The Mining nerf was likely the worst implementation of a Balancing in Years...

[Sunleader]

Please point out where they claimed to balance mining, trading, combat and exploration prior to these updates.
Obviously they changed payouts before, but I don't remember any specific balancing updates.

Took me about 30 Seconds to scroll through the Update List....

Notice - Notice regarding supply and demand of high-end minerals

Greeting Commanders, Since the launch of the January Update, we've received a lot of feedback about the changes made to the supply and demand volumes of specific high-end minerals. Today, we wanted to give you an update on some of the feedback you've been sharing with us. Summary of the...

forums.frontier.co.uk

Quote from the Post in the Link. Full Post in the Link of course.

""
Summary of the change:
In the January Update, we have rebalanced the mining of certain high-end commodities.
""


I guess I could also look for the Specific January Update in which the actual Mining Changes were made...
But I am too lazy.




First off
You say they never claimed to be Balancing the Economy or Activities.
Then let me Ask you.

WHAT THE HECK DID THEY DO THE LAST 5 YEARS ???????
Throwing out Random Changes with no Aim or Balancing Intention ?????

 

[babelfisch]

Took me about 30 Seconds to scroll through the Update List....

Notice - Notice regarding supply and demand of high-end minerals

Greeting Commanders, Since the launch of the January Update, we've received a lot of feedback about the changes made to the supply and demand volumes of specific high-end minerals. Today, we wanted to give you an update on some of the feedback you've been sharing with us. Summary of the...

forums.frontier.co.uk

Quote from the Post in the Link. Full Post in the Link of course.

""
Summary of the change:
In the January Update, we have rebalanced the mining of certain high-end commodities.
""


I guess I could also look for the Specific January Update in which the actual Mining Changes were made...
But I am too lazy.




First off
You say they never claimed to be Balancing the Economy or Activities.
Then let me Ask you.

WHAT THE HECK DID THEY DO THE LAST 5 YEARS ???????
Throwing out Random Changes with no Aim or Balancing Intention ?????

That post doesn't even mention combat.

Pleas try again.

 

[Sunleader]

That post doesn't even mention combat.

Pleas try again.

lol
So now I need to find an exact Copy of your Wording or what ?

Talk about grasping for Straws....

 

[babelfisch]

lol
So now I need to find an exact Copy of your Wording or what ?

Talk about grasping for Straws....

No, you need to find an update that addresses balancing in all areas of the game. You said they are claiming to do this since 5 years, while I say they never released an update that was supposed to balance the various professions of the game. They did some buffs and nerfs here and there but there never was a period where they focused on payouts in general. Please read the post you quoted again, because I specifically asked about updates for mining, trading, combat and exploration.

 

[Sunleader]

No, you need to find an update that addresses balancing in all areas of the game. You said they are claiming to do this since 5 years, while I say they never released an update that was supposed to balance the various professions of the game. They did some buffs and nerfs here and there but there never was a period where they focused on payouts in general. Please read the post you quoted again, because I specifically asked about updates for mining, trading, combat and exploration.

Have you Read a Word I said ?
They have been Balancing in SINGLE STEPS for 5 Years.
AND THIS UPDATE IS YET ANOTHER SINGLE STEP.

I have Literally Told you that this is what they have been doing for 5 Years.
They ONLY Address the Gold Rush.


Or would you mind Pointing me to the Grand Bounty and Mission Balancing they have done in this Update now ?




Just Answer me 2 Questions Mate.

1.
Do you Really Claim that Frontier has not Attempted to Balance the Economy for the last 5 Years ?
2.
What has Frontier Accomplished with this Update aside from Ending the Mining Gold Rush ?

 

[Cairton]

Who needs mining? I've made nearly a billion today trading in my FC... (but it was quite a long play session - I was going to stop at 1/2 billion but got greedy!)

Out of interest, how did you get enough pennies together to buy your fleet carrier?

 

[Cairton]

@Sunleader You seem to hate FDev and everything they've done and haven't done. Why do you play the game? I'm genuinely interested.

 

[CMDR Nathan Atterlein]

I'm seriously starting to think that Sunleader simply didn't get the memo about the upcoming changes, and we're just talking past eachother.

 

[CMDR Serra]

...
What has Frontier Accomplished with this Update aside from Ending the Mining Gold Rush ?

That in itself is admirable in my book.

If mining is the only viable credit-making activity then Elite becomes 3D asteroids interspersed with super cruise assist and docking computer animations.

Eventually credits become meaningless and you're sat there with 3 of every ship on your fleet carrier, but still have to ask how power priorities work...

 

[Sunleader]

@Sunleader You seem to hate FDev and everything they've done and haven't done. Why do you play the game? I'm genuinely interested.

Because its Fun ?
Thats a pretty boring Question Really.

If I didnt care about the Game I would just Quit without saying a word and not waste my Time Arguing with White Knights in the Forum.

But there is a very veeeeeery Wiiide Space between a Game about which I have no Complaints and whose Dev Team I trust Unconditionally on Announcements.
And between a Game that is Bad/Boring and whose Dev Team I have no Confidence in to Achieve anything


I wonder why everyone always thinks in pure Black and White and basicly cant see anything in between taking whatever the Game does without Complaining or Leaving the Game immediately lol

I'm seriously starting to think that Sunleader simply didn't get the memo about the upcoming changes, and we're just talking past eachother.

I have Said this like 15 times now.
But Yes. I did get the Memo about the "Upcoming Changes" which we neither know when they will come or what they will be.

I just doubt it will be anything of Substance.

At the Obvious Risk of Repeating myself another 20 times.
I am Firmly of the Opinion that FDEVs Target was just to Stop the Gold Rush on Painite that they Accidently Created.
This Target they have Achieved. So I doubt they will make any Major Changes beyond that.

That in itself is admirable in my book.

If mining is the only viable credit-making activity then Elite becomes 3D asteroids interspersed with super cruise assist and docking computer animations.

Eventually credits become meaningless and you're sat there with 3 of every ship on your fleet carrier, but still have to ask how power priorities work...

No Arguments there.
But this hasnt really Changed.
Mining is still the Number 1 Credit Method for the Majority of Players.

And Yes. I know those who already got 10 Billion Credits and a Fleet Carrier and thus can basicly just Stack 20k Goods from a Station to then Jump their Carrier right next to a Station that Pays Max Price for it. Can do more by Trading right now.
But if you got a Carrier your really no longer part of the Majority of Players which has to Earn Credits. You already got the most Expensive thing in the Game lol.

And Yes I know you can also do super high Profits in Colonia. But People tend to Forget that the Hour Rate of Earnings has to Include the Waytime as well.
And the Trip to Colonia takes a bit. Even when using a Fleet Carrier.



Just for the Record. I am Perfectly Fine with the Nerf to Mining Prices.
In Fact I think they could have done more on Mining. As I think they should have Flattened the Curve on the stuff alot more.
So that there actually is a Choice to either Mine in Bulk or to Mine for Rare Materials. As right now Bulk Mining is meaningless.

But just Nerfing Mining and doing nothing to actually Fix the other Activities is not Helping anyone.
Even if they had Nerfed Mining so much that it was the lowest Income now.
It would simply have Changed the Thing everyone does.

And thats basicly what I fear we are looking at.
Because if they Continue with this One Step at a Time Rubbish. We will Spend the next Year just moving on to each new Best Activity for Money Farming.
Or rather we likely wont change anything at all.
Because Mining is Still Super Profitable.
And I highly Doubt Bounty Hunting will become even Remotely Profitable enough to Compete against Mining. So basicly for the next 2-3 Updates which likely means at least 2 Months. We wont see any Change at all. As Mining will Stay Up there and nobody will go Bounty Hunting for Money anyways.

 

[CMDR Nathan Atterlein]

And I highly Doubt Bounty Hunting will become even Remotely Profitable enough to Compete against Mining. So basicly for the next 2-3 Updates which likely means at least 2 Months. We wont see any Change at all. As Mining will Stay Up there and nobody will go Bounty Hunting for Money anyways.

I've a lingering fear about that too, but since we've never really had an opportunity to see combat buffed for... N+1 years, I'm hopeful that they might actually take it to a level where it can compete with mining.

Might be setting myself up for disappointment here, but hey. I'll give it a go.

 

[Vandaahl]

It would simply have Changed the Thing everyone does.

You're (and a lot of people make this mistake) wrong here. Not everyone mines.

And I highly Doubt Bounty Hunting will become even Remotely Profitable enough to Compete against Mining.

In some scenario's it is already.

 

[Kelster87]

Because its Fun ?
Thats a pretty boring Question Really.

If I didnt care about the Game I would just Quit without saying a word and not waste my Time Arguing with White Knights in the Forum.

But there is a very veeeeeery Wiiide Space between a Game about which I have no Complaints and whose Dev Team I trust Unconditionally on Announcements.
And between a Game that is Bad/Boring and whose Dev Team I have no Confidence in to Achieve anything


I wonder why everyone always thinks in pure Black and White and basicly cant see anything in between taking whatever the Game does without Complaining or Leaving the Game immediately lol




I have Said this like 15 times now.
But Yes. I did get the Memo about the "Upcoming Changes" which we neither know when they will come or what they will be.

I just doubt it will be anything of Substance.

At the Obvious Risk of Repeating myself another 20 times.
I am Firmly of the Opinion that FDEVs Target was just to Stop the Gold Rush on Painite that they Accidently Created.
This Target they have Achieved. So I doubt they will make any Major Changes beyond that.



No Arguments there.
But this hasnt really Changed.
Mining is still the Number 1 Credit Method for the Majority of Players.

And Yes. I know those who already got 10 Billion Credits and a Fleet Carrier and thus can basicly just Stack 20k Goods from a Station to then Jump their Carrier right next to a Station that Pays Max Price for it. Can do more by Trading right now.
But if you got a Carrier your really no longer part of the Majority of Players which has to Earn Credits. You already got the most Expensive thing in the Game lol.

And Yes I know you can also do super high Profits in Colonia. But People tend to Forget that the Hour Rate of Earnings has to Include the Waytime as well.
And the Trip to Colonia takes a bit. Even when using a Fleet Carrier.



Just for the Record. I am Perfectly Fine with the Nerf to Mining Prices.
In Fact I think they could have done more on Mining. As I think they should have Flattened the Curve on the stuff alot more.
So that there actually is a Choice to either Mine in Bulk or to Mine for Rare Materials. As right now Bulk Mining is meaningless.

But just Nerfing Mining and doing nothing to actually Fix the other Activities is not Helping anyone.
Even if they had Nerfed Mining so much that it was the lowest Income now.
It would simply have Changed the Thing everyone does.

And thats basicly what I fear we are looking at.
Because if they Continue with this One Step at a Time Rubbish. We will Spend the next Year just moving on to each new Best Activity for Money Farming.
Or rather we likely wont change anything at all.
Because Mining is Still Super Profitable.
And I highly Doubt Bounty Hunting will become even Remotely Profitable enough to Compete against Mining. So basicly for the next 2-3 Updates which likely means at least 2 Months. We wont see any Change at all. As Mining will Stay Up there and nobody will go Bounty Hunting for Money anyways.

They've never previously stated they were going to fix more than one aspect, this was a clear statement that many things are being worked on. Given the history of issues with the previous changes, doing one area at a time makes sense. You seem to be wilfully ignoring that this is just the first stage of changes and there are more to come. But hey, don't let the truth get in the way of an angry rant.

 

[Konan]

Pls note. This is not about Mining needing a Nerf.
Mining was Generating Money at insane Rates which needed Changing.

This is about how this Nerf is Handled.


Mining got Nerfed by over 60% Having Rates of about 100-150 Million per Hour. We now got 20-40 Million per Hour on Mining.
And thats still alot of Money.

And well. Thats exactly the Problem.
Other Methods of getting Money. Like Fighting Wars, Space Trucking, Missions, Bounty Hunting, Powerplay and Exploration.
Are still nowhere close to this.
Effectively the only way to make Money aside from Mining is some Exploitable Passenger Mission Stacking Locations.


So in Effect. Even tough Mining was effectively Nerfed so Hard that alot of People instantly threw their hands up in the Air and Quit.
The Truth is. That Mining is still the way to Earn Money.

Almost nothing has Changed in terms of which Activities People will carry out.
Exploration or Bounty Hunting is still something only done by those who dont really care about the Money from it.
Nobody will feel more Inclined now to do Bounty Hunting for Money instead of Mining.


So in the End ?
Well. Player Income has simply been Cut Down by 60-80% without any Notable Change to Balancing between the Activities.
So this Update has effectively Done absolutely nothing to Improve Balancing. And has effectively only Slashed Player Money and caused alot of Players to be Angry and Annoyed.


Why was none of the other Activities properly Balanced ?
Why was nothing done for Exploration, Bounty Hunting and Trade ?

Dude, the prices of other minerals have shot way up. Mining is better than ever now. Stop being chicken little and claiming the sky is falling. It's not. Prices didn't drop 60-70percent either. You're being overly dramatic. It's more balanced.

 

[C64Fan]

Mining has earned me a low 11-digit number of credits - but IMO it’s an absolutely fantastic and much needed breath of fresh air that there are other viable alternatives now to earn fast credits. I did a bit of trading and delivery missions yesterday, and I absolutely LOVED it! Best thing that has happened for the game in a very long time IMO.

 

[Rat Catcher]

Out of interest, how did you get enough pennies together to buy your fleet carrier?

Mostly Wing massacre missions - but thanks for asking
(and amalgamating the credits from 3 accounts - I really do dislike mining)

 

[Sunleader]

They've never previously stated they were going to fix more than one aspect, this was a clear statement that many things are being worked on. Given the history of issues with the previous changes, doing one area at a time makes sense. You seem to be wilfully ignoring that this is just the first stage of changes and there are more to come. But hey, don't let the truth get in the way of an angry rant.

Yeah Sure. They never claimed to do Economy Balancing. They never said they would do anything over the last 5 Years.
I wonder what they Coined all these Economy Changes as....

Then again. Yeah. If you want to Split Hairs its Technically True that they never Announced several Different Economy Balances at once.
Albeit Technically they didnt do that this time either. They only Announced Mining Changes and said they might look at a different thing somewhere in the future.....

Dude, the prices of other minerals have shot way up. Mining is better than ever now. Stop being chicken little and claiming the sky is falling. It's not. Prices didn't drop 60-70percent either. You're being overly dramatic. It's more balanced.

lol
Ok now this is just Blatantly Dishonest.

Yes. Some other Commodities got their Prices Increased.
Thing is. The Price Nerf of the Relevant stuff was 400-600k
The Price Buff for other Stuff was 20-30k

A Full 4 Hour Mining Run went from 600 Million Dropoff to about 150 Million Dropoff
A 1-2 Hour Strip Mining Run in Exchange went ONLY from about 150 Million Dropoff to about 80 Million Dropoff.

So No lol
Mining is not better than Ever.
I dont even know how one could even get the Idea that Mining was Improved lol....

Mining has earned me a low 11-digit number of credits - but IMO it’s an absolutely fantastic and much needed breath of fresh air that there are other viable alternatives now to earn fast credits. I did a bit of trading and delivery missions yesterday, and I absolutely LOVED it! Best thing that has happened for the game in a very long time IMO.

Not really. Because dont get me Wrong.
But unless you have a Carrier already. There really isnt any Reliable Method of doing more Money than Mining.
You can do Passenger Runs on Colonia. But you have to Include the Fact that you need to Travel to Colonia for that.
You can do Trade Runs with about 60-80k Profit per Ton. But only in some Limited Windows where some Stations Sell you Gold/Palladium etc for Super low Prices which tends to run out of Supply pretty Fast.

In terms of Moneymaking. Guess what. Mining is still where its at.

 

[MishaTX]

What nerf? If I ever go mining again, I'm deffo deleting Platinum and Osmium from my ignore list, since they used to be pointless. Now I have more 'roids worth mining, which fills my hold up quicker.

 

[CMDR Serra]

...
Mining is not better than Ever.
I dont even know how one could even get the Idea that Mining was Improved lol....
...

I think mining is better. It's just not as efficient.

When out mining you'd ignore basically anything that wasn't Painite/LTDs. Now you at least have a quick check to see what's worth keeping. Depending on local demand you may want to keep 6-8 different things. The overall payout has undoubtedly gone down, but the activity itself has got slightly more interesting at least.

 

[MishaTX]

The overall payout has undoubtedly gone down, but the activity itself has got slightly more interesting at least.

And what is often overlooked, at least I think, is that with more than just one thing to mine for, you're going to fill up faster and thus lessen your time flying around in a ring vs. flying to a station to sell your haul which, mathematically speaking, actually improves your Cr/hr rate.