The Old Elite IV speculation thread
nats said:
I'd have guessed 90%.
Your ideas are crap, and you seem to be completely ignorant about the past 7 1/2 years of what has been constantly discussed and debated among the "Elite" community regarding the possibility of a sequel.
VictorT said:
This is nonesense. Most people have never heard of it and probably have no wish to hear of it. However, I would imagine a good percentage of PC Gamers would know what it was, although persuading them to switch to Linux is going to be one hell of a job.....
In the context to which we are talking about though, Linux and Mac users, on the whole, tend not to be gamers. People who play games on their PC, use Windows. Until Linux is mature enough to have a decent market share among gamers then it is quite simply not economical to port a large budget game to Linux.
This reeks of the whole 'linux users are smarter than Windows users' argument and it has no place here.
You talk about extensibility, but look at the communities for PC games, look at the work people put in there. It isn't unique among Linux and Mac users. You will also find that many more graphic designers are using Windows than Mac these days as well.....
Windows?
People are familiar with Windows, it lets them do what they want to do with minimal effort and thats what the vast majority of people want. Cost isn't as big an issue as you might think, because Windows comes preinstalled people don't feel like they are paying for it anyway. Linux is not ready for the desktop of Joe Public yet.
And to conclude:
I'm sorry but this is almost insulting. You seem to be suggesting that people who choose to use Windows aren't 'technically educated'. I suggest you rethink your outlook.
As far as I am aware, the thing that really stops Linux systems from exploding into the mainstream (other than the fact that windows really has a strangehold, think PC, think Windows) is the lack of something akin to DirectX, which I am led to beleive makes the whole fiddly process of writing games that work on different configurations that much easier.
I agree Linux is probably a more powerful platform than Windows and something that you can tailor a lot more to your needs, but Windows is dead easy to use, and understand, comparatively.
I know people who swear by linux for everything... except for one thing, playing games - which they keep a separate windows PC for....
I agree Linux is probably a more powerful platform than Windows and something that you can tailor a lot more to your needs, but Windows is dead easy to use, and understand, comparatively.
I know people who swear by linux for everything... except for one thing, playing games - which they keep a separate windows PC for....
Hey, let's keep this thread on topic.
Linux support and thoughts should perhaps go here:
http://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?p=882
Linux support and thoughts should perhaps go here:
http://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?p=882
Kipper said:
I'd argue thats its partly that (in particular the issue of drivers - there is OpenGL, OpenAL etc which can go aprt of the way to filling the DirectX void), but also the fact that there is no single "Linux" if you know what I mean - there are countless different versions/distributions that all outwardly look the same but have their own particular quirks and software and ways of doing things.
Take for example the installation packages. For windows you download an installer and it just works. On Linux you might need to download a RPM, or it might just be in a tar file which you may then be able to extract automatically or have to use the command line, or you might need to use apt-get or yast or ports etc etc. Its all so fragmented. Ubuntu seems to be gaining a lot of ground recently, but they've started messing around with that now too themselves with kubuntu, xubuntu etc.
Matt said:
Actually there is only one linux. Please see the relevant thread at http://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?p=882
and for worries about unified installers, i direct your attention to the distribution agnostic Loki Installer.
Happy To Wait .
Firstly congratulations to David and the team on a great redesign for the site.
Like everybody who has posted here I have religiously check the Frontier site once a month for many years hoping to find a spark of new information on the next Elite.
I became hooked on Elite on the spectrum (I think) playing through till the scripted missions.
I spent many an evening as a young teenage watching the (at the time) amazing intro teaser animation for frontier maveling at the graphics and sound.
Also spent much pocket money at the time buying up all Amiga magazines that ran a Frontier article. (of which there where many - every mag wanted a piece of the action). (edit: there is a fantastic remake of this animation which can by found at Preferredimage.co.uk - Link - http://www.preferredimage.co.uk/frontier.htm)
Frontier may have been buggy but that never detracted from the pure escapisim that came with the game. Connect that with the short stories about "Life on the Frontier" and you really became emersed in the universe that Braben created.
I sold my amiga when I went to uni and then bought an old one when I started working just to replay Frontier. (never really liked the PC version).
The scope for Elite IV is so vast that as a developer I would almost be afraid to start it. Whilst driving around London in my current sales role I often dream about being a part of the team that creates the new platform.
A universe steeped in the History of elite but where there is a filtering of modern day life.
Imagine a universe where current corporations have dedecated space stations. You dock and see the latest Elite styled adverts from the likes of Intel or Microsoft or Pepsi. Adverts that advertise modern products but in a futuristic way e.g Pepsi Galaxy - The latest cola for zero G drinking!
or Cobra MK VIII Intel Inside!
The revenue goes back to Frontier in order to fund the servers.
Imagine flying to a station owned by MTV where you dock and watch a live gig by an aspiring new band. The feed being fed live from the real world.
Imagine talking voice over IP ship to ship in the same system with a picture of the caller appearing on your dashboard comunication screen.
Imagine customisable ships which you would pay real world cash to shipyards for special cosmetic upgrades and liverys. Buy a custom ship off eBay?
Having a apartment which you can walkaround either on planet or at a space station. Buying items to decorate it (a bit Sims esk ). Earning lots of cash from trading buy a bigger pad or have multiple homes. Imagine a virtual real estate market.
I could continue writing all night however most of you have probably stopped reading already or have had these ideas yourselves.
Up shot is, the game is almost too full of potential to know where to being starting to code it.
Utmost respect to Mr Braben for having strength in his convictions and to understand the "game has to be right"
If it can't do all the things he wants (which is probably even more than we've thought of), I would rather just hold onto my happy memories of Frontier.
If it can be done
I'm Happy to wait....
Best of luck.
Fozza
Firstly congratulations to David and the team on a great redesign for the site.
Like everybody who has posted here I have religiously check the Frontier site once a month for many years hoping to find a spark of new information on the next Elite.
I became hooked on Elite on the spectrum (I think) playing through till the scripted missions.
I spent many an evening as a young teenage watching the (at the time) amazing intro teaser animation for frontier maveling at the graphics and sound.
Also spent much pocket money at the time buying up all Amiga magazines that ran a Frontier article. (of which there where many - every mag wanted a piece of the action). (edit: there is a fantastic remake of this animation which can by found at Preferredimage.co.uk - Link - http://www.preferredimage.co.uk/frontier.htm)
Frontier may have been buggy but that never detracted from the pure escapisim that came with the game. Connect that with the short stories about "Life on the Frontier" and you really became emersed in the universe that Braben created.
I sold my amiga when I went to uni and then bought an old one when I started working just to replay Frontier. (never really liked the PC version).
The scope for Elite IV is so vast that as a developer I would almost be afraid to start it. Whilst driving around London in my current sales role I often dream about being a part of the team that creates the new platform.
A universe steeped in the History of elite but where there is a filtering of modern day life.
Imagine a universe where current corporations have dedecated space stations. You dock and see the latest Elite styled adverts from the likes of Intel or Microsoft or Pepsi. Adverts that advertise modern products but in a futuristic way e.g Pepsi Galaxy - The latest cola for zero G drinking!
or Cobra MK VIII Intel Inside!
The revenue goes back to Frontier in order to fund the servers.
Imagine flying to a station owned by MTV where you dock and watch a live gig by an aspiring new band. The feed being fed live from the real world.
Imagine talking voice over IP ship to ship in the same system with a picture of the caller appearing on your dashboard comunication screen.
Imagine customisable ships which you would pay real world cash to shipyards for special cosmetic upgrades and liverys. Buy a custom ship off eBay?
Having a apartment which you can walkaround either on planet or at a space station. Buying items to decorate it (a bit Sims esk ). Earning lots of cash from trading buy a bigger pad or have multiple homes. Imagine a virtual real estate market.
I could continue writing all night however most of you have probably stopped reading already or have had these ideas yourselves.
Up shot is, the game is almost too full of potential to know where to being starting to code it.
Utmost respect to Mr Braben for having strength in his convictions and to understand the "game has to be right"
If it can't do all the things he wants (which is probably even more than we've thought of), I would rather just hold onto my happy memories of Frontier.
If it can be done
I'm Happy to wait....
Best of luck.
Fozza
Last edited:
VictorT said:
One kernel yeah - but then that doesn't mean that one distribution of linux will be able to do the same thing as another (without some messing around). For example one might come with OpenGL and OpenAL all setup and ready and waiting to be used, another might not. There are wild variations in functionality "out of the box". For example the Loki installer requires an x windows environment...what if the linux distribution you are using doesn't have x? Back to tars and rpms?!
Yes you can install the extra bits and pieces, but its this very fact that you have to that say install sound support for example that I think linux has a long long way to go before it gains and real market share. There are a lot of people who can barely manage to click the "Next" button 4 times to install something on Windows, let alone recompile their kernel with the required packages.
Then you can open a whole can of worms about compatibility across architectures - would someone like Frontier release the source code to their next game so you can compile for your PowerPC or something? I doubt it. Would they release binaries for all architectures? Maybe, but then linux can run on a lot of hardware so it would be hard to support everything!
Last edited:
Seriously, the linux stuff should go here:
http://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?p=882
Although I'm completely to blame for the derailment - sorry!.
http://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?p=882
Although I'm completely to blame for the derailment - sorry!.
fozza said:
haha, Second Life, eat your heart out.
seriously tho. that's a great idea for a revenue stream, I wonder if they've even thought about that.
As video gaming takes over the traditional television and movie watching space/time, and advertizers are looking for a way to break into the video game world, you certainly paint a novel picture of the future.
Smacks of MMORPGism, while i'm personally hoping to have a singleplayer version and the ability to run my own Elite 4 game server for just my friends or clan or whatever [a la, unreal, nwn, et al].. i'd certainly welcome advertisements which stayed 'in context'.
There was an article in a computer magazine a year or more ago, about advertising in games - is it right, is it wrong?
Personally, i'm all for it - done tastefully. Developers would have to not "sell out" and devalue the atmosphere of their game by putting ads where ads dont belong in-game.
But an ad done correctly IMO, could actually enhance the beleivability of a game by connecting the players virtual world which the creators are asking them to beleive in, with real life products they know to exist.
So if you're playing a gritty 1940's wargame, I do not want to see "Drink Coke!" ads on billboards in game. If however we're playing a modern set game, in a city, i'd fully expect that and even welcome it. Though I probably still wouldnt go out buying it.
Developers could even arrange for ads to be downloaded and rotated, now there is a good way of raising extra revenue to fund free expansions! (And to keep the ads relevant even when the game is ageing).
Personally, i'm all for it - done tastefully. Developers would have to not "sell out" and devalue the atmosphere of their game by putting ads where ads dont belong in-game.
But an ad done correctly IMO, could actually enhance the beleivability of a game by connecting the players virtual world which the creators are asking them to beleive in, with real life products they know to exist.
So if you're playing a gritty 1940's wargame, I do not want to see "Drink Coke!" ads on billboards in game. If however we're playing a modern set game, in a city, i'd fully expect that and even welcome it. Though I probably still wouldnt go out buying it.
Developers could even arrange for ads to be downloaded and rotated, now there is a good way of raising extra revenue to fund free expansions! (And to keep the ads relevant even when the game is ageing).
I'd love to see fictional advertising more. The fictional space station advertising banners over at habnet are great:
http://www.binstar.com/?page=forum&mode=3
(check out the comedy ad banners, and keep hitting refresh for more!)
http://www.binstar.com/?page=forum&mode=3
(check out the comedy ad banners, and keep hitting refresh for more!)
Advertising in games is great if I get the game for free - otherwise if I am paying full price for it the advertisers can stay away.
This is mainly becayse I dont think adverts can be done too tastefully really. They will have to be "dynamic" i.e. automatically updating from the internet etc, and they'd have to be relevent for the audience who are playing the game.
So imagine if you were playing something like an Elite style game. What are the adverts going to be for? They aren't going to be for anything that is believable as part of the gaming experience (i.e. they wont be an advert for "Cobra Mk5 GTI" etc) - they'll probably be highly targetted adverts for the latest Dell gaming system or some new graphics card or "gaming mouse" you can buy from Overclockers.co.uk or whatever. It wont really fit in very well in my opinion.
This is mainly becayse I dont think adverts can be done too tastefully really. They will have to be "dynamic" i.e. automatically updating from the internet etc, and they'd have to be relevent for the audience who are playing the game.
So imagine if you were playing something like an Elite style game. What are the adverts going to be for? They aren't going to be for anything that is believable as part of the gaming experience (i.e. they wont be an advert for "Cobra Mk5 GTI" etc) - they'll probably be highly targetted adverts for the latest Dell gaming system or some new graphics card or "gaming mouse" you can buy from Overclockers.co.uk or whatever. It wont really fit in very well in my opinion.
Thats exactly why the developer doesnt have to sell out.
You could get away with global brands in a game universe like Elite, your Coke's, Nike's, and god forbid there will probably be an orbitting McDonalds.
They'd work, but adverts for things like cars or joysticks would probably not.
You could get away with global brands in a game universe like Elite, your Coke's, Nike's, and god forbid there will probably be an orbitting McDonalds.
They'd work, but adverts for things like cars or joysticks would probably not.
I have to say that I really don't like the idea of real world companies advertising in a virtual world like the Elite universe. I play games for escapism and not to be brainwashed by some stinking, money-grubbing, mindless, capitalist scum-company such as MackyDs, Nestle, Nike or whatever. I really don't want to support their exploitation of the 3rd world and their mindless corporate inhumanity in my leisure time.
Sorry - that was starting to turn into a rather vehement anti-capitalist rant! I really should control such urges!
Sorry - that was starting to turn into a rather vehement anti-capitalist rant! I really should control such urges!
Very true, but I've a funny feeling in the year 3250 brands like Coca-Cola and McDonalds will still be going strong, so it would be odd not to see some reference to them. The problem would be the likes of Dell advertising 3.2 Ghz desktop PCs, when by the 33rd century everyone will have super computers implanted in their brains instead...
I like the idea of having a super computer imbedded in my brain! Awesome!
Who knows if we'll have a capitalist, money based system by the 33rd century? Granted we might have, but there's every chance that we might not. Anyway humanity might not have survived. We may have become half humans, half machines. The machines may have taken over completely and done away with humans or just kept us as slaves for their own amusement. Not to mention the aliens of course...
Who knows if we'll have a capitalist, money based system by the 33rd century? Granted we might have, but there's every chance that we might not. Anyway humanity might not have survived. We may have become half humans, half machines. The machines may have taken over completely and done away with humans or just kept us as slaves for their own amusement. Not to mention the aliens of course...