The Mining nerf was likely the worst implementation of a Balancing in Years...

I find it very hard to get worked up about the removal of a massive outlier of a moneymaker that I was able to afford a carrier without resorting to using, sorry.

I only tried out the mining map the day before the nerf hit to see just how lucrative it was, and hooh. It was leagues ahead of doing it the normal way.

And why was it so far ahead? Because it completely cut out an entire section of the gameplay loop, namely prospecting.

The same thing was true of people slapping up the triple-hotspots. Instead of going out, prospecting, finding a hotspot and getting some shinies out of it, now you had someone saying "EVERYONE, FORGET PROSPECTING, GO HERE AND ONLY HERE" and you could cut the entire "finding the good spots" part out of your game.

The thing is, mining was still a fantastic way to make money without doing it the meta way. And you know what? Your average, casual, "fly out to some rings, hit up a hotspot and grab what's there" method is still good. Or at least, would be if they fixed the PWA but that's another matter entirely.

Personally if I were fdev I'd incorporate some sort of date stamp into the seed for generating asteroids and kill these "everyone mine this one spot in this one system on this exact route forever and don't bother deviating from the already solved problem" maps. Sorry, everyone mined those asteroids already, they're depleted now.
Even the weekly tick would do it - it'd give enough time for gold rushes to pop up if someone finds something like the egg partway through the week and everyone piles in to get in on it before it vanishes again.

Prime Example...
Completely Ignoring the Topic.

Pretending that the Complaint is about Mining being Nerfed despite me Repeatedly saying that Mining needed a Nerf and that the Complaint is about them not Fixing the other Stuff First or at the Same Time with the Mining Nerf so People have an actual Reason to now go Test other Activities....


Also. As a Sidenote. This hasnt Changed at all.
You still go for the Overlapping Hotspots. Why would you go for something else ?
A Metallic Painite Double Hotspot is still worth more than other Materials.
Even if you now Mine other Stuff inside that Hotspot when it runs over you coincidently. Its still going to be. You Mine here and Only here.


If they wanted to Change that the Simplest Solution would be to make it somewhat Realistic and have Rings actually be moving things in Orbit. Hence each Tick the Hotspots would be Reset. As the Asteroids would have been mixed around inside the Ring thus Existing Hotspots moving and potentially Dispersin as well as New Hotspots Potentially Forming.
As well as Hotspots getting more or less Dense in the actual Buff they give towards Finding Materials etc.

But that would be a Proper Rework and Fix of the System.
Which isnt the Target of this. The Target was Solely to End the Painite Gold Rush..... And that they Did by Nerfing the Prices for Painite.



If there were some way to destroy asteroids and have them disappear forever without needing ridiculous amounts of data to save it all, I'd be all for that, it'd be pretty cool to see how much exactly players have mined thus far, and there's more than enough rings out there to last forever even with single-use asteroids.

But I think that would probably use an exorbitant amount of information, so it probably wouldn't be worth the bother.

Actually. There would be an Easy Way for that.
Just have the System Count the amount of Asteroids Mined and after each Server Tick.
If the Number Drops far enough. The Ring will be Reduced by a Density Level to Represent the Fact that Tens of Thousands of Asteroids have been Mined.

Could use Weighted Numbers for it.
An Asteroid where only Surface Deposits got Removed would be 0.1 Asteroid Points removed.
An Asteroid whose Crust got Mined would be 0.3 Asteroid Points removed.
An Asteroid whose Subsurface Depots got Mined would be 0.6 Asteroid Points removed.
Pls note these 3 Stack. So if you do all to an Asteroid you removed 1 Asteroid Point from the Ring.

If a Core is Mined its always 2 Full Asteroid Points removed. Regardless of wether that Asteroids other Deposits got Mined beforehand or not.
That way if a certain Ring is Exploited Massively. It will become ever less Dense till at some point will be Single Asteroids Flying about.

There could be a Slight Regeneration of course. As the Gas Giants might catch new Asteroids with their Gravity Well.
So if a Ring is left alone for long enough he might Refill itself over Time.



Then again. If you just used the System I described above. And thus made Hotspots etc Wandering around in Rings.
You would likely not have that Problem in the First Place. As you would rarely have one Ring being Mined for more than a few Days before the Hotspot Disperses and thus People have to look for a new One.



Albeit Again.
All of this is not really on the Topic.
Because the Topic is Supposed to be them Implementing this Update WITHOUT also Fixing the other Activities Economy...
 
Good news, it turned out that you were wrong when you claimed that Frontier is lying about their intention to change combat rewards:


So I guess this thread can be closed now?
 
Good news, it turned out that you were wrong when you claimed that Frontier is lying about their intention to change combat rewards:


So I guess this thread can be closed now?
why let a little thing like "facts" get in the way of a good whine about wanting your way now NOW NOW
 
Good news, it turned out that you were wrong when you claimed that Frontier is lying about their intention to change combat rewards:


So I guess this thread can be closed now?

The Complaint was that they made it in Steps. Which wont change.
But more Importand.
Where is the Rest ?

Where is non Combat Missions ? Where is Exploration ? Where is Trading ?


For the Changes itself. That might get its own Topic to Complain about.
Because.

So I see Bounty Increases of up to 4 Times for the Big Times. So basicly 500k instead of 125k And up to 10 Times for Lower ones. So 25k instead of 2.5k
Not really gonna make it worth to go Bounty Hunting. I will still get 2 Pieces of Painite Faster than Killing an Anaconda or Cutter.
So nowhere near enough.

But Hey. I havnt actually logged in Today and Checked. So I will give that a Week and First See how much I can actually Earn Bounty Hunting before making a Proper Complaint for that.

Same for Solo Combat Missions. So we go from 5-7m for 30 Kills to 10-14m for 30 Kills. Still not really worth it considering you need to Search a Specific Faction.
And even for Assassin Mission still not worth the Time Investment of Searching the Target etc.

So Yeah. Same here. Will give it a Week to check it out First. But I dont Expect anything really.



So in Total. My Statement was. That FD only did this Update to End the Goldrush. And they will do some Minor Buffs to Combat to claim its a Rebalance of Economy.

Now I will Admit. I Expected something more around 100% Increase rather than 400% Increase on Bounties.
But ultimately. Do you think this will make Bounty Hunting Balanced compared to Mining ?


Cant Wait for these Next Grand Changes which will likely be Increase of Combat Bonds by about 300-500%....
 
Solo combat pays based on standing with the minor faction. So if you take a little time to get on their good side missions will go from aprox 500k plus bounty per target to 1mil plus bounty per target.

Stack that even a few times and painite will lose its luster.
 
Solo combat pays based on standing with the minor faction. So if you take a little time to get on their good side missions will go from aprox 500k plus bounty per target to 1mil plus bounty per target.

Stack that even a few times and painite will lose its luster.

First Testing didnt exactly Inspire Confidence to be Honest.
Just went out for some Bounties. And the "Up to" comes up pretty fast. Cause the Highest Bounty I found was an Anaconda with 170k. Which is nowhere close.
So apparently the Bounty can be Increased by up to 400% but can just as well be just the Normal Amount.

Now Painite right now is a Reliable 200k per Ton. And I get 3-9 Tons for 1 Asteroid of Painite Mined depending on how much it got.
Finding a Painite Asteroid in a Double Painit Spot is about as Hard as Finding a Tree in a Forest.

So right now. I somehow Doubt that Bounty Hunting will go anywhere even close to Mining.
Now I did my First Test not on my Home System. So I am not Allied to the Faction. I will Check with my Home Faction Tomorrow Evening when I move back to my Homesystem.

But dont get me Wrong. Right now. The Solo Combat Mission is more around 200k Tops per Target. Assuming high Bounty Targets of at least 200k for each Target as a Plus.
That would be 400k per Target total.
Which means I need to Kill 2 Strong NPCs to get the same Money I get for a Single Painite Asteroid Mined.

I get about 100 Painite for 1 Hour. Plus 100-150 Tons of Gold/Pallad/Plati/Osmium/Silver/Samarium.
If I count only 1 Hour including way there and back. I would likely get a bit less. But very likely still 30 Million worth Mining.

Now. As I said. This was none Allied. I will check for an Allied Port Tomorrow and See if I can get a Mission that gives 1 Million Total per Target.
Because I think I could kill 30 Targets in an Hour. Which means such a Mission would actually be Equal to Mining.

Of course only if I can reliably get such a Mission Constantly. And have a System where I will constantly get the Correct Targets to Finish the Mission Stack.



Mining should always have been the easy-but-boring way to make money given literally everything in the game takes more skill.

Thats Bull to be Honest.
Right now. Combat is far Easier than Core Mining and Subsurface Mining.
Killing NPCs is really not a big Feat in this Game. Cause Franky. They Suck lol.
And if you just stack on them with Security. You barely need any Skill at all to do it.

Laser Mining is Boring and Easy. But not Mining in General.
And doing it effectively. Is actually Fairly Hard.
 
First Testing didnt exactly Inspire Confidence to be Honest.
Just went out for some Bounties. And the "Up to" comes up pretty fast. Cause the Highest Bounty I found was an Anaconda with 170k. Which is nowhere close.
So apparently the Bounty can be Increased by up to 400% but can just as well be just the Normal Amount.

Now Painite right now is a Reliable 200k per Ton. And I get 3-9 Tons for 1 Asteroid of Painite Mined depending on how much it got.
Finding a Painite Asteroid in a Double Painit Spot is about as Hard as Finding a Tree in a Forest.

So right now. I somehow Doubt that Bounty Hunting will go anywhere even close to Mining.
Now I did my First Test not on my Home System. So I am not Allied to the Faction. I will Check with my Home Faction Tomorrow Evening when I move back to my Homesystem.

But dont get me Wrong. Right now. The Solo Combat Mission is more around 200k Tops per Target. Assuming high Bounty Targets of at least 200k for each Target as a Plus.
That would be 400k per Target total.
Which means I need to Kill 2 Strong NPCs to get the same Money I get for a Single Painite Asteroid Mined.

I get about 100 Painite for 1 Hour. Plus 100-150 Tons of Gold/Pallad/Plati/Osmium/Silver/Samarium.
If I count only 1 Hour including way there and back. I would likely get a bit less. But very likely still 30 Million worth Mining.

Now. As I said. This was none Allied. I will check for an Allied Port Tomorrow and See if I can get a Mission that gives 1 Million Total per Target.
Because I think I could kill 30 Targets in an Hour. Which means such a Mission would actually be Equal to Mining.

Of course only if I can reliably get such a Mission Constantly. And have a System where I will constantly get the Correct Targets to Finish the Mission Stack.





Thats Bull to be Honest.
Right now. Combat is far Easier than Core Mining and Subsurface Mining.
Killing NPCs is really not a big Feat in this Game. Cause Franky. They Suck lol.
And if you just stack on them with Security. You barely need any Skill at all to do it.

Laser Mining is Boring and Easy. But not Mining in General.
And doing it effectively. Is actually Fairly Hard.

If you haven't invested time to get the area and factions up you won't see the bonus.

My record stack is about 40 kills per mission with 20 missions. I have a haz rez I can visit to dust the pirates, well several but needless to say, it takes me about 1 to 5 minutes to find 1 to 3+ mission targets, with some non mission bounties in the middle. In my Krait 2 time to kill is between 20 and 90 seconds. Sometimes an Anaconda takes two minutes, but rarely.

Call it 1 hour to build a mission stack, 1 to 1.5 to kill through it, 1 to turn the stack in.

3.5 hours for 40 kills x 500k per kill x 20 missions

400 million plus bounties, before the buff. 100mil per hour.

Mining I can get 512 painite off the map in about 90 min, another hour round trip to sell and for map reset.

512 x 600k 307 million for 3 hours 100 mil per hour.

You can keep mining, I'll be blowing stuff up.
 
You can keep mining, I'll be blowing stuff up.
And be picking up even better bounties now!
I went out for literally 10 minutes in a Haz Res to test tonight - it was a bit slower than normal as I forgot 'bait'... 2.8 million handed in to the station!
I'll do an hour tomorrow - I think it may be impressive!
 
If you haven't invested time to get the area and factions up you won't see the bonus.

My record stack is about 40 kills per mission with 20 missions. I have a haz rez I can visit to dust the pirates, well several but needless to say, it takes me about 1 to 5 minutes to find 1 to 3+ mission targets, with some non mission bounties in the middle. In my Krait 2 time to kill is between 20 and 90 seconds. Sometimes an Anaconda takes two minutes, but rarely.

Call it 1 hour to build a mission stack, 1 to 1.5 to kill through it, 1 to turn the stack in.

3.5 hours for 40 kills x 500k per kill x 20 missions

400 million plus bounties, before the buff. 100mil per hour.

Mining I can get 512 painite off the map in about 90 min, another hour round trip to sell and for map reset.

512 x 600k 307 million for 3 hours 100 mil per hour.

You can keep mining, I'll be blowing stuff up.

Thats a Nice Theory. But there is a quite the Elephant in the Way of your Master Plan there.

Quite some time ago. Stacking like that was removed. And if you kill a Target for a Massacre Mission. You only get the Kill Count towards 1 Mission.

There is some leeway. Because apparently if you get 2 Massacre Missions Issued from 2 Different Factions but Aiming for the same Faction. Then you can Stack them.
But that would mean you would need 20 different Factions giving you such a High Paying Missions for the same Target Faction.

I somehow doubt that will be done in 1 Hour.
 
Thats a Nice Theory. But there is a quite the Elephant in the Way of your Master Plan there.

Quite some time ago. Stacking like that was removed. And if you kill a Target for a Massacre Mission. You only get the Kill Count towards 1 Mission.

There is some leeway. Because apparently if you get 2 Massacre Missions Issued from 2 Different Factions but Aiming for the same Faction. Then you can Stack them.
But that would mean you would need 20 different Factions giving you such a High Paying Missions for the same Target Faction.

I somehow doubt that will be done in 1 Hour.

Rat Catcher beat me to it. Missions from multiple sources stack just fine.

The reason they shouldn't buff wing missions is up to 4 people can share the reward for every one of them so get 4 friends, each with a stack and while the turn in gets a little more complicated the credits roll right in.
 
Rat Catcher beat me to it. Missions from multiple sources stack just fine.

The reason they shouldn't buff wing missions is up to 4 people can share the reward for every one of them so get 4 friends, each with a stack and while the turn in gets a little more complicated the credits roll right in.
I deleted my post as it was worded poorly - and the argument (exactly like another started) will be circular as every retort appears to be from the most negative aspect of play possible...
 
I deleted my post as it was worded poorly - and the argument (exactly like another started) will be circular as every retort appears to be from the most negative aspect of play possible...

I compared solo bounty hunting without the buff to map painite mining with max payout.

If folks can't do that math more bounties for me.
 
Thats Bull to be Honest.
Right now. Combat is far Easier than Core Mining and Subsurface Mining.
Killing NPCs is really not a big Feat in this Game. Cause Franky. They Suck lol.
And if you just stack on them with Security. You barely need any Skill at all to do it.

Laser Mining is Boring and Easy. But not Mining in General.
And doing it effectively. Is actually Fairly Hard.

Core mining and subsurface are only hard right now because the PWS is broken - it doesn't take a genius to hit the scanner and fly to the yellow rocks, and it doesn't take much skill to fly around an asteroid firing stuff into it's orifices.

Mining is literally the easiest way to make money in the game - hence why it's being nerfed. You can disagree if you want, but doesn't make you right :)
 
I compared solo bounty hunting without the buff to map painite mining with max payout.

If folks can't do that math more bounties for me.

Not to Offend You.
But you compare it to Solo Bounty Hunting THEORY.

Because dont get me Wrong. But even now post Buff. I just went to my Home Factions just to Check. And the Best Missions gave 5 Million for 8 Kills.
So 600k per Target. Which is clearly Higher than before. Because before this I usually had more around 200-300k per Target. And that was a 1 out of 7 Allied Factions I have in that System. Most Missions are more around 300-400k per Target.

Moreover. Even taking lower Paying Missions. I could not manage to Find more than 3 Missions I could Stack from these 7 Factions.



So lets gather this.
For your Theoretical Income there. Which you Compare to Mining to actually become True.

You First need 20-30 Allied Factions. All of which are Close to a System you can use to Hunt Pirates and all of which Share a Common Enemy they give out Massacre Missions for.
You then within 1 Hour need to Stack 20 of the Rare Occuring High Payout Missions from 20 Different Factions out of these Allies. All of which have the same Target Faction and the same Target System.

Errrm. Yeah.
Sorry. But somehow I doubt this will happen on a Regular Basis.
In Fact. I somehow Doubt this is going to happen at all.

A more Realistic Theory. Would be 500k per Target in Average AFTER THE BUFF and 5 Stacked Missions. Giving you a Total Payout of about 75 Million for 3 Hours.
Which comes to a 25 Million per Hour Rate.




Core mining and subsurface are only hard right now because the PWS is broken - it doesn't take a genius to hit the scanner and fly to the yellow rocks, and it doesn't take much skill to fly around an asteroid firing stuff into it's orifices.

Mining is literally the easiest way to make money in the game - hence why it's being nerfed. You can disagree if you want, but doesn't make you right :)


Nope. The Hard part is Seeing on Distance which Asteroids are Winners and which are not without First Flying there and Putting a Probe into them.
But that aside.
Its not that Mining or the Minigames on Core and Subsurface Mining are that Difficult.

Its that other Activities like Bounty Hunting are so Easy.
Dont get me Wrong. But with Gimballed Weapons and the pretty Pathethic Piloting Skills of NPCs. The Truth is. That you really need 0 Skill to kill an NPC.


Fun Fact.
Literally ALL of my Friends I bought to this Game. Which is 8 People by now.
Needed longer to Learn doing halfwat Decent Mining. Than they needed to learn Killing NPCs in Haz Res Zones.
 
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