The Old Elite IV speculation thread
serimral said:
Just have a good read of the forums here, David is quite active on here and has indeed clearly implied that it is in early stages of development. I would suspect that this is not going to be a rushed process so don't be expecting anything in the immediate future.
The project that is The Outsider is considered to be something of a testbed for technology to be used in E4 - and I think it is fair to say that it looks pretty stunning.
Yup, what the above says.
Massive potential, but an Elite MMO*** should be definately be PvP, and that means, as has been said, that casual gamers won't get the rewards that the 24/7 gamers get.
Would it be an RPG or an FPS? If it was following tradition of previous games, where everyone was a space pilot, it would have to be an FPS style in my opinion, but persistent, like planetside (why nobody has come up with a newer, better, fully persistent FPS i dont know) so no 'levelling up' and no areas you can't get to unless you fill certain conditions etc....
However, if it was to be an RPG, maybe it could be balanced in a way that not everyone gets to be a pilot. Maybe some people just roam around the planets or stations as traders or whatever else? Dont know where they would get their fun though.
Interesting idea.
I'd quite like to see an RPG where there were no NPCs and the whole shebang was community/player driven, but I doubt anyone will try that
Massive potential, but an Elite MMO*** should be definately be PvP, and that means, as has been said, that casual gamers won't get the rewards that the 24/7 gamers get.
Would it be an RPG or an FPS? If it was following tradition of previous games, where everyone was a space pilot, it would have to be an FPS style in my opinion, but persistent, like planetside (why nobody has come up with a newer, better, fully persistent FPS i dont know) so no 'levelling up' and no areas you can't get to unless you fill certain conditions etc....
However, if it was to be an RPG, maybe it could be balanced in a way that not everyone gets to be a pilot. Maybe some people just roam around the planets or stations as traders or whatever else? Dont know where they would get their fun though.
Interesting idea.
I'd quite like to see an RPG where there were no NPCs and the whole shebang was community/player driven, but I doubt anyone will try that
I'm sure I also read somewhere that RCT3 was along similar lines, something about how it handled crowd dynamics --- which suggests to me that there could be some running/shooting around a busy space station/port.....
I really must see if theres a new patch so I can get into that game finally
I really must see if theres a new patch so I can get into that game finally
keep it simple and sweet
Keep it simple and keep it sweet.
A beautifully imaged Cobra emerges from a launch bay in a space station rotating above a planet. A couple of large freighters are waiting to dock.
The Cobra accelerates to a small moon in the distance, the camera shifts to a focus of the moon and the same Cobra appears coming around the sunlit edge. The Cobra glides gracefully past an old ship graveyard where you see old wireframe ships of past games, an elite game box floats by in the debris, the cobra rolls as an old manual of frontier swirling in space threatens to hit the ship.
The Cobra turns and a spectacular hyperspace funnel emerges and the Cobra enters and disappears.
Beginning of game.........................
Keep it simple and keep it sweet.
A beautifully imaged Cobra emerges from a launch bay in a space station rotating above a planet. A couple of large freighters are waiting to dock.
The Cobra accelerates to a small moon in the distance, the camera shifts to a focus of the moon and the same Cobra appears coming around the sunlit edge. The Cobra glides gracefully past an old ship graveyard where you see old wireframe ships of past games, an elite game box floats by in the debris, the cobra rolls as an old manual of frontier swirling in space threatens to hit the ship.
The Cobra turns and a spectacular hyperspace funnel emerges and the Cobra enters and disappears.
Beginning of game.........................
serimral said:
Yeah, I can see that - altho something similar with a plantary atmospheric launch would also be quite cool. Simple is good!
I also enjoy the idea of a transition from Elite to FE2 to FFE finally to E4...
I dunno.
From the few comments i've seen from DB about the plans for E4, its gonna be something pretty far removed. I think I read a comment that said along the lines of "It will only say Elite on the box if the publisher tells us to".
I think they want to make a whole new game, start again, maybe do Elite like it would have been if they hadn't been limited to 48k Rather than see it as the 4th in the series.
The Cobra MkIII is definately a legend to anyone who knows their games, though, so it would be good if that was one of the few 'reminders' of the games that have come before it - but thinking more that maybe it should be a new slate.
Perhaps if the game was simply called "Elite"....and was billed as a new game taking the place of, rather than extending the lineage of the old one.
From the few comments i've seen from DB about the plans for E4, its gonna be something pretty far removed. I think I read a comment that said along the lines of "It will only say Elite on the box if the publisher tells us to".
I think they want to make a whole new game, start again, maybe do Elite like it would have been if they hadn't been limited to 48k
Rather than see it as the 4th in the series.The Cobra MkIII is definately a legend to anyone who knows their games, though, so it would be good if that was one of the few 'reminders' of the games that have come before it - but thinking more that maybe it should be a new slate.
Perhaps if the game was simply called "Elite"....and was billed as a new game taking the place of, rather than extending the lineage of the old one.
yes
The publisher would be a fool not to mention Elite either on the packaging or have past ships in the new design.
The Elite name itself would probably sell 100,000 copies alone due to all the old farts who used to play it on their c64 back in the eighties purchasing it (me included).
Very foolish to let the game "Elite" die on the underside of a "new" game.
If a marketing bod knew anything about computing history, he would have Elite pasted across the box in the biggest font he could find, preferably on the backside of a Cobra.
The publisher would be a fool not to mention Elite either on the packaging or have past ships in the new design.
The Elite name itself would probably sell 100,000 copies alone due to all the old farts who used to play it on their c64 back in the eighties purchasing it (me included).
Very foolish to let the game "Elite" die on the underside of a "new" game.
If a marketing bod knew anything about computing history, he would have Elite pasted across the box in the biggest font he could find, preferably on the backside of a Cobra.
serimral said:
LOL yeah sticker on the back : My Other Ship is a Ferdelance
I agree, it's a piece of gaming history, and to totally distance oneself from its origins would be foolhardy.
I wasn't saying distance the game from its predecessors, maybe just dont make it the 4th in the series - make it something entirely new and ground breaking.
I think having on the box "Frontier Developments" and "David Braben" would sell the game, and of course a Cobra III
The gaming press will go nuts about it and i'm pretty sure the fans will know what it is even when it doesnt say "Elite" on the box. Thats all i'm saying!
I think having on the box "Frontier Developments" and "David Braben" would sell the game, and of course a Cobra III
The gaming press will go nuts about it and i'm pretty sure the fans will know what it is even when it doesnt say "Elite" on the box. Thats all i'm saying!
Game System for ELITE 4
Sorry for my english
I'm juste a fan french, a dont speak very well english Sorry
This post from the future developpers of Elite 4
j'ai pensé à un systeme de jeu pour Elite 4. un Système basé sur la communautée.
Comme on le sait déjà, ce qui coute le plus cher dans un jeu ONLINE, à la longue. C'est l'entretien des serveurs. mais heureusement pour nous les Fans d'Elites sont bien là.
le principe est simple et est deja utilisé par la communauté Seti@home.
Je m'explique : beaucoup de joueur on plusieurs ordinateur chez eux et ont des connexion internet permanante. il sufirait de donner la possibilité aux joueurs d'installer chez eux un mini serveur qui serait 1 secteurs du jeu ou plusieur systems solaires. biensur il faudrait remplir un minimum de condition. et que le tout soit dirigé par un serveur "maître" de Elite 4.
je penses qe ce systeme permetrait d'offrir un elite 4 moins cher et plus evolutif que les concurants (Eve-Online / X3).
un systeme à developpé biensur mais cela peut etre interessant.
Cordialement,
Arklif
Sorry for my english
I'm juste a fan french, a dont speak very well english Sorry
This post from the future developpers of Elite 4
j'ai pensé à un systeme de jeu pour Elite 4. un Système basé sur la communautée.
Comme on le sait déjà, ce qui coute le plus cher dans un jeu ONLINE, à la longue. C'est l'entretien des serveurs. mais heureusement pour nous les Fans d'Elites sont bien là.
le principe est simple et est deja utilisé par la communauté Seti@home.
Je m'explique : beaucoup de joueur on plusieurs ordinateur chez eux et ont des connexion internet permanante. il sufirait de donner la possibilité aux joueurs d'installer chez eux un mini serveur qui serait 1 secteurs du jeu ou plusieur systems solaires. biensur il faudrait remplir un minimum de condition. et que le tout soit dirigé par un serveur "maître" de Elite 4.
je penses qe ce systeme permetrait d'offrir un elite 4 moins cher et plus evolutif que les concurants (Eve-Online / X3).
un systeme à developpé biensur mais cela peut etre interessant.
Cordialement,
Arklif
I think this is what Arklif tried to say:
The only problem I see with that I idea is that the Elite 4 universe would be a volatile as the real internet, meaning, when a community server goes down, that part of the universe would be gone. Perhaps the core universe should be also managed by Frontier, where all the newbies log in.
The only problem I see with that I idea is that the Elite 4 universe would be a volatile as the real internet, meaning, when a community server goes down, that part of the universe would be gone. Perhaps the core universe should be also managed by Frontier, where all the newbies log in.
stingray said:I think this is what Arklif tried to say:
The only problem I see with that I idea is that the Elite 4 universe would be a volatile as the real internet, meaning, when a community server goes down, that part of the universe would be gone. Perhaps the core universe should be also managed by Frontier, where all the newbies log in.
It is a really interesting idea and it would be kinda cool to have a 'home system' that you can create and manage to a certian extent. It could be possible to have these systems turn up in other peoples experiences but without actually impacting on the original persons creation. i.e. use peoples discovery and time in developing systems to create a frontier. It could really introduce an interesting turn on the whole exploration lean of the game.
This peer to peer system has always been a kind of "holy grail" for gaming enthusiasts. The concept is that you run your own server which manages a single star system (or castle or level in different genres) and players can move around freely connecting and disconnecting from servers as they move to different regions in the game.
The good thing about it is that as the owner of the system you can modify it how you want. You can create your own complex of bases, defenses and traps, and other players can explore a constantly growing universe.
The bad is that its highly vulnerable to exploitation, trouble making and hacking. If everybody has a copy of the server software, it mean with a bit of reverse engineering anybody can find out how to hack it. If you can design your own system to some extent, some players will design systems that are simply no fun to play in. Then you have the technical difficulties of indexing the servers and fixing holes in the game world when players drop offline.
I've heard this idea come up every so often ever since multiplayer doom was released (a level on each server with portals between). I'm not aware of anyone actually managing to achieve it yet. Probably the closest is "Second Life" which has the user generated content, but they keep it all on their own servers.
I don't think any big company would ever take the risk of relying on end users to become their servers. If a game like this ever does emerge I think it will come from the hobbyist or open source game development community.
The good thing about it is that as the owner of the system you can modify it how you want. You can create your own complex of bases, defenses and traps, and other players can explore a constantly growing universe.
The bad is that its highly vulnerable to exploitation, trouble making and hacking. If everybody has a copy of the server software, it mean with a bit of reverse engineering anybody can find out how to hack it. If you can design your own system to some extent, some players will design systems that are simply no fun to play in. Then you have the technical difficulties of indexing the servers and fixing holes in the game world when players drop offline.
I've heard this idea come up every so often ever since multiplayer doom was released (a level on each server with portals between). I'm not aware of anyone actually managing to achieve it yet. Probably the closest is "Second Life" which has the user generated content, but they keep it all on their own servers.
I don't think any big company would ever take the risk of relying on end users to become their servers. If a game like this ever does emerge I think it will come from the hobbyist or open source game development community.
Crayfish said:
Perhaps approaching it from a centralised server direction where the users have potential ownership of a system and have access to the tools to alter these systems but the information is still centrally stored?
Certainly an interesting idea but for reasons stated above I dont think it'd catch on. Hacking / Exploiting and Reverse Engineering being the main ones.
You also have to take into consideration that people run wildly different setups, with PCs running at different capacities and loads that will determine how many players the server could realistically handle. And if you couldnt get into a system because it wasn't 'running' would be a mare. Most homes even on broadband only have uploads of 256k - i'd say you'd need a proper SDSL machine - and thats too expensive/pointless for most (all?) home users.
Could be some mileage though in the sort of system, but on machines managed directly or indirectly by Frontier. So the system 'admins' use the tools provided to create their content. Even then however, what content do you get to manage?
It would be unfair to allow an owner to manage the goods he can produce and the prices at which he buys/sells - a simple exploit to make himself mega rich, even if nobody else uses him, he could go somewhere - buy low, and return to his system to sell high. (solution to this problem perhaps would be to have the systems 'money' finite, and based on how much his player characater has) - this would make a star system in an elite MMORPG a lot like a 'house' in a traditional fantasy one.
You also have to take into consideration that people run wildly different setups, with PCs running at different capacities and loads that will determine how many players the server could realistically handle. And if you couldnt get into a system because it wasn't 'running' would be a mare. Most homes even on broadband only have uploads of 256k - i'd say you'd need a proper SDSL machine - and thats too expensive/pointless for most (all?) home users.
Could be some mileage though in the sort of system, but on machines managed directly or indirectly by Frontier. So the system 'admins' use the tools provided to create their content. Even then however, what content do you get to manage?
It would be unfair to allow an owner to manage the goods he can produce and the prices at which he buys/sells - a simple exploit to make himself mega rich, even if nobody else uses him, he could go somewhere - buy low, and return to his system to sell high. (solution to this problem perhaps would be to have the systems 'money' finite, and based on how much his player characater has) - this would make a star system in an elite MMORPG a lot like a 'house' in a traditional fantasy one.
Kipper said:
Maybe just base the users content rights to generation and naming only. Perhaps also choosing what kind of government, industry etc. Systems have to start at a low tech level and increase over time depending on how much traffic and trading occurs at their systems?
The other side of all of this is that it could detract from the single player exploration/trading/combat aspect. Too much fiddling.
I too thought about online Elite and discussed it on the Russian Elite community forum, and much the same estimated structure of distributed system emerged. It's determined by objectives. There's MMORPG servers with lots of clients, there's HL and IL2 servers with few clients and decent realtime, but for massive simulator this typical conflicting objectives apparently should become much worse. Fortunately, Elite space is not continuous: perhaps entire star sysem must be on single server, but that's all. Hence solution comes naturally - to support lots of players there should be:
1) central "dispatcher" server - it does not supports model of game world, but only statistics, authenticates and redirects clients to and between game servers (associates starmap with list of net adresses, etc).
2) "game servers" - where game model runs. Each supports one or multiple systems (depends of server and connection limitations vs. systems use).
3) remote background services (optional) - like hosting backup fileservers, running consistency checking procedures, etc. Clients must never contact these at all.
Optionally, this "metaserver" also can be divided to "operative" (fast-connection, for combat) and "strategic" (for most "background" processes) parts. Perhaps machine resources would less likely become problem than fast connection, but this depends of AI used. Though "strategic" part is not realtime anyway.
). But players may just login to central server ("dispatcher") without knowing where they will be redirected to and whether gameserver where they current system runs is the same as in previous game session or another, where system was restored from transferred saved state (while another star may be assigned to another server).
)... it's hard to imagine it any other way.
IMO, they can also provide links to others' centrals - i.e. as soon as they gets their public server license and at last their metaserver really works, they can apply to be added in list.
Therefore "game central" is necessary, to ensure univocal correspondence.
"Holy grail" or not, as soon as it's real and needs to be managed, it anyway raises some self-organized structure and positions of responsibility - some decision-makers, some support specialists, etc.
As regards the troublemaking - IMHO, chap who foolishly cheats, self-boosts, etc., instead of sensible co-GMing will not be sysadmin someone would gladly entrust important server process anyway (even without server-cheats issue), eh?
P.S.: Of course, this approach requires responsible and interested admins, but this should be said about any massive online system, right ?..
1) central "dispatcher" server - it does not supports model of game world, but only statistics, authenticates and redirects clients to and between game servers (associates starmap with list of net adresses, etc).
2) "game servers" - where game model runs. Each supports one or multiple systems (depends of server and connection limitations vs. systems use).
3) remote background services (optional) - like hosting backup fileservers, running consistency checking procedures, etc. Clients must never contact these at all.
Optionally, this "metaserver" also can be divided to "operative" (fast-connection, for combat) and "strategic" (for most "background" processes) parts. Perhaps machine resources would less likely become problem than fast connection, but this depends of AI used. Though "strategic" part is not realtime anyway.
I completely agree. It's not integrated p2p, but distributed single server, and all it implies©.
Yes, having lots of servers all permanently online is hard (especially if it's not Google... or even Frontier, but just bunch of fans and independent developers who purchased "public server license" and want to run their Elite4-Anisotropic mod
). But players may just login to central server ("dispatcher") without knowing where they will be redirected to and whether gameserver where they current system runs is the same as in previous game session or another, where system was restored from transferred saved state (while another star may be assigned to another server).
Of course, first (and "Main", in the eyes of community) game central should be started by Frontier (with game's designers and developers among Game Masters
)... it's hard to imagine it any other way.IMO, they can also provide links to others' centrals - i.e. as soon as they gets their public server license and at last their metaserver really works, they can apply to be added in list.
...of course, game-central's admins should decide whom to integrate in their system and whom not to. And there's probation period in test mode, logging, backup and control necessary - not only to hinder always possible cheaters, but just because of unavoidably existing purely technical problems. Bugs in gameservers, to begin with. And of course load estimation is needed too, in order to decide how many (and which) systems can be given to this server (obviously there would be different combinations of traffic and internal data requirements).
Yes, since roleplaying and strategic components exists, some Game Masters needed. More massive it is, more GMs. To rule NPC as individuals, groups, economics and politics... make quests, etc. Not necessary per-system, of course. But this variant too. Certainly bots can perform most day-to-day activities, but AI alone cannot make game world really bright.
"To be Game Master (or game admin)" and "to host server process somewhere" are different things. Of course, many requirements overlaps - like understanding of system's basics, certain level of responsibility and some extent of enthusiasm. Consequently these roles can be combined rather frequently.
It just cannot be p2p, since locations have fixed places in game world and connections between them should be defined as single-valued functions. Especially when it's Elite, where starmap exists !
Therefore "game central" is necessary, to ensure univocal correspondence.
"Holy grail" or not, as soon as it's real and needs to be managed, it anyway raises some self-organized structure and positions of responsibility - some decision-makers, some support specialists, etc.
As regards the troublemaking - IMHO, chap who foolishly cheats, self-boosts, etc., instead of sensible co-GMing will not be sysadmin someone would gladly entrust important server process anyway (even without server-cheats issue), eh?
P.S.: Of course, this approach requires responsible and interested admins, but this should be said about any massive online system, right ?..
Elite4 : Thrusters and performance in combat.
In FE2 and FFE in forward view on the head-up display you will keep an eye on two crosshairs. One of them shows the direction your ship is facing. The other crosshair functions as your laser sight.
I’ve always found it not too realistic that, in forward gun-mode, by moving the mouse, I could/can move the lasersight just as fast for any ship. The only difference I was/am experiencing is that the lasersight-system of, in general, a more heavy ship is less stable to operate. It sort of wobbles.
But maybe that was intended to be a sort of message from the makers of the game, like : “you must be really drunk if you think you wanna fly this one!”
In autopilot mode combat-experience changes dramatically. You’d want to fire another side-thruster cause you’re not able to get this -&#@}^-MK3 FIGHTER- or –same-thing-KRAIT- in your line of fire. But : you have no side-thruster for usage nor can you add one to counter the disadvantage.
To me the handling of spacecrafts, especially in FFE, depends heavily on the rethro-thruster. It’s, for an exemple, why I never could really enjoy flying the 2 ospreys and why I enjoyed flying the sidewinder and Eagle MK3 so much. It’s why both Cobra’s fly like a dog. And why I ended up with the constrictor as my tool.
I would like for Elite4 to give me the opportunity to buy these thruster-types in many, many various versions so I can apply them to suit my needs and desires.
I thought it would be interesting to see what people thought of implementing different versions of main-, rethro- and side-thrusters.
Blood.
In FE2 and FFE in forward view on the head-up display you will keep an eye on two crosshairs. One of them shows the direction your ship is facing. The other crosshair functions as your laser sight.
I’ve always found it not too realistic that, in forward gun-mode, by moving the mouse, I could/can move the lasersight just as fast for any ship. The only difference I was/am experiencing is that the lasersight-system of, in general, a more heavy ship is less stable to operate. It sort of wobbles.
But maybe that was intended to be a sort of message from the makers of the game, like : “you must be really drunk if you think you wanna fly this one!”
In autopilot mode combat-experience changes dramatically. You’d want to fire another side-thruster cause you’re not able to get this -&#@}^-MK3 FIGHTER- or –same-thing-KRAIT- in your line of fire. But : you have no side-thruster for usage nor can you add one to counter the disadvantage.
To me the handling of spacecrafts, especially in FFE, depends heavily on the rethro-thruster. It’s, for an exemple, why I never could really enjoy flying the 2 ospreys and why I enjoyed flying the sidewinder and Eagle MK3 so much. It’s why both Cobra’s fly like a dog. And why I ended up with the constrictor as my tool.
I would like for Elite4 to give me the opportunity to buy these thruster-types in many, many various versions so I can apply them to suit my needs and desires.
I thought it would be interesting to see what people thought of implementing different versions of main-, rethro- and side-thrusters.
Blood.