The "No Game" comments

[Beermachine]

Go read the comment of GTA creator, he mentions specifically that Elite was a major inspiration for him creating his game. He even went so far as to say that without Elite there would be no GTA.

Being an inspiration to someone, or being the reason that person got into development is entirely different to what you stated in your OP. Were is the credit for Richard Garriott then, you could say without him Elite's open world wouldn't exist, Ultima was made in 1981, but I'm guessing that would be a false statement. Or go back further, to the first pong game, or the inventor of the internet, or Alexander Bell.....

 

[Kicks]

Not going to take sides on this one, even though I love the game.

The Mantra "it is what you make it", is very true indeed and you can become involved, or not involved. Your choice.


I think the big problem is not that it's a great sandbox (opinions may vary), but that the multi-player tools are not quite there yet, and the missions need to become more involved. As it stands, we're still in the time of "Fetch/Kill" quests, and although we get to pilot our ships, it's not that different from your regular MMO.

This said, I believe Frontier have laid the groundwork and are far more capable of filling this sandbox with more sand, spades, and buckets. And maybe some more guns. Yes.

 

[Chaotic-Entropy]

Emergent, player driven gameplay is all well and good, but there needs to be a solid framework of things to do and interact with to be able to facilitate that imagination. If you're going to have a free-form sandbox universe then it needs to be malleable rather than just a static experience where the only things altering are in your head. The universe needs to react in kind.

 

[BigDuke6ixx]

Oh dear, it's still sidewinders at dawn, I see. For those of you who don't like the game, can you please explain how it came to pass that you bought it in the first place? Buyer beware and all that!

 

[Luponator]

In an age when minecraft and its clones flourish like there's no tomorrow, I don't see your point OP, ED is not really bringing anything new that it already didn't 20 years ago. The only really new part is the size of the playground, but that's a scalability issue.

PS: people aren't asking for a story, they're asking for proper interactivity with the universe, and that includes proper feedback.

This exactly! There's 0 development since the 80s but a few steps actually (docking denied anyone?)
'Use your imagination' is an excuse, not a reason.

 

[snotface]

Clearly your stuck in the 80s and telling ppl to shut up or off isn't very polite. simply because every reply could be like that and we'd get nowhere.

your contribution is, 'lalalala I'M having fun go away'. great to know, so am I i'm typing this and moving my ship around to look at different unexplored planets. there is some fun to be had in this game, it doesn't stop me from voicing concern. just like every one else, this isn't some sort of circle jerk only forum y'know.

Please do not put words down which I did not post I find it offensive.

I am happy playing this game, shame you clearly are not. We all have a choice, leave or stay. The game hasn't been out a month yet and there was a race to see who could put up the first, "I'm leaving this game cos it ^&&*%$$" posts. The poster made good points, shame people cannot see what he is saying.

As for being stuck in the 80's, A lot of good things happened in the 80's, for example the personal computer. Where would you be now if IBM and other companies hadn't standardised mother boards and form factors? For one you wouldn't be playing Elite now

 

[shrinkshooter]

I see two arguments here: one is that the game is fine and dandy and you just need to use the power of imagination, and the other is that the game, at best, is a solid platform for future iteration, but that imagination won't save what it is for now: an empty shell of a game. Me personally? I think both viewpoints are accurate and don't really need to be debated.

But that doesn't make sense. It's either fine and dandy as it is, or it isn't, and it's just a shell. What IS THERE is absolutely fantastic, and next to Freespace it's the most fun I've ever had with a space flight (combat) game, don't get me wrong. But you EITHER THINK that the game doesn't need to be changed much aside from what it is, OR you think it's a good foundation lacking in content. The lightswitch is either on or off, it's not somewhere in the middle. And from the majority of opinions and reviews I've seen from people not ever exposed to Elite, and some that were, I keep seeing a ubiquitous "ocean as deep as a puddle" analogy.

There is not a "right" way to view this game right now, you either enjoy it or you don't and your reasons are valid. I enjoy it. I'll enjoy it a lot more later.

Well, true, and I'm still enjoying it now after hundreds of hours of play, but I absolutely understand and can identify with the people who get bored after playing for only 25 hours or fewer.

Think you have hit the nail on the head. People do not want imagination any more, they was big screen action where they are in control of the hero and everything is set down before them

That's false, as has been established multiple times in this thread, and it equates to you being condescending in the same breath that you're telling kids to get off your lawn. Try reading through the thread before complaining about kids in their schoolbuses when you had to walk uphill in the snow both ways.

Pointless responce

The irony is strong with this one.

Clearly you do not understand what he was saying. Lack of imagination leads to not being able to enjoy something which requires imagination to play.

Jesus, which PROVES you didn't read through the thread, two of the most important posts of the top of me head explaining how 1) dungeons and dragons and games of such ilk required far more imagination but still had a great deal more content than ED currently does and 2) imagination can't replace a complete lack of game mechanics, like helping a friend in need.

You enjoy imagination that much, you can sit outside holding a rock and imagine all sorts of things about it and how it's a universe within, and a whole story is unfolding in your hand, and you definitely won't get bored after an hour. We're not four year olds with short attention spans complaining that we're not spoon fed, and proof enough to that point is seen if you read through the thread, which you won't, because other people's rational points don't matter, only your opinion, which is of course totally objective and if you don't agree, you're wrong.

You like everybody else has a choice. leave or shut up and stay, your choice

Yup. As calm, mature and logical as I could expect. Do I need to list what kind of fallacy that one is, or you want to google it? Sure hope Parkinson's isn't setting in.

 

[Luponator]

That is, however, a past. But even in those MUDs there was a lot more stuff to do than there is currently in ED. You say that ED is created for people who can imagine. Well, that is you are talking yourself into that. Nobody is asking for MMO type of template game mechanics in Elite Dangerous. I know what I personally want from a space sim. I want diversity and variety. No matter what you say ED currently has very basic game mechanics. I don't know, maybe some of you guys are stuck in 80s and all you need in game is trading, mining, dogfighting, lifeless stations and you will "imagine" the rest. I personally want a lot more, so that instead of imagining I can actually do it in game. I want more expansive game features that go beyond basic mechanics. Having only basic mechanics is what actually keeps my imagination from working..

Very well put Sir. I wonder why people are so explicitly against more options when they won't take anything away from their 'all in my head' experience.
Where's the problem with a more dynamic trading system? Where's the issue with in-system reputation actually mattering? Why would a mission-driven storyline (no, not 15 times the same mission with a different price and destination. A story. Where a fail actually matters and a win leads to progress.) take anything away from those who enjoy staring at FSD for hours?

I am personally glad that games become more complex, more diverse and more immersive. You guys need to wake up and smell the roses. It's not 1984 out there and unless you lived under a rock for the last 30 years we've had quite a few amazing games to compare to that allows us to to see what can be possible in games either its online or single player. 30 years ago we winced and jumped and danced around every time we saw a line move on the computer screen. Times have changed. Gamers are more demanding today because today a lot more things are possible to create and enjoy in gaming world than 30 years ago. Its a good thing to encourage developers to step over the 30 years old boundaries. ED was in development for only 2 years so only that keeps me from calling them lacking creativity and imagination.

There's one more component to this. The development team could draw from loads of experience from other games, see what works&what doesn't. There's nothing groundbreaking in ED at all so there's no reason to not take good concepts from other games and implement them. The industry has developed since 84, great things were put on the market and bad things sold, it's a total shame to not make use of the experience since then and improving a game concept that has all the ingredients for being a superstar. No pun intended.

 

[snotface]

That's false, as has been established multiple times in this thread, and it equates to you being condescending in the same breath that you're telling kids to get off your lawn. Try reading through the thread before complaining about kids in their schoolbuses when you had to walk uphill in the snow both ways.

The irony is strong with this one.

You know after reading your post I was all set to give you a mouthful, but then I thought to my self, whats the point you lack the imagination to understand it..

So here goes, this is a correction to your pointless attack upon me.. I say.. "GET OFF MY LAND!!!!"

EDIT:-Oh and its funny how you have to keep editing your posts after about 10 mins so you can change everything

 

[Fenris Wolf]

Being an inspiration to someone, or being the reason that person got into development is entirely different to what you stated in your OP. Were is the credit for Richard Garriott then, you could say without him Elite's open world wouldn't exist, Ultima was made in 1981, but I'm guessing that would be a false statement. Or go back further, to the first pong game, or the inventor of the internet, or Alexander Bell.....

I've met Lord Britain, even had a drink or three with him. Nice guy... sometimes. Probably WOW wouldn't exist without him.

Alexander Bell, oh come on... Much better to throw Charles Babbage in to the argument, at least he is about computing rather than telephones!

 

[Tubit]

Picture this... I don't know if you are old enough to remember or if you were alive
then, but back in the 1980s computer games all followed (pretty much) the same structure...

You had three lives, and perhaps a power-up, a bomb or a bonus item of some sort. You could get a bonus life/bomb/item at various points through the game. You played till you lost your lives and that was it.

Then along came Elite, which through away the rule book and tried to do something different. And it did. And without Elite breaking the rules back then you probably wouldn't have games like GTA, Eve, Warcraft, etc.

I don't need to picture this, because I was there, and it's not how I remember it. It's not really true. You're making it out as if Elite was the single original game at that time. It wasn't. The truth is that at the time, there were genre-defining games coming out all the time, because the technology was new and the medium was unexplored. To reflect a bit, let's also mention that King's Quest also came out in '84. The original puzzler Tetris also came out in '84, as well as defining games laying the foundations for realtime and turn based strategy games. A bunch of sim games like Flight Simulator II and Silent service were also released in '84.

There were not only 3-life arcade platformers and Elite as the shining unique snowflake. I'm sorry, but that is an extremely rose-tinted view at best. The way I remember it, a large part of Elite's fame at the time stemmed from the fact that it was an impressive piece of programming because of how it used the existing technology to its benefit. It took the smaller parts and made a larger whole.

So, let's dispense with the nostalgia and look at Elite: Dangerous for what it is now, and how it stands on its own. Does it make the best of the existing possibilities? Personally, I would say it has some way to go yet.

Perhaps there's consistency to what happens in E: D on a larger scale, but I'm currently not entirely happy with what's happening at the other end - where we, the players are. NPCs seem sort of haphazardly put together, with no real aims or motivations. They currently seem like very temporary props that exist only to populate whatever space a player is in, only to never be seen again. I would have liked for them to remember me and interact with me rather than just scan -> attack? yes/no.

If I drop into a USS and rescue a trader from getting attacked by pirates, that trader should thank me and remember me. He should talk favorably about me to his friends i.e. his faction. Perhaps the NPC trader could give me some valuable info if he likes me enough. Perhaps he knows the location of a guarded stash of canisters or he hires the player to do a job for him. Adversely, the pirates should act too. Perhaps by trying to trap me into some sort of ambush, bribes or just pursuing me outright. This is the sort of detail I feel is currently missing from the game and the sort of detail that I expect from a modern Elite game. There seems to be no other interaction with NPCs except the choice of killing them. Perhaps laurel-worthy 30 years ago, but it's just not cutting it today.

 

[Luponator]

That's false, as has been established multiple times in this thread, and it equates to you being condescending in the same breath that you're telling kids to get off your lawn. Try reading through the thread before complaining about kids in their schoolbuses when you had to walk uphill in the snow both ways.

This argument will be repeated ad nauseam by those who don't want/need/fear more interaction&storylines- it's the players fault for not being creative enough, instead of it being the game's fault for not enabling the player to be more drawn in. It's also the one ring to rule them all reply: 'Use your imagination' will replace all features lacking.
I'm currently imagining a space dwarf is refuelling my ship and hauling cargo into my cargo bay while I type this, it's quite an amazing experience I tell you. On the next station I imagine them in a totally different outfit

 

[snotface]

This argument will be repeated ad nauseam by those who don't want/need/fear more interaction&storylines- it's the players fault for not being creative enough, instead of it being the game's fault for not enabling the player to be more drawn in. It's also the one ring to rule them all reply: 'Use your imagination' will replace all features lacking.
I'm currently imagining a space dwarf is refuelling my ship and hauling cargo into my cargo bay while I type this, it's quite an amazing experience I tell you. On the next station I imagine them in a totally different outfit

lmao imagine that lol

 

[Beermachine]

I've met Lord Britain, even had a drink or three with him. Nice guy... sometimes. Probably WOW wouldn't exist without him.

Alexander Bell, oh come on... Much better to throw Charles Babbage in to the argument, at least he is about computing rather than telephones!

Fair play, a bit extreme. The point I was trying to make though is that given the nature of invention, GTA would have been made, as would WoW. It might have been called Smash Grab Steal, and made by a different person, but the gameplay would be essential the same (maybe better, maybe worse). Your whole OP reads like gaming was in a rut in the 80's (I disagree strongly), then the saint Braben appeared on the mound and proclaimed "there shall be light" and hereafter a golden age of gaming was born....

 

[Irre]

Picture this... I don't know if you are old enough to remember or if you were alive
then, but back in the 1980s computer games all followed (pretty much) the same structure...

who the hell cares what was cool 1984 except ~500 old timers who push this title like it would be some sort of "miracle game", because it does exactly the same or less it did in 19something.

Nostalgia is nothing but rose tinted glasses, because it feels so good when you think about a game you played, when you wore pyjamas with cartoon characters, and drinking hot chocolate.

Let´s all watch movie remakes of 80ies TV series, this is like Starsky and Hutch or Brady Family reboot just less funny, instead they revived the original actors and got them out of the retirement home and dressed them up like Teenagers

 

[snotface]

who the hell cares what was cool 1984 except ~500 old timers who push this title like it would be some sort of "miracle game", because it does exactly the same or less it did in 19something.

Nostalgia is nothing but rose tinted glasses, because it feels so good when you think about a game you played, when you wore pyjamas with cartoon characters, and drinking hot chocolate.

Let´s all watch movie remakes of 80ies TV series, this is like Starsky and Hutch reboot just less funny

So is being an ass but you clearly will not grow out of that.

Nothing wrong with being old, just better than being a Window Warrior I suppose.

 

[Muthax]

WHy don't you try looking for fun here?
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=86188

They have started a civil war

I mean in game not on the forums

 

[Soulstain]

Go read the comment of GTA creator, he mentions specifically that Elite was a major inspiration for him creating his game. He even went so far as to say that without Elite there would be no GTA.

What's your point? They were inspired by it, took an idea and expanded upon it and made it even better. Many games were inspired by it and did something better. What many are complaining about is Elite were not apparently inspired to make their own game better. Larger yes, prettier yes, but better is what is being debated due to what many believe are missing features or placeholder mechanics. They have in fact stepped backwards in some regards and are now going to charge you extra through expansions for features that were there 30 yrs ago (planetary landings). I started playing games when you had two white paddles and a white dot bouncing between them! (pong). I know what it's like to have to use your imagination. In 2015 I want my imagination to come to life. I want to do and see all those things I had to imagine back then. I want my socks blown off! I know some people like to role play and that's ok but I don't. I pay for a game to be entertained, simulate things I could never do in real life and be part of stories that I will never be a part of in real life. If I have to imagine it then the only story I'm a part of is The Emperor's New Clothes.

 

[baael]

~500 old timers (including me as old timer but not donator) will not handle this game for a year, because dev's time costs, servers costs, and basically everything has some money value. To keep game running new players need to come, and game needs good reviews, when in next month people start to complain about lack of "something" in game, no one will buy it anymore, and you will be left in current state, some day servers will go off and you will not be able to play at all.

There is serious need for "something", and it isn't said that this "something" have to destroy current state, you can easily play current content and there can be some new content.

 

[Irre]

Cool, so next time an MMO lacks content and end game we just sing the choir "you la-la-lack imagination, sing along with me, just imagine the content, imagiiiiiine.."

could be a mega hit

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Go read the comment of GTA creator, he mentions specifically that Elite was a major inspiration for him creating his game. He even went so far as to say that without Elite there would be no GTA.

then this GTA guy is a total idiot who doesn´t know that the original Elte only took the Traveller pen and paper series, including Jamesson name and turned it 1:1 into a game. Which also was done before in the game Star trader. But sure go on, do the fan thing and hype everything into oblivion. Maybe they even invented fire and the wheel next time.