The New Guilds and Player Owned Stations Discussion Thread.

[Malpherian]

Sorry, not true, it can and does cost very little to run and organise a large guild, I've lead, had officer rank and been just a minion in many, many examples.

Mobias and Goonswarm both spend in access of 20k a year in Server fees (teamspeak, Mumble, Security features) as well as website and other expenses.

So yes, it is true. Maybe to you that's not a lot of money. But to the average person it's an entire years income.

 

[Theodrid]

Mobias and Goonswarm both spend in access of 20k a year in Server fees (teamspeak, Mumble, Security features) as well as website and other expenses.

So yes, it is true. Maybe to you that's not a lot of money. But to the average person it's an entire years income.

For a start, there are alternatives to the things you have mentioned, many are cheaper, some are even free, this includes websites and communication tools, so as I said, no, not true.

 

[Windscreen Smudge]

What proportion of those players comprise the now 10500+ members of the Mobius private group?

The same portion of the Open player base that complains about everything in Open.

It's always going to be the vocal few that speaks up on the forums, that's not a valid counterargument.

 

[Scudmungus]

Just want to say right now. If you aren't repping this man, you likely hate Kittens, Puppies, Grandmas, Freedom, or any combination thereof.

HA! Mi not makin de fries, just servin dem.

 

[Malpherian]

The important part you are ignoring is the fact that DB and the team at Frontier are 'making the game they want to play'. I think it is fair to assume that DB and Frontier were, and still are, well aware that in 'making the game they want to play' that it would be fairly niche. I do not think for a second that any of the team behind this game ever expected, or possibly even wanted, Elite D to become a behemoth such as WoW or the like in terms of numbers. So, in short, trying to berate what was always going to be a fairly niche game for being a niche game is bizarre.

I disagree that this was their intention, theres no reason for a game to have 400+ Billion systems and a 10 year development plan with multi International support A listed as an MMO...

If they do not intend to compete with the other A listers in the market. (EvE, Star Citizen, Star Conflict, etc)

 

[Genar-Hofoen]

The same portion of the Open player base that complains about everything in Open.

It's always going to be the vocal few that speaks up on the forums, that's not a valid counterargument.

Ah, so in other words, it's a very vocal minority of the player base.

 

[Herik]

Malpherian, God I hate this kind of play. And please stop using the misleading argument of 400 billion in you posts. The Open players have to worry about the 160,000 occupied systems where freedom of play will be effected.

 

[Theodrid]

I disagree that this was their intention, theres no reason for a game to have 400+ Billion systems and a 10 year development plan with multi International support A listed as an MMO...

If they do not intend to compete with the other A listers in the market. (EvE, Star Citizen, Star Conflict, etc)

Then why are they making 'the game they want to play' and not 'the game that everyone has played a thousand times before'?

 

[Malpherian]

Not all Games with Guilds have been successfull. All sorts of diffrent games can be successful and no design will ever make every game that uses it successful. I just don't think "but others doing it!" is a good argument for anything, and if there already that many Games with Guild/Clan features then there are plenty of games where you can get what you what. Can't hurt to have one Game that offers something diffrent that people like me want, don't you think? Diversity in the Games market is a good thing.

You are correct, however you forgot to mention that every single MMO without exception, which did NOT include Guilds, has failed as an MMO and their lifespan is generally less then 3 years..

While even really crappy games with guilds last upwards of 5+.

 

[Aewarin Jameson]

Just want to say right now. If you aren't repping this man, you likely hate Kittens, Puppies, Grandmas, Freedom, or any combination thereof.

Interesting character but I can't understand anything he types.

I am sure it was great though.

 

[Windscreen Smudge]

HA! Mi not makin de fries, just servin dem.

Seriously commenting on the subject of your post though. Social networks within games help remove the anonymity of the individual, and thus encourage otherwise asocial players to act more socially and respectfully towards their peers. You're using an Eve avatar. If you were ever a part of one of the decent PvP corps in Eve you'll know firsthand that despite their bloodthirsty behavior towards other groups of players, on TeamSpeak everyone was typically very cordial and sociable with one another. Given that, do you think the removal of a layer of their online anonymity contributed to that contrast in their behavior?

 

[SiriusSeven]

You are correct, however you forgot to mention that every single MMO without exception, which did NOT include Guilds, has failed as an MMO and their lifespan is generally less then 3 years..

While even really crappy games with guilds last upwards of 5+.

MMOs without guilds are often unfinished and half-implemented in other ways too. It's hard to discern cause and effect here.

Not sure if this argument is for or against. The half-finished bit sounds familiar...

 

[Windscreen Smudge]

Ah, so in other words, it's a very vocal minority of the player base.

You and I are also part of that vocal minority. If you're going to invalidate their stance on the subject, you also forfeit any right to contribute to the conversation yourself. If you insist on this, feel free to make what I quoted your last post.

 

[Aewarin Jameson]

Social networks within games help remove the anonymity of the individual, and thus encourage otherwise asocial players to act more socially and respectfully towards their peers.

Not only that, playing an online game and being part of a group / guild / corp can help with those with social anxiety issues - it can be difficult for some people to speak to others they don't know, but with a layer of abstraction (forum / video game / etc) that can ease the problem. For instance I have made over 9000 posts here, enjoyed being part of the Elite community, contributed to many discussions, but in real life ... you wouldn't know I was there.

I get that you can add friends to your account and speak to people in the system you are in but for myself that doesn't quite go far enough - communal channels where you can speak to randoms; group wide channels to friends; etc; would for me add that missing element.

 

[Windscreen Smudge]

Interesting character but I can't understand anything he types.

I am sure it was great though.

Be glad you don't live where I do then. I meet people who talk like that in person on a daily basis.

 

[Stigbob]

I disagree that this was their intention, theres no reason for a game to have 400+ Billion systems and a 10 year development plan with multi International support A listed as an MMO...

If they do not intend to compete with the other A listers in the market. (EvE, Star Citizen, Star Conflict, etc)

They are competing with them and in the case of SC beating them resoundingly, in the case of EVE (very guild based declining subscribers) they are offering a guild free game that appeals to a wider audience. I can't comment on star citizen as I watched some game-play and decided it was an updated free-lancer clone.

Elite is breaking new ground, lowest common denominator standard MMO features should be left out.

 

[mossfoot]

That makes me sad then. Multiplayer is what eD has going for it. If all I wanted was one man and his ship, I should have stuck with X3. It does a much better job at it.

Um... isn't that game a man and his FLEET.

I loved X3 and all, but it really wasn't geared towards you ever having just one ship.

 

[Windscreen Smudge]

They are competing with them and in the case of SC beating them resoundingly, in the case of EVE (very guild based declining subscribers) they are offering a guild free game that appeals to a wider audience. I can't comment on star citizen as I watched some game-play and decided it was an updated free-lancer clone.

Elite is breaking new ground, lowest common denominator standard MMO features should be left out.

They are not beating SC. SC has 50% more preorders than ED has total sales and 20 times the budget of ED. You'll also notice that one of the first features they established was player organizations on the webpage before they did practically anything else.

 

[Malpherian]

As I said:



I also don't see why a Feature not being there should cause a fail, as long as that Feature is not something very fundamental like Controlls, Graphics or Audio.

It will fail in the aspect of an MMO, without socialization and support for such and MMO's driving force - Population - will be minimal. Thus sales will be minimal, thus unless the owner of FD just wants to smash his fortune into ED's development (which he might), the game will fail financially. However as a single player game it'll do just fine provided they severely up the content, like.. on the level with X3.

Otherwise, yea eventually it is highly probably it will fail. Not guaranteed, just highly probable.

--------

Just because ED has a fan base does not make it immune to the riggors of the gaming industry, a lot of other games also stated when they first came out "We will not Support Guilds", and some of them had fan bases just like ED does.

Guess what? After being in the MMO market for a year or 2, and continually losing players and financing because they lacked in depth in game social structure support (IE guilds/Corps), they either

A. Added Guilds.

Or

B. Closed their servers and went out of Business.

Players are Consumers and a developer can want whatever they want, but when your consumers and the market goes... "Hey, yea um you need to add guild support to your game or we wont purchase it..." You add guild support. (Unless you have money growing out of your eye-sockets like Dave" in which case you make your game the way you want, and if people don't like it they can go F themselves. Your game would still have a low pop however. And would never be what you really designed it to be and do.

if you want pop, and you want sales, and you want consumers, Then you do what you need to in order to get them, while maintaining as much as possible your original idea and plan.

 

[SiriusSeven]

Um... isn't that game a man and his FLEET.

I loved X3 and all, but it really wasn't geared towards you ever having just one ship.

Neither is ED -- I have many ships. (But yes I get your point, and you are correct)

I just mean that X3 does a better job of offering PVE single player content, even excluding fleet stuff. Hell, you can do comms with NPCs to apologize for friendly fire, do passenger missions, fight scary alien races bent on destroying humans, run multi-leg missions etc. etc. etc.