The new exploration system

[malenfant]

Trouble is that (a) I don't want to spend 10 minutes (or even 5) scanning just to get the system layout and (b) by heck it is BORING. Now, of course, people complain that honk & magic ADS is boring too. And, they are right. But it is - to me - a "good" sort of boring. One where I can be doing something else at the same time. With the FSS you have to give it your full attention to do it reasonably quickly.

I'm going to give it a bit longer, but so far after 50 systems today I really can't see the point. Without huge changes, I fully expect to be retiring my CMDR for good. If I want a game that requires my full attention then there are countless better ones out there.

Maybe they need to have a system map at the start that just has placeholder objects if you haven't scanned them, so at least you'd know where everything is relative to eachother?

Hopefully you're telling them this directly as beta feedback too, it sounds like this change isn't really panning out as intended.

 

[Kenneth McGrew]

And mine. I tried it last night, I just don't like it. I will give it more time, but fundamentally I can't play the game how I previously enjoyed it. It is hugely more time consuming finding anything that I find interesting. I would drop all the new features - positive and negative - in a heartbeat to have the ADS/System Map back as it is currently. I find the new mechanics tedious already.

I'm happy others are enjoying it, I really am. I'm skeptical many of them have the staying power to discover 60,000+ systems this way. I'm skeptical I have the staying power to discover 60 systems this way.

But it won't matter, FDev aren't going to change anything beyond a few tweaks. The few of us who've been thrown under the bus will be seen as a price worth paying for the larger number who re-engage with exploring (albeit for what I expect to be short durations, in the main).

beta is always full of "oooo shiny lets test it" even multicrew is full of open ships, and we all know how hard it is to find a ship in live....

will it stand the testament of time? who knows EDSM will be a good figure to judge but that's going to take some time to settle into the swing of things, i would expect a small peak in the beginning in any case as people try it, i just cant see myself doing the electronic telescoping thing long term

there's a mixed feeling in the beta forums but im keeping out of it now, the positives of 3.3 could have been added in a better way, while maintaining some level of compromise, hey ho it is what it is.

i was expecting more input from FD members to be honest

i cant see myself scanning system after system to be fair, im trying to avoid beta now as its already wearing thin, i am genuinely looking forward to mining though, but you know hindsight... they had focused feedback to develop ideas, some good ones at that - exploration didn't, just a single thread where great ideas were buried fast

exploration may still exist for me i just cant find it appealing at the minute, im also glad i went to the extremes of the galaxy and did a circumnavigation when i did. this way i have a private list of places i can go to and surface map for PoIs if indeed they do exist in the extremities of space (im too close to the bubble in beta and have a cutter to bring back in live...)

i suppose that could be the only saving grace to travelling is if there are indeed PoI 20-65kly out?

i dont know, this may also be the point where i hang my boots up

 

[Major Klutz]

My experience with the FSS in beta, without having seen or read any tutorials, knowing nothing other than what's in the in-game help screens.
I found it tedious and frustrating.

I spent nearly an hour trying to find a single planet on the tuner, as a test to see if I could only scan the ones I want to, but it seems you have to scan everything or finding a single planet is nearly impossible since the arrows always show everything and mask what you are looking for.

Unless I'm missing something or things change drastically before release, this is the end of game for me.

 

[Henkka77]

Without huge changes, I fully expect to be retiring my CMDR for good.

So... you're saying that the nr 1 spot in EDSM's first discovery list is soon achievable for others too..?

 

[Allitnil]

So... you're saying that the nr 1 spot in EDSM's first discovery list is soon achievable for others too..?

If Chiggy doesn't like the new system I reckon I'm good for another 2 or 3 years

 

[Mengy]

Trouble is that (a) I don't want to spend 10 minutes (or even 5) scanning just to get the system layout

This to me is the biggest problem with the new 3.3 mechanics. They've designed it so you MUST do the time consuming FSS game if you want to explore, there is no alternative.

Honestly I feel like a compromise is still the best way forward. The FSS is fantastic for detail scanning a system, it's been designed beautifully for that. But you shouldn't have to detail scan an entire system just to decide if you want to detail scan the entire system!!!!

In my opinion there needs to be a layer of quick info in between the honk and the FSS, and yes the best way to do that is to still have the honk provide the sys map. It doesn't need to be the full data map we get today, but simply a visual summary of how the system looks which allows a snap "should I stay or should I go" decision. I really feel like the honked sys map and new FSS could sit alongside each other just dandy without ruining anything in the new 3.3 mechanics.

The more ways to do things the better, but forcing everyone to use the FSS or nothing at all feels too limiting to me from a design viewpoint.

 

[CMDR CHIGGY VONRICTOFEN]

Looking like #2 spot will be available as well..I'm not gonna explore like this.

 

[Numenor1379]

This to me is the biggest problem with the new 3.3 mechanics. They've designed it so you MUST do the time consuming FSS game if you want to explore, there is no alternative.

Honestly I feel like a compromise is still the best way forward. The FSS is fantastic for detail scanning a system, it's been designed beautifully for that. But you shouldn't have to detail scan an entire system just to decide if you want to detail scan the entire system!!!!

In my opinion there needs to be a layer of quick info in between the honk and the FSS, and yes the best way to do that is to still have the honk provide the sys map. It doesn't need to be the full data map we get today, but simply a visual summary of how the system looks which allows a snap "should I stay or should I go" decision. I really feel like the honked sys map and new FSS could sit alongside each other just dandy without ruining anything in the new 3.3 mechanics.

The more ways to do things the better, but forcing everyone to use the FSS or nothing at all feels too limiting to me from a design viewpoint.

They could have a Honk give us the layout and images of the planets, but no data on them. Hell, cut the payment down if that is all you do to make the FSS how you earn cash.

Not being able to see if there is anything I want to look at within the 45-50s it takes to fuel up and align with my next jump is bad design.

I think we all know why there was no Feedback Forum. >=(

 

[Kenneth McGrew]

Looking like #2 spot will be available as well..I'm not gonna explore like this.

is there anything we can do about it though?

or is it all too late and we're too far down the road now, theres no feedback from frontier and well yeah it feels a done deal...

has it killed DW2 in its current format for some CMDRs aswell? i dont feel i can do it

 

[Klepto]

So... you're saying that the nr 1 spot in EDSM's first discovery list is soon achievable for others too..?

I'm convinced that the EDSM list "System discovered first" will freeze with the new system and no one will overtake anyone else at its top. Оr it will be a hoax, when you visited the system, but did not scan everything that is there)

 

[Numenor1379]

Well, it probably has killed DW2 for me if they go through with this. Traveling 1000ly used to take 30-60min depending on jump range and STILL you could planet hunt reasonably while buckyballing it. With the new system ALL you will be able to do is jump, unless you want to spend 10min per jump figuring out if there was anything to see in EVERY SYSTEM.

 

[Pirin]

I am not doing beta - can someone comment whether they have added any new POIs or anything else to justify the newly introduced time sink, please?

 

[Kenneth McGrew]

I am not doing beta - can someone comment whether they have added any new POIs or anything else to justify the newly introduced time sink, please?

theres some barks - basically like a tree stump..... you can find geyser and existing PoIs easier though, do they exist beyond the immediate bubble??? hmmmmmmmmmmm

 

[Pirin]

theres some barks - basically like a tree stump..... you can find geyser and existing PoIs easier though, do they exist beyond the immediate bubble??? hmmmmmmmmmmm

Do these barks have any purpose? I mean, other than taking screenshots?

 

[Kenneth McGrew]

Do these barks have any purpose? I mean, other than taking screenshots?

Nope

well you can get materials as with others...

 

[Pirin]

Nope

well you can get materials as with others...

Well. If this is all they have added, I think No26 in EDSM will be available too. Looks like this epic exploration update will give me the perfect opportunity to see what the life in the Bubble is like. I might even start enjoying shooting things.

 

[Drazkul]

I'm quite looking forward to the changes in 3.3.

At the moment I primarily cherry pick ELW's/WW's/AW's due to the time spent flying to stars means with my limited play time I'd only get 2 maybe 3 systems each play session if I scanned everything.

In 3.3 if most systems take 5-10 minutes I'll be able to grab whole systems and feel like im getting where I am aiming too

 

[Mengy]

or is it all too late and we're too far down the road now, theres no feedback from frontier and well yeah it feels a done deal...

I feel like it’s a mostly done deal.

Frontier kept delaying the exploration reveal, then cancelled the feedback forum, and waited until very close to beta to tell us what was going on. I don’t think they wanted our help in designing the new mechanics, and what we got was from a designers point of view but not an in game Elite Dangerous explorer’s POV.

With some rather minor changes the new system could be much more versatile and inclusive to many more explorer styles without ruining the new stuff, but Frontier doesn’t seem to want to meet part way.

I think a lot of exploration vets won’t stick around after 3.3, because honestly the system wasn’t designed with the four year vets in mind. It’s more for the wanderers and credit chasers, the explorers who spend lots of time in each system. Traveling exploration got left by the wayside in the design room. A lot of us will adapt and change how we play the game, but many won’t. 3.3 is just too big a departure and an entirely different way of exploring.

I think I like it, but I’d be lying if I said I wasn’t disappointed by the limited scope of the improvements. It doesn’t need to be like this.

 

[Sepp]

...

I'm going to give it a bit longer, but so far after 50 systems today I really can't see the point. Without huge changes, I fully expect to be retiring my CMDR for good. If I want a game that requires my full attention then there are countless better ones out there.

I admire your tenacity. I reached five and the urge to bang my head against the desk until it all went away was almost overwhelming. The new system isn't sensible, it isn't engaging, it isn't entertaining, it's just busywork pretending to be gameplay. It is, in a word, bad. If this is how it's going to be, my Cmdr will be hanging up his boots, too.

 

[marx]

Now that I've spent more time with the beta, I can safely say that exploration took a turn for the worse for me. I could get used to the new system, but the question is: what for? If it'll mean that we keep looking for the same kind of stuff that we did before, then thanks, but no thanks. Hard to judge this by the beta, since new stuff won't be added there, but so far, Frontier have only said that they'll seed megaships and installations beyond the bubble. So I guess it's all just handcrafted stuff, now all over the galaxy.

I think my biggest problems are two changes in direction. First, from launch till Q4, the motto was "Here's a whole galaxy for you to explore!" - now, in this new dark age of exploration (where many earlier kinds of finds will go dark), it'll be "Here are things we placed all over the whole galaxy for y'all to find!"

Second, things in exploration have shifted too much from "fly your ship" to "operate the FSS and DSS turrets" for my liking. The DSS isn't very bad, but the FSS is just too clunky, even after rebinding controls on my HOTAS. There are design problems with it though, and I don't think we'll see them changed during the beta.
Oh, and how "travel far and explore" changed to "travel far or explore".

As things are, from the very first reveal thread onward, it seems most everything was a done deal. Little wonder there was no focused feedback section. Unfortunately, the FSS stands out from the rest of the update, as it appears to me like it was hastily cobbled together in the last stretch. (Bugs like all the control problems, the fact that you can use it without having a discovery scanner mounted, and so on.) The rest of it is pretty great, and I find myself looking at the BGS and combat (perhaps mining too) more and more.
Depending on what there'll be out there to find, I might decide that I'll put up with the simple but clunky mechanics, but I certainly won't be in the vanguard of those who'll head out to find the very first stuff.

If there's nothing really new, then I'll just put exploration on hold until there is. My hope is that the next expansion will bring some of the atmospheric planets, which would mean an update adding more meat to the galaxy, not just sprinkling some stuff on top of it. The rest of the update looks more appetising to me, after all.


Oh, and yeah, as Kenneth mentioned, I'll probably pull out of DW2 too. I'll wait until the update goes live to decide on that, but if I had to decide today, I would.