothing, except to remind those that see only the shooting, that you can only expect to shoot at those that enjoy being shot at. I am generally an advocate of leaving open as is, and just getting on with playing. Forget about all of those players that choose to log-in in Solo. Forget about all of those players that choose to log-in in a Private Group. Concentrate of finding what you want with who's willing to join you.

I know you, Al, individually may not have suggested limiting Solo/PG access to the BGS, or to create incentives to playing in open. But, that is what this thread is about. The OP makes the argument that open deserves to be the benchmark for how the game is played, and should be held above the other modes. Forget about that as well. Just as your interests in the game differs from Eldragon's, there are many that don't see the game the way the OP does. I don't. Conversations like these could cease if we could all just let people play as they want, and use the tools we have to find the environment we each enjoy best, without having the other side complain.

That's what this thread is, a complaint that thousands of other players play differently, and a plea to make them stop. Ridiculous.

Just an FYI, the person you were replying to wasn't quoting me, but someone I was quoting.

My complaint about Open is that for anyone who is more PvE minded there is zero incentive to play open, but much higher disincentive. Which is a shame, because MMOs are best when people are incentivized to play together. I actually prefer PVP games, but with Elite even the PVP isn't very good because I'm not interested in ganking people for no reason or reward.