the negative community narrative and the confirmation bias effect.

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Exactly so, OP.

Petulant, whiny, and immature gamers are the norm, unfortunately; why I spend so little time on the forums, especially these. But have faith - devs don't really listen to complaints unless it translates into money lost.
 
You've got to look at it from the other side of the 'trench' OP.

If everytime we're trying to discuss genuine issues with game design/balance or broken promises and what this means for the games future, and are met with a wall of '10 yr plan', 'You werent here to begin with at kickstarter' and 'this game isn't for you.' type responses, likewise people are going to get vexxed.



Offtopic I know, but how are you finding NMS? And does it require a 24/7 net connection?

The ladder holds water. Some people physically enjoy things others do not. (yes enjoyment is physical) By saying these thigns are issues you are claiming something subjectives as objective. Which is invalid. What you are saying actually means you don't like the mechanic. And if its a game breaker, well then you don't like the game. Its basic deductive logic.

NMS is great now imo. It requires zero internet connection. However the game, generalized, is on the opposite end of a spectrum than ED. I wouldn't use liking ED as a reason to buy it. In actuality they aren't anything alike. Take a look at what the game is with all three updates.
 
Agree with OP, the players and people around Elite (I don't even want to call it community anymore since it clearly isn't) has turned into a steaming toxic pile of bile that I'm ashamed to be a part of. At one point it was one of the few games I'd happily identify myself with given some of the amazing conversations being had about how artificial gravity could be made to work on a ship with decks, what materials and construction methods could make X ship and Y station, city domes, planet colonisation. You name it, back in the day the discussions were vibrant and these days it feels like every other thread is "check out how awesome I am" or "whats the latest exploit". Sure some of the "see how awesome I am" threads these days are actually good but many are cringeworthy as hell.

Anyway, I digress... It actually irritates me that between the [insert insult here] there are still some really awesome people here as well as a few new ones who actually engage in discussion rather than eternally projecting their propaganda. I'm irritated because if it weren't for those I'd be able to leave properly and occasionally flick through the patch notes etc without feeling like i'm missing too many things. Instead there's the occasional epic tale/event like Distant Worlds or amazing OC like the ToCoSo concepts or the Isononas flight assist off series etc etc


I urge everyone to look back at your posting history, when was the last time you:
-Admitted you were wrong
-Provided good solid advice to someone without sarcasm/git-gud etc
-Created and posted original content
-Recognised and discussed 2 sides of an arguement in one post
-Put a concept across as an idea or something to tweak/build on instead of "This way is the best way, do it exactly like this or the game dies"

Sure sometimes discussing the latest exploit is something we need to do. Sometimes discussing what's broken or not yet finished is something we need to do. It's all part of it, but as the OP quite rightly says some people are going about this in a way which is just the epitome of being an [insult here].


Personally I now have a ridiculous number of people on my ignore list because I don't feel it's worth my time even trying to engage them in conversation since I know they'll just ignore any points I make in order to continue saying exactly what they want to say. Discussion involves give and take yet I can easily name anywhere between 50 and 100 people who I can look through their post history and find they've never changed an opinion or discussed something properly without resorting to either personal attacks or repeating the same comment over and over again. Nobody is that smart that everything they think/say is correct and perfect yet everyone seems to think that not sticking to an arguement point is somehow "a crime punishable by death" :p. I don't know, maybe I missed the memo and we are all scoring internet points or something on a win-loss ratio?

Edit: Another thing that bothers me here is the endless -for-tat on things like PvE/PvP, Open/Solo/Group etc. Again internet points it would seem. I don't expect everyone to get along at all times but these entire arguments could probably be summed up in 20 bullet points of Pros and Cons instead of a 30,000 post megathread of insult trading.
 
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I have yet to see even a semi-regular poster here who only every defends FD and the game, never complains, shoots down anyone who has anything untoward to say. Even the most fervent White Knights here often post on how something isn't right, how a certain aspect of the game could be improved, how they might not like a certain direction the game is going.

But then you look at the, well call them the Black Knights, those that have that deep seated hatred for the game. Those that admit they don't play it now yet can comment with intricate details on the latest patch. They are the first ones to immediately label anyone who disagrees with them as a fanboi or white knight, often for having the audacity of merely enjoying the game. Some do it because an aspect of the game now doesn't fit their personal paradigm, or a change robbed them of that little niche skill they thought they were the only ones who mastered or knew of it. Some have legitimate complaints but have trouble verbalising, saying 'this game suz' isn't helpful but I can understand frustration and lack of English compounding this.

Since forums first began back in the old days of bulletin boards, people have found it is easier to complain than to compliment. They think by complaining they become part of the 'in crowd', they complain about things they never experienced, have never seen, but if they don't complain they are afraid they will be labelled as fanbois. They are often the ones to utter the most outlandish and ridiculous complaints with no evidence, no examples of the incident, they just think they are being 'kewl' by posting and hoping like hell they will be recognised for their actions.

Look, this game isn't perfect, I have yet to play a perfect game. It has it's problems, it does need some major overhauls in certain areas (BGS, mission generation, trade imbalance, making mining and exploration better, just to name a few) but when FD announce they are addressing these issues, all hell breaks lose. And often the loudest voices condemning working on the base game are those very same voices who were complaining about it - just now they want new things introduced instead.
 
I urge everyone to look back at your posting history, when was the last time you:
-Admitted you were wrong
-Provided good solid advice to someone without sarcasm/git-gud etc
-Created and posted original content
-Recognised and discussed 2 sides of an arguement in one post

1.According to my wife I am ALWAYS wrong. These days I work on the assumption that everybody else takes this as a given.
2.Never - somebody else always beats me to it.
3.About a year ago
4.About the time the internet decided I was just wrong regardless

I don't know, maybe I missed the memo and we are all scoring internet points or something on a win-loss ratio?
Do I win?
What do I get?
I'll bet the game's rigged.
I demand a recount.
 
Actually, I’d say the opposite condition is more common here: disconfirmation bias as supporting facts are typically scritinized versus being avoided.

Quick definition: “Disconfirmation bias refers to the tendency for people to extend critical scrutiny to information which contradicts their prior beliefs and accept uncritically information that is congruent with their prior beliefs.”

Sounds familiar?

It does, I am in danger of getting a headache lol.

Confirmation or Disconfirmation bias - whatever. Can we at least all agree we need to be a bit more self aware of our own motivations and biases. Myself included.

I understand a more measured response doesn't necessarily equate to a more mature response, and saying things which sound patronising is not helpful.

I guess we have different personalities and ways of commincating our desire for a better game.
 

Goose4291

Banned
At one point it was one of the few games I'd happily identify myself with given some of the amazing conversations being had about how artificial gravity could be made to work on a ship with decks, what materials and construction methods could make X ship and Y station, city domes, planet colonisation. You name it, back in the day the discussions were vibrant and these days it feels like every other thread is "check out how awesome I am" or "whats the latest exploit". Sure some of the "see how awesome I am" threads these days are actually good but many are cringeworthy as hell.

I miss those days too. Good times.

It all started to go wrong with the early Dec '14 anti-piraxy threads that were taking themselves too seriously IMO.

I remember being all:

[video=youtube_share;0-JA1ffd5Ms]https://youtu.be/0-JA1ffd5Ms[/video]
 
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Forums are like miniature versions of freedom of speech (for those that have it or think they do). However, freedom of speech has its limits. And this is where moderators come in. As for the complaining and such, we'll this is not the age of Aquarius but rather the age of entitlements. And so everyone who drops X number of dollars believe they have a perfect right to demand change.

Logic has no bearing with these folks. I dare say that we've all found things wrong with this, or others, game. And we all have things we'd like to see changed or added. They key is in presentation. I get up on the table and start stomping and yelling I do get attention. But do I get change? Maybe, but most likely I get a warning (depends on the degree of my tantrum).

Name calling is great around here. White night, dark night, fanboy etc, etc. But not a lot of tolerance (from either side) for difference of opinions. What a shame that a game forum starts to resemble reality more than a game of imagination and entertainment. Oh well ... great point OP.

Chief
 
Here's the scenario that I don't understand:

Post: "I'm really enjoying this game"

Response: "Here are all the reasons that you shouldn't"


Or frankly, any response that counters someone saying "I'm happy". Especially those that go so far as to attack or ridicule someone that is enjoying the game.

Seriously, what is the motivation here?

"I'm happy!"

"Don't be happy!"
 
Demanding change (constructively) is something I encourage.
I myself said the game was underdeveloped since it is being continously developed on and admitted certain aspects of the game are functional to a degree but miss the mark.

You'll see posts of mine asking for material, station facility filtering in the system maps.
I've made multiple posts and added my voice to the posts about having heat-sinks to be synthesized, and how I believed it could be implemented (over time) as to not be exploitable.

Because they get lodged in the "nice to haves", and if other likeminded people discuss rationally about the same feature, trying to mentally debug it on the forums, before it gets coded and play-tested, all the better.


And having been a developer, and a QA tester (and being a massive Valve fan hunkering down fruitlessly I might add, on Forum 81 (the official steampowered half life 2 episode 2 disccusion forum))

I know that complaints and suggestions can be enthusastically lodged, and fixes can be in the pipeline: either they are already implemented or planned to be implemented.

Whether or not that code is actually scheduled for release, is a different story.

It might be months from a "hitting the nail on the head forum comment", to that specific bug fix or feature actually shipping, because there was scheduled maintenance or a planned overhaul of that area for or it makes sense to pack that micro-patch with some other patches that serves the narrative of that specific large update well.

I just want people to use their voices well, and help develop the game, not add their voices to a harmony of discontent.

Everyones opinions are valid, and tell a part of the story from a certain perspective (even if the language can be colourfull at times)
 
I wholeheartedly agree with the OP, I have been playing MMO's and MMO type games for around 15 years now and ED's community are some of the most negative and impossible to talk to I have ever come across, Bar 1 or 2 people, Like everyone's a midlife crisis ogre that decided to start looking for aggro, Honestly I've never come across this before, It's really weird.
 

Goose4291

Banned
Here's the scenario that I don't understand:

Post: "I'm really enjoying this game"

Response: "Here are all the reasons that you shouldn't"


Or frankly, any response that counters someone saying "I'm happy". Especially those that go so far as to attack or ridicule someone that is enjoying the game.

Seriously, what is the motivation here?

"I'm happy!"

"Don't be happy!"

Because that is seldom how the posts read in their entirety.

The read more as "I'm really enjoying this game, anyone who doesnt is wrong, negative or a hater."

Which usually results in the responses we see.
 
I think we should stop being so concerned over what everyone else is saying or the perceived state of their viewpoints.
 
You've got to look at it from the other side of the 'trench' OP.

If everytime we're trying to discuss genuine issues with game design/balance or broken promises and what this means for the games future, and are met with a wall of '10 yr plan', 'You werent here to begin with at kickstarter' and 'this game isn't for you.' type responses, likewise people are going to get vexxed.



Offtopic I know, but how are you finding NMS? And does it require a 24/7 net connection?

I've enjoyed NMS since launch day - I was a pre-order holder, and it has only gotten exponentially better. The Foundations update gave us the ability to construct bases to suit our planetary needs. Pathfinder gave us some fantastic land vehicles, and Atlas has brought us a quest system, and brings true multi-player even closer. In the 17,292 systems and 50-some thousands of planets I've seen I've seen more than few with Message Beacons left by others, though I've not actually seen another player orb yet, I'm sure they're out there to be found.

It does not require a 24/7 connection, though connectivity is required for uploads to be synced.

I was thinking more along the lines of "FLK" if we're going to get all medical.

https://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/FLK

Possible.. FLKs can be WOMBATs. Though 45C might also be applicable.
 

Goose4291

Banned
I've enjoyed NMS since launch day - I was a pre-order holder, and it has only gotten exponentially better. The Foundations update gave us the ability to construct bases to suit our planetary needs. Pathfinder gave us some fantastic land vehicles, and Atlas has brought us a quest system, and brings true multi-player even closer. In the 17,292 systems and 50-some thousands of planets I've seen I've seen more than few with Message Beacons left by others, though I've not actually seen another player orb yet, I'm sure they're out there to be found.

It does not require a 24/7 connection, though connectivity is required for uploads to be synced.

So, if I don't have a connection for four months, the games not going to refuse to work, is it?

Glad to see works continuing on it too.
 
I'm getting tired of frontier can only do wrong narrative. On everypage of the forum there are a 2-4 complaits threads, and has a couple of megathreads

To the OP:
Yeah!
So?

Simple solution to your problem: Don't read 'em! Save your energy for something you like - and - ya won't get tired.
Pretty simple, huh.

People are what they are.
Ya can't change the world.
And you're not gonna change the people in it and you're not gonna change internet forum users.

BUT...

If it makes you feel better to try then knock your self out (H.ell - I've tried a few times myself - it can be fun and frustrating).

Just don't get butt hurt when you get the apologists, haters, the can't do any wrong crowd, the fanbois, the attack dogs and all the other categories of forum dwellers responses directed at you.

In other words - better grow a pretty thick skin if you continue to believe you can change the world.
 
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