The Old Elite IV speculation thread

[nats]

Elite 4

I would imagine 75% or more of the people visiting this forum are only interested in hearing news on the development of Elite 4.

I actually missed Elite myself but got Frontier on an Amiga 600 I think I was instantly hooked. I loved the freedom of being able to fly around a realistic interesting huge universe more than anything else and just land at interesting planets. I particularly loved the planet landings.

The game market is getting stagnant and boring these days, I could do with a great game to play even though I'm getting a bit old now to play with 'games'. I certainly wouldnt be able to dedicate the time I di when I was 25 or whatever when I played it five or six hours a night every night.

So obviously I'm going to ask is there any news on this game or is Elite truly dead? I can't believe for one minute that you are going to leave Elite alone considering it must be the best computer game of all time?

Although I can imagine the marketing hype if you were even to hint that you were planning to remake it.

But we were all told that there would be some news in July this year

Nats

 

[DaniB]

Agreed, I've been checking this site every now and then for years and I've never been any wiser would be nice to know if it should be expected within this decade, or more importantly, will it be out before DNF? lol

 

[Redstorm]

Come on DB throw us a bone to chew on..

 

[VGplay]

Before Frontier did the recent redesign of thier site. I remember on thier recruitment page there was a mention that Elite 4 was one of the games you could end up working on with a job at Frontier.

Found it on archive.org: http://web.archive.org/web/20050206...er.co.uk/jobs/edge141frontier090804_Large.jpg

 

[caol]

I'd just like to add my voice to this. I have a very similar story.

Started playing Frontier Elite II on an Amiga 500+ (later an A1200) in the '90s. Have been playing it ever since on the Amiga and the PC. Played First Encounters for quite a while too, but I prefer Elite II. In all honesty it's the best computer game I've ever played, by quite a long way too and I've played a lot of computer games!

I Have recently started playing the Amiga version of Elite II again using the WinUAE emulator - it's so much nicer than the PC version!

Check out this fantastic website: http://www.sharoma.com/frontierverse/

Anyway - I too have been visiting this site every-so-often for many years awaiting news of Elite IV. I have a feeling it's coming soon...

 

[Trebor]

The difficult fourth Album

I am betting that Elite 4 will not happen for some of the following reasons...

1) There are already a myriad of space trading games; the 'X' games and Eve online spring to mind. Elite 4 would have to compete with these recent games and I think that it's a lack of confidence that they could better.

2) Unfortunately most games these days have to be established franchises or movie tie ins to justify the development costs; GTA, FIFA, etc. Although Elite is well know by gamers 25+ it would just be regarded as another game by most and would have to be something extra special to get people to buy it. The cost of development for games now is very high and difficult with a smaller development company.

3) The failure of Elixir Studios who tried to create something special with 'Republic: Revolution' and the recent aquisition of Lionhead has shown that it's a very tough market for creative and innovative games studios. Well done to Frontier for producing 'Dog's Life', but I suspect the sales figures weren't great.

So, sadly Elite 4 won't happen.

 

[Marcus]

I am betting that Elite 4 will not happen for some of the following reasons...

1) There are already a myriad of space trading games; the 'X' games and Eve online spring to mind. Elite 4 would have to compete with these recent games and I think that it's a lack of confidence that they could better.

2) Unfortunately most games these days have to be established franchises or movie tie ins to justify the development costs; GTA, FIFA, etc. Although Elite is well know by gamers 25+ it would just be regarded as another game by most and would have to be something extra special to get people to buy it. The cost of development for games now is very high and difficult with a smaller development company.

3) The failure of Elixir Studios who tried to create something special with 'Republic: Revolution' and the recent aquisition of Lionhead has shown that it's a very tough market for creative and innovative games studios. Well done to Frontier for producing 'Dog's Life', but I suspect the sales figures weren't great.

So, sadly Elite 4 won't happen.

I am not sure which country your from but if its the UK you might want to pick up a copy of Edge magazine, its cover story is The Outsider, one of Frontiers new games.

In the article Mr Braben talks specifically about Elite 4, so it looks very much as if it IS going to be made, thank God!

And your wrong about Dog's Life, I am the manager of a computer games store and it kept selling out when we got it in, all the kids were playing it round thier mates house and then begging thier parents for it.

 

[rioshin]

I've been coming here since way back when - almost ten years ago - looking for information on Elite 4... Please let us know how it's progressing.

 

[David Braben]

I am not sure which country your from but if its the UK you might want to pick up a copy of Edge magazine, its cover story is The Outsider, one of Frontiers new games.

In the article Mr Braben talks specifically about Elite 4, so it looks very much as if it IS going to be made, thank God!

And your wrong about Dog's Life, I am the manager of a computer games store and it kept selling out when we got it in, all the kids were playing it round thier mates house and then begging thier parents for it.

Elite 4 absolutely has to be 'right' - and does indeed need to stand out from the perceived competition. Trebor, you are right to be sceptical; the game has to be outstanding to live up to expectations, and the three reasons you give have to be considered.

Nevertheless, I have never seen Elite as (just) a space trading game - it is way more than that - even though I realise this is how it has been classified since. What we plan to with Elite 4 is quite different, and much of what we are doing in Outsider will feed into that.

Oh - and Marcus - thanks for your comments on Dog's Life!

 

[Steve O B Have]

Elite 4 absolutely has to be 'right' - and does indeed need to stand out from the perceived competition.

Good luck to you and your dev team Mr Braben, I for one look forwards to the outcome and in all honesty understand that you can't make everyone happy

I think that having the attitude of "It can't be released until you feel that it is right" is the best one to have.

 

[rioshin]

Elite 4 absolutely has to be 'right' - and does indeed need to stand out from the perceived competition.

How true this is. However, there are a great many of us who have been anticipating E4 ever since the release of FFE (however buggy it is, it's still one great game).

Nevertheless, I have never seen Elite as (just) a space trading game - it is way more than that - even though I realise this is how it has been classified since. What we plan to with Elite 4 is quite different, and much of what we are doing in Outsider will feed into that.

I just wish we'd get some information on Elite 4, instead of what we've got so far. I seem to remember having first heard of it somewhere around 1998-99, and have only seen the short FAQ about it on the previous site (as well as the concept art of a charcter that was up for a while) - the suspense of what features it will have, what it is going to look like, etc., is growing.

 

[parablax]

After playing the recent darkstar-one and x3 demos, it is evident that the genre has stagnated. Only 'Hardwar' has really impressed me since the days of the original elite on the Beeb.

It would be great to think that Frontier are developing all these titles with the ultimate goal of having some ultimate coding library for David's dream elite.

If that is the reason for the length of this project I'm happy to wait a few more years - as long as I'm not dead before it becomes a reality.

 

[nats]

Elite 4 absolutely has to be 'right' - and does indeed need to stand out from the perceived competition. Trebor, you are right to be sceptical; the game has to be outstanding to live up to expectations, and the three reasons you give have to be considered.

Nevertheless, I have never seen Elite as (just) a space trading game - it is way more than that - even though I realise this is how it has been classified since. What we plan to with Elite 4 is quite different, and much of what we are doing in Outsider will feed into that

Thanks for that David.

Whereas Elite was a ground breaking game at the end of the day it is easy to get carried away. Frontier and First Encounters were very good as computer games go that is a fact. I'm sure a better sequel could be made. I don't think it would have to be absolutely perfect (otherwise it will never be made for fear of trying and failing), it just has to be 'quite good'. That would be enough in most people eyes.

At the end of the day its the gameplay of Elite that people want and that's where so many others have failed. Probably not a difficult thing to get right with a little bit of common sense and some talent! But it may take some imaginative programming and design to do the original justice. I think we all know that even if you were to get 75% of the way to where you would like to get to it would be an almighty success in all respects.

But if we all treat it as the Holy Grail we'll never ever see the damn thing!

Heres in anticipation

Regards

Nats

 

[caol]

... At the end of the day its the gameplay of Elite that people want and that's where so many others have failed...
Nats

I agree absolutely! I've been thinking about all the computer games that I've played over the last 10 years or so and there aren't many that I go back to and play again and and again and of those that I do it is only one aspect that keeps me interested and that is gameplay. Fancy graphics or sound or other effects are one thing but it's the playability of a game that keeps people playing it and makes it addictive and eventually makes it a hit. This is one thing that the Elite series has had in abundance.

Two other aspects that I personally think are really important are realism and attention to detail and again the Elite series were very good at these (e.g. gravity, Newtonian physics, planet landings etc). It only took a little imagination to believe you were flying a spaceship in the future - the game did most of the work!

 

[redstar1]

Two other aspects that I personally think are really important are realism and attention to detail and again the Elite series were very good at these (e.g. gravity, Newtonian physics, planet landings etc). It only took a little imagination to believe you were flying a spaceship in the future - the game did most of the work!

Realism can go to far IMO. If you are after a simulation then great, Newtonian physics all the way. The perfect game from sim fans and the old guard frontier/ffe players.

However if you want to make a 'game', then there has to be a trade off. You can't possibly expect a player to manually land on a planet for example, using a full and accurate physics model. You need an autopilot, and this is the point when it stops becoming interactive and fun, and becomes mundane and repetitive. Certainly I'd like to see realism, accuracy and detail, but I also want to have fun playing it. I want to be surprised by overshooting my landing spot, having to maneuver around mountains etc. I think the game experience is much more important than having a purely accurate physics model.

 

[Kuros]

I know Elite 4 will turn out to be great whenever it's released. I'm sure the game will be a technical masterpiece, but don't forget (imo) the most important: atmosphere. I think Elite 4 will have the chance to create the richest visuals and the deepest atmospheres (no pun intended) ever, from the bustling capitals of the core systems to the infinite solitude on a small rocky planet on a frontier system. Immersion.

It would be great to think that Frontier are developing all these titles with the ultimate goal of having some ultimate coding library for David's dream elite

I think I read somewhere that the games that they are releasing ultimately serve to help develop technology for Elite 4 (and funds too I guess). I think the latest one will be a forerunner of some kind of really open kind of gameplay that we will see in Elite 4.

 

[redstar1]

I think I read somewhere .the games that they are releasing ultimately serve to help develop technology for Elite 4 (and funds too I guess). I think the latest one will be a forerunner of some kind of really open kind of gameplay that we will see in Elite 4.

Given that at the end of the day Frontier are in it to make a living, the game could go two ways.

One, we get an extension of the existing Elite catalog, a true Elite IV based along the same lines and principles of games 2 and 3 with extra bits and so on.

Two, we get an MMORPG somewhere between Eve Online and SWG where eventually you get to walk around planets and such like.

You have to weigh development costs against expected sales. Elite *is* a niche market in todays world and it most likely wont outsell Fifa/Mario or whatever. As an MMORPG in the Warcraft business model, if you get the revenue stream you can afford to keep expanding and you end up with the game you invisaged 10 years ago.

Someone once told me that 90% of a games final design ends up in the bin.

 

[nats]

Two, we get an MMORPG somewhere between Eve Online and SWG where eventually you get to walk around planets and such like.

You have to weigh development costs against expected sales. Elite *is* a niche market in todays world and it most likely wont outsell Fifa/Mario or whatever. As an MMORPG in the Warcraft business model, if you get the revenue stream you can afford to keep expanding and you end up with the game you invisaged 10 years ago.

I disagree. I think a good sequel to First Encounters or Frontier would sell a bundle due to the Elite name and advertising alone - as long as it was a reasonable game!

But I shudder to think of Elite turning into a MMORPG. I have never played one, dont intend to and wouldnt be interested in this at all. When I play a good immersive game I enjoy taking a bit of time out from the stupidity and frustration of real life and society in general. The last thing I want to do when I come in from work is have to deal with that kind of thing in my own time!

Nats

 

[dJeez]

Nevertheless, I have never seen Elite as (just) a space trading game - it is way more than that - even though I realise this is how it has been classified since. What we plan to with Elite 4 is quite different, and much of what we are doing in Outsider will feed into that.

I hope this doesn't mean Elite will go down the MMORPG-route. I also probably wouldn't buy it if it would turn out to be an MMORPG.

I really loved the Elite/Frontier games, played most of them for hours on end, and have never experienced the kind of immersion the Elite series had (and believe me, I played a lot of the "contenders" ). It was the balanced mix of open ended single player gaming (the storyline was nice too btw), easy (and addictive) gameplay and a seemingly endless universe that did it for me.

But by the looks of it Jameson seems to be back in action already, and The Outsider looks very promising (but then again, I love techno thrillers and cyberpunk novels - which probably helps).

BTW What happened to the plans to release (part of) the Elite/Frontier source code (and the Elite Club)?

 

[redstar1]

I disagree. I think a good sequel to First Encounters or Frontier would sell a bundle due to the Elite name and advertising alone - as long as it was a reasonable game!

But I shudder to think of Elite turning into a MMORPG. I have never played one, dont intend to and wouldnt be interested in this at all. When I play a good immersive game I enjoy taking a bit of time out from the stupidity and frustration of real life and society in general. The last thing I want to do when I come in from work is have to deal with that kind of thing in my own time!

Nats

Is the Elite name that well known anymore? Talking to people I work with who are around my age and younger, most of them hadn't heard of it, and they are gamers.

MMORPGs can be done very well, Warcraft is a perfect example of this, you don't have to interact with the other players at all and you still get an excellent game. Although when you do find a group of friends it becomes so much more. Eve-Online is mostly the opposite. Everything in Eve is player driven, you cannot avoid dealing with other players. It is fully PVP and the economy is player driven. It can also be rewarding, but also frustrating to the point of driving you crazy.

Personally, I would love to see an extended FE2/FFE universe MMO. I think it has the perfect setting for it and if similar gameplay to World of Warcraft could be captured, it would be a winner.