The New AI is Too Good! I'm back in an Cobra After Loosing Python 3 Times in 3 Days!

[aws357]

All thi AI talk is well and all.

But law enforcers are still not intelligent enough to recognize a honest blunder from a total hull-carnage.

In real life it would be as if someone scratching your car got the death sentence while a serial killer got away with a 300€ fine. (barely escaped with 30% hull from a RES, nothing new here )

 

[Mephane]

Not gonna have AI ships spamming shield cells. I'm focused on better combat tactics, better use of pips, plus weakening the lower ranks to make combat more accessible. Higher ranks I want to take to the max. My aim is to have a wide spread of AI abilities, plus give AI ships a bit of individual character. So pirates will behave a bit different to police in combat.

I won't expect you to reply, because whatever you say could be an endorsement or criticism of the "SCB spam PvP meta" situation, and I am not sure if you are allowed to do so, but I will try anyway. Would you prefer if SCB were not possible in the first place, for example by limiting every ship to 1 SCB (like it is with fuel scoops, too)?

 

[Faybs]

So pirates will behave a bit different to police in combat.

Personalities huh? that does sound pretty cool. So police and navy vessels will tend to be more disciplined, fly in formation etc and pirates will just fly however (they will occasionally be drunk! ) and try dirty tricks like ramming? We should also see NPCs using power specific weapons. I'd expect aligned high level NPCs to have spent the requisite four weeks and so have access to them.

 

[5thNovember]

Hmm. And that will be a good thing?

Well at least the ones that would be left would be enjoying really damned good AI. Because really, as admiral as the combat AI is at this point, there is plenty of room for improvement and isn't by any means overwhelming. To be honest, if the scaling up of AI difficulty scaled up a bit more proportionately with combat rank, beginner and intermediate players would quickly learn which fights to avoid... or at least, they should.

Add to this, if the AI was anything like dogfighting CMDRs (and it is far from that), you'd have a lot less players randomly attacking other players. Part of the reason players resort to that is that they get bored of other parts of the game, such as AI that doesn't present much of a challenge any more. I can't remember the last time I got killed by an NPC (and I spend a lot of time in CZs, MZs as well as deliberately firing on authorities just to initiate dogfights with waves of winged authorities for fun) but I do remember getting shot out of the sky by CMDRs twice on the weekend. Skirmishes with the most challenging Elite AI this game boasts right now isn't a touch on that of taking on CMDRs, not just in terms of skill, but also fun.

Don't get me wrong, Sarah is doing a great job and I do enjoy NPC combat in it's current form, but I am looking forward to seeing it get better and have no doubts that it will.

 

[ATrifleMiffed]

Not gonna have AI ships spamming shield cells. I'm focused on better combat tactics, better use of pips, plus weakening the lower ranks to make combat more accessible. Higher ranks I want to take to the max. My aim is to have a wide spread of AI abilities, plus give AI ships a bit of individual character. So pirates will behave a bit different to police in combat.

I wouldn't mind seeing the power assassin ships that chase you down for defecting use every dirty trick you can think of, plus a bit of good old-fashioned abuse of an AI's capabilities. If a pilot's going to be an opportunist and stab their bosses in the back, you might as well make them work for it. It'd certainly make defection a risk, as opposed to target practice (oh hi, double-rail Vulture, shame you couldn't hit a drive-less Type-9).

 

[LameoveR]

New meme comes!

 

[Robert Maynard]

Well at least the ones that would be left would be enjoying really damned good AI. Because really, as admiral as the combat AI is at this point, there is plenty of room for improvement and isn't by any means overwhelming. To be honest, if the scaling up of AI difficulty scaled up a bit more proportionately with combat rank, beginner and intermediate players would quickly learn which fights to avoid... or at least, they should.

Add to this, if the AI was anything like dogfighting CMDRs (and it is far from that), you'd have a lot less players randomly attacking other players. Part of the reason players resort to that is that they get bored of other parts of the game, such as AI that doesn't present much of a challenge any more. I can't remember the last time I got killed by an NPC (and I spend a lot of time in CZs, MZs as well as deliberately firing on authorities just to initiate dogfights with waves of winged authorities for fun) but I do remember getting shot out of the sky by CMDRs twice on the weekend. Skirmishes with the most challenging Elite AI this game boasts right now isn't a touch on that of taking on CMDRs, not just in terms of skill, but also fun.

Don't get me wrong, Sarah is doing a great job and I do enjoy NPC combat in it's current form, but I am looking forward to seeing it get better and have no doubts that it will.

I very much doubt that Frontier will allow the NPCs to be made so difficult that it risks making players not enjoy the game - there's no chance of selling DLC or ship skins to players who have left.

If AI were to get too good then we might see players preferentially selecting other players in the hope that they get an easy target, bearing in mind the fact that 50% of all players are below median skill level.

What *could* be done is for the game to take into account a player's kill/death ratio, or more specifically NPC kill / NPC death ratio, when spawning NPCs into a player's instance - players who get killed less by NPCs could meet higher ranked NPC opponents....

 

[Try4Ce]

I just recently switched from my trusty Vulture to a shiny new Python. Had enough money for insurance cover and some better outfitting.
Took it to the next High Intensity RES.

First thing I noticed - DON'T PICK ENEMY WINGS if you are alone! Even for a well kitted Python it can become really dangerous.
If you get the idea how to pick your targets, it gets manageable. I can fight enemy Pythons and Clippers without bigger issues, IF THEY ARE ALONE!
Tho, well kitted Clippers now can be a real danger. Already had some intense encounters where the Clippers got my shields down pretty quickly, and circled around me pretty effectively.

I really like the new AI. It can be a real challenge now and actually can be considered "Dangerous". I make a good amount of money, but ever since the new AI came into play, I had to pay for repairs alot more often than before.
But thats great - like already mentioned, duck hunts are boring. The battles were really a breeze before that AI enhancement. Now it can get really intense. Almost lost my Python yesterday tho when I attacked too soon without actually checking if the Python had Wing members (2 Diamondback Scouts). That can really tear you apart quickly if you dont react quickly.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

But should we feel so obligated to do so? I want freedom amd choice... hire npcs for sss or a particular hard mission but I shouldn't have to in almoste all cases just to stand a chance.

I agree.... but then the thing there is, TBH this has not been my experience of the difficulty at all. And I do not, nore never will claim to be a hot shot pilot. whilst the game is a little harder now than at launchj, I would still put it down as one of the easier games i play (albeit with one of the harshest punishing for when you make a mistake) imo the 2 go hand in hand. whilst right now I am happy with the cost of ship destruction, and i am happy with the difficulity (although a few tweaks here and there would be fine, making places like lave, leesti and sol etc safer but with less profitable trade routes, and places like orrere harder but with more potential profits etc.

 

[Jypson]

I'm focused on better combat tactics, better use of pips, plus weakening the lower ranks to make combat more accessible. Higher ranks I want to take to the max. My aim is to have a wide spread of AI abilities, plus give AI ships a bit of individual character. So pirates will behave a bit different to police in combat.

That sounds great. Right now I feel it's still pretty easy taking on the bigger ships with the Vulture. As long as I can stay in their 6 o'clock, I can "see" the enemy trying to figure out which way to turn to get me off their butt. It would probably be better for them to make a decision sooner than later on which way to go and execute! All the indecision means more time-on-target for me.

 

[wstephenson]

Sarah, will your high rank AI tweaks include making them very good at disengaging when necessary? To become Elite as an NPC you'd have to be exemplary at staying alive.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

plus give AI ships a bit of individual character. So pirates will behave a bit different to police in combat.

That would be very welcome.

- - - Updated - - -

What *could* be done is for the game to take into account a player's kill/death ratio, or more specifically NPC kill / NPC death ratio, when spawning NPCs into a player's instance - players who get killed less by NPCs could meet higher ranked NPC opponents....

That already seems to occur with RES in relation to combat rank, so it could be expanded to other areas of the game as well.

 

[Zhang]

Lost my Python three times in as many days in fights with AI Pythons with backup. Now I am running from fights in a cobra hoping to find a station close by with an Asp Explorer. Need to earn enough credits to take the Python back out of the hanger. Went from enjoying the game to evading interdictions and running from everything.

Thanks to Sarah, the AI has got a lot smarter. You now have to choose your fights, be situationally aware, and know when to cut your losses and flee. Gone were the days when you could max out a ship and sit blithely farming away.

I love it now when they put up a fight, and play dirty too. I find it especially fun when four of them wait around then decide to jump you when you're distracted and tunnel visioned on another target.

I can't wait to see what they're gonna do next, thanks Sarah! Make em harder!

 

[newman1702]

On the other hand, I think that the (much) increased amount of interdictions is a little exaggerated (its like half the universe are now pirates) and just does not seem "natural", breaking the immersion, especially on the major factions "home systems". The major factions capital systems are by far the most dangerous for the faction pledgers, and that just seems weird.

I would prefer less frequent interdictions (like before 1.3) but more dangerous (like they are now).

What annoys me about interdictions is when it's actually the system security force who say they want to scan me, but then just pull me out and do nothing. I feel like I'm being trolled by authority - abusing rent-a-cops.. and it's getting harder and harder to not open up on them when they do it. Annoying little trolls. I much prefer pirates, at least I can show them my appreciation by deploying hardpoints and shunting power to weapons

 

[Zhang]

...

What *could* be done is for the game to take into account a player's kill/death ratio, or more specifically NPC kill / NPC death ratio, when spawning NPCs into a player's instance - players who get killed less by NPCs could meet higher ranked NPC opponents....

This. Exactly this.

One should get the "average" NPCs most of the time, and occasionally get jumped by singles/wings of higher/equivalent ranked NPCs. Like they're purposefully looking for you. We know the faster way to rank is to pick on higher ranked opponents, so hey AI need to rank too and they're picking on you.

 

[Sarah Jane Avory]

Sarah, will your high rank AI tweaks include making them very good at disengaging when necessary? To become Elite as an NPC you have'd to be exemplary at staying alive.

Simple answer: yes.

 

[Guidebot]

No, the new AI is not too good, it's merely decent. Just be careful and think clearly about how reasonable fights are before you commit.

Up against twice your number/ tonnage? Well, this might be tricky then. Unlike before, where I had no hesitation at all about engaging an Anaconda in anything viper size or above.

 

[Baton]

I like it, fellow commander lost his Type 9 twice being interdicted by an NPC and we started providing him with an escort, for me it is an interesting change in the gameplay (but yes, it is probably not so good for new or casual player)

 

[Zhang]

That sounds great. Right now I feel it's still pretty easy taking on the bigger ships with the Vulture. As long as I can stay in their 6 o'clock, I can "see" the enemy trying to figure out which way to turn to get me off their butt. It would probably be better for them to make a decision sooner than later on which way to go and execute! All the indecision means more time-on-target for me.

Ahaha, noticed the butt wriggling too. Thought it was a lil joke Sarah put in, now that you mention it, it makes sense to me that they can't decide what to do.

 

[Arubeto]

...plus give AI ships a bit of individual character. So pirates will behave a bit different to police in combat.

I love your work concerning improved NPC AI, but this little bit - "individual character" - gets me even way more excited. Does that mean you aim to have some kind of randomly generated personality? Lets say, some pirate may be cautious and won't attack you without backup, while the next might be bold and shoots you even if he is alone and you are in a better ship? That would be above awesome! NPCs with different personality traits, making them less predictable and more "natural" - within limits of course. Please tell me you are planning to go in this direction!