The Mining nerf was likely the worst implementation of a Balancing in Years...

I did 1 h combating pirates in ResH - after that I go to receive the credits. 32 millions. Nice surprise. But was 1 hour. In the same time I did easily 120 millions doing passengers trips.
I did 1 billion in Robigo in 4 days. Mining is second, now, in credits / hour, and combat - well, even buffed, combat is still the last on the list when we talk credits...
 
Not to Offend You.
But you compare it to Solo Bounty Hunting THEORY.

Because dont get me Wrong. But even now post Buff. I just went to my Home Factions just to Check. And the Best Missions gave 5 Million for 8 Kills.
So 600k per Target. Which is clearly Higher than before. Because before this I usually had more around 200-300k per Target. And that was a 1 out of 7 Allied Factions I have in that System. Most Missions are more around 300-400k per Target.

Moreover. Even taking lower Paying Missions. I could not manage to Find more than 3 Missions I could Stack from these 7 Factions.



So lets gather this.
For your Theoretical Income there. Which you Compare to Mining to actually become True.

You First need 20-30 Allied Factions. All of which are Close to a System you can use to Hunt Pirates and all of which Share a Common Enemy they give out Massacre Missions for.
You then within 1 Hour need to Stack 20 of the Rare Occuring High Payout Missions from 20 Different Factions out of these Allies. All of which have the same Target Faction and the same Target System.

Errrm. Yeah.
Sorry. But somehow I doubt this will happen on a Regular Basis.
In Fact. I somehow Doubt this is going to happen at all.

A more Realistic Theory. Would be 500k per Target in Average AFTER THE BUFF and 5 Stacked Missions. Giving you a Total Payout of about 75 Million for 3 Hours.
Which comes to a 25 Million per Hour Rate.







Nope. The Hard part is Seeing on Distance which Asteroids are Winners and which are not without First Flying there and Putting a Probe into them.
But that aside.
Its not that Mining or the Minigames on Core and Subsurface Mining are that Difficult.

Its that other Activities like Bounty Hunting are so Easy.
Dont get me Wrong. But with Gimballed Weapons and the pretty Pathethic Piloting Skills of NPCs. The Truth is. That you really need 0 Skill to kill an NPC.


Fun Fact.
Literally ALL of my Friends I bought to this Game. Which is 8 People by now.
Needed longer to Learn doing halfwat Decent Mining. Than they needed to learn Killing NPCs in Haz Res Zones.
I'm sorry but your ignorance and inexperience is showing. 500k per is the old, and current, wing mission payout.

This was a quick run before I'd added all the systems to my circuit, 16 stacked wing missions.
SmartSelect_20201130-205920_Discord.jpg

500k per target per mission.

I'm not theory crafting I'm making hundreds of millions in Bounty and mission payouts.

Today Bounty payments were easily 4x higher and the above doesn't use that or the doubled mission payments.

My wallet is visible on Inara, jumped from 6 to 6.5 billion from missions and bounties in the past few days. Would be higher but I've been doing community goals.
 
I did 1 h combating pirates in ResH - after that I go to receive the credits. 32 millions. Nice surprise. But was 1 hour. In the same time I did easily 120 millions doing passengers trips.
I did 1 billion in Robigo in 4 days. Mining is second, now, in credits / hour, and combat - well, even buffed, combat is still the last on the list when we talk credits...
The bounties are extra, you need missions to really see the combat money.
 
I'm sorry but your ignorance and inexperience is showing. 500k per is the old, and current, wing mission payout.

This was a quick run before I'd added all the systems to my circuit, 16 stacked wing missions.
View attachment 197730
500k per target per mission.

I'm not theory crafting I'm making hundreds of millions in Bounty and mission payouts.

Today Bounty payments were easily 4x higher and the above doesn't use that or the doubled mission payments.

My wallet is visible on Inara, jumped from 6 to 6.5 billion from missions and bounties in the past few days. Would be higher but I've been doing community goals.
Exactly, and I tried to explain him how lucrative metal delivery missions are right now, but he’ll never believe you unless he can test it himself and get exactly the same result lol 🤓.
 
The bounties are extra, you need missions to really see the combat money.
Lol, is far faster planting by Vette in a CNP and SELECTING the targets - I do not need to lose time searching and docking... and I confess I did the hunt not for credits mainly, but for materials; but yeah, the credits buff was significant !
 
Core mining and subsurface are only hard right now because the PWS is broken - it doesn't take a genius to hit the scanner and fly to the yellow rocks, and it doesn't take much skill to fly around an asteroid firing stuff into it's orifices.

Mining is literally the easiest way to make money in the game - hence why it's being nerfed. You can disagree if you want, but doesn't make you right :)
Mining isn't the easiest easy to make money, it's just the way with the most YouTube guides. Some examples:

Splitting a core rock: apportionment of correct size charges in moving targets with a time limit.

Subsurface: hit a moving target with a dumbfire missile then use perfect timing with the drill.

Abrasion blaster: use a low-velocity fixed weapon against a moving target with no leading aim point.

Yes, combat can be even more skillful than this, but I'm not very interested so there's no skill the way i do it. Launch SLF, deploy turrets, press the "delete target" button and facetank with my engineered, boosted shields. It's about a year since I even had to retreat from combat.
 
I'm sorry but your ignorance and inexperience is showing. 500k per is the old, and current, wing mission payout.

This was a quick run before I'd added all the systems to my circuit, 16 stacked wing missions.
View attachment 197730
500k per target per mission.

I'm not theory crafting I'm making hundreds of millions in Bounty and mission payouts.

Today Bounty payments were easily 4x higher and the above doesn't use that or the doubled mission payments.

My wallet is visible on Inara, jumped from 6 to 6.5 billion from missions and bounties in the past few days. Would be higher but I've been doing community goals.
Would you Mind giving us a Detailed Series of Screenshots of this ?
No Offense Intended. But we cant Really Confirm anything from your Screenshot aside from you having 6 Massacre Missions.
We cant really see who gave them to you or what they Pay.
Most Importandly. Your Post is 6 Hours after mine. So we have no Way to Confirm you actually Stacked Missions in a 1 Hour Timeframe.

Its like me Posting a Screenshot of me Selling 500 Tons of Painite for 200 Mil Credits and Saying Muh Best way to Farm Credits :)


And Well Mate.
No actually it doesnt. At least not for others like me. Not sure if this is maybe a Private Info on Inara. So no. We cant See your Credit Balance.


What we can See. Is your Achievements tough.
And your last Combat Rank Achievement was in October. Which doesnt exactly look like you are doing much Bounty Hunting.
Albeit your Statement that you Participate in Community Goals is True as Confirmed by this Achievement Log.


Maybe you could do a Small Video Guide on this ?
Just the Mission Stacking Tour which is just 1 Hour according to you :)
Should be Quite a Hit really. If it Pays as Good and Fast as you Claim. I am pretty sure you can make a Name for yourself with that actually.






Exactly, and I tried to explain him how lucrative metal delivery missions are right now, but he’ll never believe you unless he can test it himself and get exactly the same result lol 🤓.
Yep. And up to this Day. I keep looking at the Mission Board. And your Acclaimed Missions are Exceedingly Rare. Being a 1 out of 100 Find because constantly the Required Material is either 3-5 Tours for about 30 Million Reward. Thus ending up being about 30 Million an Hour for just the Mission without the Time Invested looking for it. And more Importandly not being something you can Rely upon to make Money.


Thats the thing Guys. Reliable Hour Rates. And Potential 1 Time Earnings is too vastly Different things.
Currently an Reliable Rate per Hour in Mining is about 30 Million for me. Thats what I can Guarantee constantly without any Doubt.

If I instead use the Potential Earnings I can get from being Lucky and having a High Paying Station on hand for my Load (which I can actually Guarantee by using my Fleet Carrier. Which I dont include in the Equation because most People dont have it)
I could easily up that to 200 Million per Hour.
But thats not what I will constantly Earn.


No, this wasn't the complaint. The complaint was that they just change mining and nothing else. When I pointed out they want to do it in steps you said they are lying and there won't be any other changes.
You missed the perfect opportunity to apologise, admit that you were wrong and move on.
Actual Opening Post by Me.

Pls note. This is not about Mining needing a Nerf.
Mining was Generating Money at insane Rates which needed Changing.


This is about how this Nerf is Handled.


Mining got Nerfed by over 60% Having Rates of about 100-150 Million per Hour. We now got 20-40 Million per Hour on Mining.
And thats still alot of Money.

And well. Thats exactly the Problem.
Other Methods of getting Money. Like Fighting Wars, Space Trucking, Missions, Bounty Hunting, Powerplay and Exploration.
Are still nowhere close to this.
Effectively the only way to make Money aside from Mining is some Exploitable Passenger Mission Stacking Locations.


So in Effect. Even tough Mining was effectively Nerfed so Hard that alot of People instantly threw their hands up in the Air and Quit.
The Truth is. That Mining is still the way to Earn Money.

Almost nothing has Changed in terms of which Activities People will carry out.
Exploration or Bounty Hunting is still something only done by those who dont really care about the Money from it.
Nobody will feel more Inclined now to do Bounty Hunting for Money instead of Mining.


So in the End ?
Well. Player Income has simply been Cut Down by 60-80% without any Notable Change to Balancing between the Activities.
So this Update has effectively Done absolutely nothing to Improve Balancing. And has effectively only Slashed Player Money and caused alot of Players to be Angry and Annoyed.


Why was none of the other Activities properly Balanced ?

Why was nothing done for Exploration, Bounty Hunting and Trade ?

I know you have trouble reading. You proved that in all your Posts so far constantly only claiming I complaint about the Mining Nerf.
But from the very Start. I made very Clear that I am Complaining about them not Right away also Implementing Fixes for the other Activities.

That Complaint Remains Completely Unchallenged.
Because at the very Best. They have no added ONE Activity which is Solo Bounty Hunting. To the List of Updates.
Leaving the remaining Activities still completely out.


Why don't you try it and provide some specific, constructive feedback yourself and maybe then you wouldn't need to ask rhetoric questions and could actually hold a useful, factual conversation instead?
Because its not my Job. :)
 
What irritate me off more is the fact the assassination WING missions made in SOLO, receive the same reward as the ones make in wing !
The devs have no common sense at all here - how the fraking way is the same to fight a double triple wing of Pirates ALONE worth the same as you fight the same Pirates with 2 more guys ?! This fact is ridiculous low paid in comparative....
 
I definitely wasn't suggesting you get paid for it. Just that you actually show some evidence you've actually tried the changes rather than passing judgment by proxy.
Burden of Proof is on the one making the Claim.
Not on the one Challenging it.

Otherwise One can just keep making Claims and they cant be Challenged as the one Challenging is always busy providing more and more evidence.


You guys Claim that Bounty Hunting/Delivery Missions now provide bigger Income than Mining.
So you have to Prove it :)
 
Burden of Proof is on the one making the Claim.
Not on the one Challenging it.

Otherwise One can just keep making Claims and they cant be Challenged as the one Challenging is always busy providing more and more evidence.


You guys Claim that Bounty Hunting/Delivery Missions now provide bigger Income than Mining.
So you have to Prove it :)
The one about delivery missions might have been me. I have done a lot of "research" the past week and found that I average 300Mcr/hour. I have no idea whether mining beats this now.

But no, I don't have to prove it with screenshots. Everyone is free to disbelieve me and if they do it won't affect my gameplay at all.
 
The one about delivery missions might have been me. I have done a lot of "research" the past week and found that I average 300Mcr/hour. I have no idea whether mining beats this now.

But no, I don't have to prove it with screenshots. Everyone is free to disbelieve me and if they do it won't affect my gameplay at all.
300 mil / h on delivery mission " on average" seems to me way to big an exaggeration, especially when that means you can get even MORE than 300 mil / h since is an "average".
No offense mate, but seems you added an extra " 0 " to your claim;

From what I saw in many systems, especially those in "boom" I visited last days, no way to confirm your claim ! On contrary....
What goods give you a decent profit ( and that means 30-40 k / unit, and that is a VERY good profit ! ) - those goods are in very limited quantiles.

Add the time to travel from spot A to B, the eventual interdiction, and the real number you claim drops by a factor of 10.
I will stick with Sunleader on this one, based on my own experience.
 
Would you Mind giving us a Detailed Series of Screenshots of this ?
No Offense Intended. But we cant Really Confirm anything from your Screenshot aside from you having 6 Massacre Missions.
We cant really see who gave them to you or what they Pay.
Most Importandly. Your Post is 6 Hours after mine. So we have no Way to Confirm you actually Stacked Missions in a 1 Hour Timeframe.

Its like me Posting a Screenshot of me Selling 500 Tons of Painite for 200 Mil Credits and Saying Muh Best way to Farm Credits :)


And Well Mate.
No actually it doesnt. At least not for others like me. Not sure if this is maybe a Private Info on Inara. So no. We cant See your Credit Balance.


What we can See. Is your Achievements tough.
And your last Combat Rank Achievement was in October. Which doesnt exactly look like you are doing much Bounty Hunting.
Albeit your Statement that you Participate in Community Goals is True as Confirmed by this Achievement Log.


Maybe you could do a Small Video Guide on this ?
Just the Mission Stacking Tour which is just 1 Hour according to you :)
Should be Quite a Hit really. If it Pays as Good and Fast as you Claim. I am pretty sure you can make a Name for yourself with that actually.
Yep. And up to this Day. I keep looking at the Mission Board. And your Acclaimed Missions are Exceedingly Rare. Being a 1 out of 100 Find because constantly the Required Material is either 3-5 Tours for about 30 Million Reward. Thus ending up being about 30 Million an Hour for just the Mission without the Time Invested looking for it. And more Importandly not being something you can Rely upon to make Money.
Thats the thing Guys. Reliable Hour Rates. And Potential 1 Time Earnings is too vastly Different things.
Currently an Reliable Rate per Hour in Mining is about 30 Million for me. Thats what I can Guarantee constantly without any Doubt.

If I instead use the Potential Earnings I can get from being Lucky and having a High Paying Station on hand for my Load (which I can actually Guarantee by using my Fleet Carrier. Which I dont include in the Equation because most People dont have it)
I could easily up that to 200 Million per Hour.
But thats not what I will constantly Earn.




Actual Opening Post by Me.




I know you have trouble reading. You proved that in all your Posts so far constantly only claiming I complaint about the Mining Nerf.
But from the very Start. I made very Clear that I am Complaining about them not Right away also Implementing Fixes for the other Activities.

That Complaint Remains Completely Unchallenged.
Because at the very Best. They have no added ONE Activity which is Solo Bounty Hunting. To the List of Updates.
Leaving the remaining Activities still completely out.




Because its not my Job. :)
You say “Required material is either 3-5 tours....” ...... But we talk about DELIVERY missions. It has already been explained to you.

I just made this video so you can see for yourself:

EDIT: I decided to delete the video cause I didn’t want my PS4 nick to be puplic anymore. But I proved my point so it served its purpose.

And I can do this over and over untill I get bored. I only very rarely don’t get my Cutter full with good missions.

You need an Extraction system in Boom state to do this, and they aren’t rare. It’s also best if the particular station has Extraction economy. And of course you need to be in good standing with the factions to get good missions, but when you are an experienced player you’ll have many systems to choose from with all kinds of economies and so on, like I do. You’ll also want stations with large landing pads (pick up + destination ) off course to be most efficient.

And you can’t check for good missions on the mission board, if you are not in good standing with the factions. I am sure you know that. They won’t show up under ‘Requirements not met”. Only one or two every then and now will.

I was only lucky with one thing here. All but one missions in the first part of the video went to Stargazer station. I’ll usually have to deliver to 3 or 4 stations when the Cutter is full.
 
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300 mil / h on delivery mission " on average" seems to me way to big an exaggeration, especially when that means you can get even MORE than 300 mil / h since is an "average".
No offense mate, but seems you added an extra " 0 " to your claim;

From what I saw in many systems, especially those in "boom" I visited last days, no way to confirm your claim ! On contrary....
What goods give you a decent profit ( and that means 30-40 k / unit, and that is a VERY good profit ! ) - those goods are in very limited quantiles.

Add the time to travel from spot A to B, the eventual interdiction, and the real number you claim drops by a factor of 10.
I will stick with Sunleader on this one, based on my own experience.
I did it by recording how many credits I made and dividing by how many hours I played, shuttling between two systems.

A typical mission was the 35Mcr for 180 tons of palladium or gold and I was able to stack those in my Cutter.

There are side benefits. Would-be pirates drop G5 materials and rank up my SLF pilot.
 
You say “Required material is either 3-5 tours“....... But we talk about DELIVERY missions. It has already been explained to you.

I just made this video so you can see for yourself:

Source: https://youtu.be/Ar49_Twtsmc


And I can do this over and over untill I get bored. I only very rarely don’t get my Cutter full with good missions.

You need an Extraction system in Boom state to do this, and they aren’t rare. It’s also best if the stations has Extraction economy. And of course you need to be in good standing with the factions to get good missions, but when you are an experienced player you’ll have many systems to choose from with all kinds of economies and so on, like I do. You’ll also want stations with large landing pads (pick up + destination ) off course to be most efficient.

And you can’t check for good missions on the mission board, if you are not in good standing with the factions. I am sure you know that. They won’t show up under ‘Requirements not met”. Only one or two every then and now will.
Well done. Couldn't keep it quiet.
Nerf hammer in 3....2....1.....
 
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