I just missed the point if there was one that you were trying to make there, by all means if being in a guild makes things too easy for you then don't join one. Or better yet you could be the person in the guild that brought himself up by his bootstraps and has all the experience in the game and you could be on the other side of my equation you could be helping out a new player instead of the one receiving the help.
The New Guilds and Player Owned Stations Discussion Thread.
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I just missed the point if there was one that you were trying to make there, by all means if being in a guild makes things too easy for you then don't join one. Or better yet you could be the person in the guild that brought himself up by his bootstraps and has all the experience in the game and you could be on the other side of my equation you could be helping out a new player instead of the one receiving the help.
All co-op play supported by current functionality - as advertised - no requirement for "guilds".
Which is possibly why Elite has no guilds or player / guild owned assets
hmm maybe I am slow today! I missed a point to that statement as well.
Yes there are no guilds yet, what we are talking about here is a feature request as in something we would like to see implemented in the future so there wouldn't be any guild assets in place now would there?
*numbers added for convenience*
- Ah yes, the absolute goodwill of guildies....such a proud, consistent, unimpeached legacy of love and mutual sacrifice.....so what if a non guildy gets on your trade route, then what, I'm sure it'll be all peaches and sunshine all the time.
- Barring a 30 minute youtube video, you couldn't have asked the community in any other way how to do those things? In essence wasn't the youtube video the community reaching out to do just that? But without the formalized structure of a guild?
- Ah, living consequence free via socialism, huzzah! Maybe guildies can split combat damage between the guild too, I mean, you can take all the damage later when your shields recharge. You of course would never leave them holding the bill and no one would ever have bad blood from that either. Again, I just love peaches and sunshine.
- I am confused, you want NPCs in your guild, basically a dev supplied NPC to tell you what is the most potent combination of equipment?
- It's a shame the community isn't willing or credible enough to give this kind of advise, that members haven't take hours and hours out of their time to post, youtube, reddit and share this kind of information along with their research. But of course, guildies are all close personal friends with proven track records and they always know what's best. And to hell with personal experimentation, I want it and I want it now!
- But you could, and enough would to make it detrimental to the game atmosphere, griefing behavior is bad enough in areas in open without in game tools to further coordinate and encourage it.
- see point 5
>>>And now the rebuttals are done my turn: it isn't ED, that isn't what this is, this isn't about forming big bands of pilots, maybe that model would sell better, but ED isn't about that, it's about the lone wolf, all the content is designed so that a lone wolf can do it (including SSS). Wings give a limited tool to group with IRL and in game friends, but as soon as you introduce large organizations you need to create content for those, so now the core audience is left behind, and you've lost the whole feel that ED presented.
>>>I'm sure we could get tons of more people to buy the game if we made it an Eve but with cockpit piloting, but that isn't the point! Let me tell you a story: I have a friend who owns a BBQ restaurant here in town. it's AMAZING, best BBQ in the area by far, sells out of hundreds of pounds of the choicest meat he can get his hands on every day in a few hours. However, he could easily make more money doing a tex-mex though and throwing that down people throats because where I happen to live, that stuff sells like crazy, good or not, we've got 2 BBQ places in town and about a few dozen tex mex places and the tex mex places are open all day and night. He'd make far more selling in volume than he does in a niche. So why, if he could have more profits, customers and growth, does he not do a tex mex place? Because he loves BBQ, his passion is BBQ! So what if ED could be more "successful" if it was more like MMOs, isn't the point of ED, ED?
>>>It isn't dangerous to sit in a network of 100 better outfit guildies, it isn't dangerous knowing that if your ship goes you guildies have you backs, it isn't dangerous knowing if yuou get interdicted you can just drop a guild distress beacon and in rush the anacondas to relentlessly pursue that at who thought he bought a game about making his own way in the galaxy. You lose that whole experience of jumping up the ship ladder trying not to die because it is such a major setback when you know you have this big guild pillow to fall on. You've just changed the entire core game feeling and experience. Maybe in Bloodborne/Dark Souls if I die my buddies can all just hold onto the souls/echoes for me and hand them to me when I get back? It'd still be a DS/BB game right? WRONG!
>>>There is a long way to go on this game and a lot that needs improvement, but in my mind, two things are just right: non supercruise flight model and the position your commander holds in the galaxy. You aren't a part of a conglomerate, you aren't organized, you're a free wheeling, do what you want lone ranger free to go about the galaxy as you please with a tenuous-at-best hold on what is yours! Change that and it isn't Elite, it's the same crap everyone else is serving.
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The "guild" will eventually get implemented. FD will let us pledge to a NPC minor faction, the station that minor faction owned will be the guild's station. You can engage in turf war via BGS. This whole thing work well with ED lore and existing mechanics imo. I really hope FD will give us tool to be organized though, such as appointing leader of the CMDR to control admission to the group and other basic guild tools.
How did you make that connection? Where was that ever stated?
No one ever said that guilds were necessary for any other game mechanic, they are their own function.
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Anyone ever have someone bring them fuel? I can count the times I have ran into another player in open on one hand. If I needed fuel even if there was a kind soul somewhere that happened to have fuel limpits I doubt I would run into him. a quick post in guilt chat would likely bring in some help though.
Not that it is a big problem as I have only ran out of fuel once, I think it was day one playing the game.
Where was what ever stated?
I meant that the currently functionality supports all the things you mentioned - clearly they can't be "guild" things as there is - as you keep telling us - poor or non existent in game support for guilds.
Therefore it isn't needed.
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I had a superb experience with the fuel rats when I ran out of fuel. They manage just fine with the current setup and they have a whale of a time by all accounts.
A great example of "emergent gameplay" - a phrase which whenever I saw it mentioned previously always seemed to be a euphemism for "blowing stuff up at will".
Perhaps you should read your own post that I was replying to again? You jumped completely off topic.
Maybe I worded it poorly - it's difficult flying and typing on another machine.
As I said - I meant the functionality you described are elements of co-op play (not exclusively non adversarial) - in other words you can co-operate with other players without the need for "guild" functionality in game to do the things you described.
It was billed as one pilot against the galaxy but it also talked about working with other players - but not in "guilds".
Groups of players - since called wings but not guilds.
Does that make it clearer?
You just basically described powerplay... It's a NPC minor faction. What it lacks is a better way to be organized for those participating and ranking structure so that it isn't just a complete free for all in deciding how to expand. The organization aspect of powerplay is handled largely here on the forum or reddit. It would be interesting to find out how many people participating in powerplay actually come to the forums to organize. I personally have no desire to go to reddit. Neither of these things should be required to coordinate in game activities for powerplay. If NPC's are making the decisions, then it kind of takes away from the players making decisions to control the ED-verse.
This is some truly amazing stuff - if I remember correctly everything so far. Psycho analysis by a recently graduated Communications student, who played Eve for 13 years and was Super High Up and Important Recruiter, and was burned out on it and made paranoid by player activity. Now wants same player activity in another game, tells others they know nothing, while working at a Shell petrol station?
You could make movies out of this kind of thing, if such a hypothetical person existed
I realize your trolling, but seriously... At least learn what the terms I was using mean first.
I was not a recruiter. I was an Executor, Meaning I ran, Managed, and Funded the Entire alliance. Which influenced and employed more people then FD does. Most people that play EvE are successful, There are US diplomats which play, senators which play, Business owners, and other well to do. One of the US ambassadors which belonged to Goonswarm was killed in that one Embassy Bombing a few years back.Also I wasn't made paranoid, that was another poster, I got tired of playing EvE and didn't have the time to dedicate to it anymore. A Valid reason for moving to another game.
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Resulting to personal RL insults? Really? weren't you the one trumpeting your righteousness and how we Pro Guilders where just insulting you all and trying to destroy your game....
Actually if you look through the threads the vast majority of you anti Guild people are the ones lobbing the insults, while the Pro-Guild Union (with a few exceptions) Generally makes it's case, pointing out and linking evidences and citations. All you all are doing is slamming people with insults and the above is proof of that.
* You state reasons for why guilds should not be in game, But fail to present actual Evidence, resulting to trolling and personal insults as a way to block out what you perceive as "bad". Your acting like little kids who have been told Santa clause is not real, and you shove your fingers in your ears and go "No" No' No".
* We state reasons for why Guilds should be in game, and then link spam citations, studies, and marketing models which prove such.
* When asking you for evidence your only comment is "We can not provide such at this time" (And that reasonable and honest comment came from the Mod). For the most part, The rest of you, resort to deflection and trolling.
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On me,
I do not work at a petrol station, I work at a Factory, I also Own a Business I run as a hobby which makes Gaming computers and sells gaming equipment, It's called Guinea Pig Gaming, and you can find my store on Ebay. http://stores.ebay.com/Guineapiggaming?_rdc=1 I do Custom builds as well so email me if anyone is interested.
I am Former US Army, 19-D cav scout, and I have 3 degrees. 1 in Business Management and Economics, One in Behavioral Psychology, and Philosophy, and One in Religious History (Which I took in the Military as I figured it would be useful since the war was against a country governed by, Religion.).
I have been a Dev/Creative Consultant for several AAA Studios, I have worked For a Multi Billion Dollar Industrial and Resource Allocation Company, managing 6 facilities, and over 10,000 people.
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Before you insult someone, and if you are going to insult someone, you should at least know a little about them, otherwise you just "look" stupid and like a fool.
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1. If a non guildy get on my trade route, it happened just the other day, we wing it up and we both got an extra 5% What you think am going to interdict him and kill him with my type9?
2. Yea but I broke immersion, going to type in the forums or watching Youtube video's and it took longer.
3. absolutely, If we are in USS and my shields drop he can move his ship in to take the damage while my shields recharge. Play as a team when playing as a team... imagine that
4. no did I mistype my thought? I was referring to fighting the NPC ships not have a NPC give me advice, as I know If I left out NPC it would read like I meant fighting players and from there it would just be inferred that I wanted griefing to to avoid any confusion on that point I put the fighting NPC's in there. What I meant was a player that was an expert at fighting in the USS's or in the conflict zones.
5. yea but you never know who you are speaking with on the forums or watching Youtube and sometimes they release these things called updates. So I go an watch a video on how powerful missiles are and as a new player I don't know that update XXX nerfed missiles. . somewhere
The option is always there for you to be free wheeling, do what you want lone ranger. No one anywhere I have seen has ever said we should have guilds and guilds should be mandatory. Did I miss that post somewhere? You have the option to play how you want to play, those that would like the option of playing in or as a guild don't have that option
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Hmmm, you posted links saying "Read these, I am right." I gave you the courtesy of reading the article at the top of your list (normally when attempting to persuade people, it is good practice to use your most compelling arguments first). I read the entire article and also checked the "About" section, to gain an understanding of the author's qualifications and motivations.
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When I then let you know that your lead "proof" is barely relevant to the topic, you respond by telling me I need to spend 18 hours reading up "stuff" to see your light and wisdom.-
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No can do, Deary. I have more important things to do than pander to your ego. You are still wrong.
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Here's a link for you in return: http://dilbert.com/strip/2015-06-07
Maybe I worded it poorly - it's difficult flying and typing on another machine.
As I said - I meant the functionality you described are elements of co-op play (not exclusively non adversarial) - in other words you can co-operate with other players without the need for "guild" functionality in game to do the things you described.
It was billed as one pilot against the galaxy but it also talked about working with other players - but not in "guilds".
Groups of players - since called wings but not guilds.
Does that make it clearer?
Refer back to where we've pointed out that the purpose of asking for guilds is not because guild functions can't be done without official support, but because official support would improve the gameplay experience and quality of life of people who prefer to game socially and increase the game's longevity.
The less time people have to spend coordinating their gameplay with their friends, the more time they spend playing the game with their friends and enjoying the game. The more they enjoy the game, the longer they stick around. ED's overall trend is showing some poor player retention. Not abysmal, like some people would have you believe, but it's not great either.
* As a person who recently purchased the game was it recommended to you? how much research did you do first? did you buy without researching and expect guilds to be in the game because its an MMO, or did you realise there are no guilds in the game but bought it anyway with the intention of changing the game?
Eta if there was a complaint in the post you replied to it was about the poll choices and people emailing their mates to start a forum account to vote on something as a favour
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Nice, I provide facts to support my statements, and you provide comics to support yours.
Really holding it up for the team.
I agree with the bits I emboldened - from a guild player's point of view. But from a non guild player's point of view everything FD does to make things easier for guilds makes it easier for guilds to make things harder for lone players or small wing players.
As has been discussed to death player groups can't blockade or take over an area but a supported guild would find it a lot easier to "take over" somewhere such as Leesti in open than a non supported guild and make life difficult for anyone in open who went there and wasn't a paid up gang member.
Just like wings has already made it easier for a group of four to mess with a lone player than it it was for them to do so without wings.
Therefore as a lone player I don't support extra in game support for guilds.
As to the stuff in italics - this is pure supposition about player retention - only FD know these figures. If there are more non guildy players than non-guildy players then clearly anything FD did do for guilds could actually decrease player retention and the game's longevity.
This is excellent. I giggled so much I nearly spluttered my coffee. Keep going please!
FD is not the only one with figures on player retention
http://steamspy.com/app/359320
Is that the entire player base? Of course not. But 280,000 is a sufficient sample size out of 650,000. In this day and age 25% is not "terrible", but it's not great either.
Your immediate response is that guilds will be used to step on solo players more. My entire argument has been that when social tools are added to games, and thus anonymity removed, people act more congenially towards each other, and even provided documentation to support it.
Everyone says that the primary problem with antisocial behavior on the internet is directly linked to the anonymity that it offers. Remove a layer of that anonymity in ED and see if things don't get a little brighter around here, both in the forums and in the game.
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