The Old Elite IV speculation thread

[Stefan Mars]

Interesting - so game developers don't aim for a specific hardware spec max but tweek the end result to fit the current hardware range? I guess it does have quite a bit to do with how rapidly hardware changes and advances in capability during the process of writing the game. Out of curiousity tho are the games generally written on windows boxes or are there propritory OSs for these kind of things?

Depends on the target-platform for the game. If the game is designed to run on a single platform - say Playstation 3 for example -then it is to the developer's (technical) advantage to develop on that single platform.

If the developer can not afford console development kits for each of their staff or if the game is meant to run on multiple platforms then an engine is created (or bought) that allows the game to run on all of those platforms, including PC. The idea behind such an engine is that the game-team should never have to care about the differences between the target-platforms as it is all abstracted away by the engine. It never quite works out that way though, the game-team will always have to manage the differences one way or another.

 

[Stefan Mars]

So there must be some great grunter of machines to run the unoptimised code whilst the dev process is going on.

We have some fairly high-end machines at Frontier, yes

One reason is the slowdown of the development-version of the game - because we often run special versions that are outfitted with all sorts of instrumentation to help us make sense of what happens. At any given time we might want to see what the input and output of the AI subsystem is, or just what the hell the physics system is up to when you bounce a ball on the ground and it unexpectedly ends up in orbit. Such systems, let us call them visualization-systems, tends to use up a fair share of memory, cpu and rendering power.

The second main reason is productivity. A game development team costs a lot of money to keep going and so we want to keep people working and not waiting on souce-code to compile or for the game's resources to be prepared.

Hobby development is still possible though. The Lost Winds team was much smaller than Frontier's usual size, and the Xbox 360 game Braid was a one-man show I believe.

 

[Steve O B Have]

We have some fairly high-end machines at Frontier, yes

One reason is the slowdown of the development-version of the game - because we often run special versions that are outfitted with all sorts of instrumentation to help us make sense of what happens. At any given time we might want to see what the input and output of the AI subsystem is, or just what the hell the physics system is up to when you bounce a ball on the ground and it unexpectedly ends up in orbit. Such systems, let us call them visualization-systems, tends to use up a fair share of memory, cpu and rendering power.

The second main reason is productivity. A game development team costs a lot of money to keep going and so we want to keep people working and not waiting on souce-code to compile or for the game's resources to be prepared.

Hobby development is still possible though. The Lost Winds team was much smaller than Frontier's usual size, and the Xbox 360 game Braid was a one-man show I believe.

Cheers Stefan. It's intriguing stuff and it's very hard to get an insight into the process because game houses tend to keep that sort of stuff close - mainly because demoing it involves showing some of the game currently in dev.

On the subject of small dev teams producing great games - check out World of Goo if you get the chance - http://2dboy.com/games.php Very clever and created by a couple of guys.

 

[DraQ]

or just what the hell the physics system is up to when you bounce a ball on the ground and it unexpectedly ends up in orbit.

Info-leak appreciated.

 

[zmurf]

because we often run special versions that are outfitted with all sorts of instrumentation to help us make sense of what happens. At any given time we might want to see what the input and output of the AI subsystem is, or just what the hell the physics system is up to when you bounce a ball on the ground and it unexpectedly ends up in orbit.

Yepp, debugging info panels, at my company we call them gauges, eats hough amount of hardware resources. When we activate this we will have to turn down the rest of the features even more then we usually do.

Unfortunately we don't work exclusionary with game developing and 3D applications/calculators where I work. It's a very small part of what we do. So we just have a few hi-end computers. Most of our developing is made on Windows that runes on virtual machines on a big IBM server that we connect with RDP to. This is nice since I can run Linux on my laptop and connect with a RDP client to the Windows workstation running on the server. But it leaves quite small graphic rescources (on the other hand the RAM and CPU resources is of the scale )

 

[The Space Pirate]

I just hope nothing's sacrificed from the game just because the consoles can't handle it; I'd actually prefer if it was a PC only release. That'd serve those licence hoarding console companies right.

 

[DraQ]

I just hope nothing's sacrificed from the game just because the consoles can't handle it; I'd actually prefer if it was a PC only release.

This.

Elite 4 should be how Frontier would be made with modern technology at hand.

 

[Steve O B Have]

This.

Elite 4 should be how Frontier would be made with modern technology at hand.

Heh this old discussion again. Personally I would like it made so that the game is successfull enough to breed a really good and rich modding community so that the game can continue to grow and develop. I would prefer on a PC but if it has to be a console then sobeit.

I want more than Frontier tho...

 

[zmurf]

A game should always be built in such way that it can be tweekt to work on any desired hardware.

As long as the AI and physics engine isn't to complex, you would in theory be able to make any modern game work on any old hardware by lowering the graphical demands. And since in good developing practice you separate the visualization from the rest of the application (in this case the game engine), you could develop the game engine as a component with a well documented interface for connecting a graphical plugin. In that way it would be possible to connect a visualization plugin depending on what hardware you have and how you want the GUI of the game to look, and even make your own game GUI if you want to.

As an example you could have a GUI that make use of really hi-end graphic cards and high resolutions if you have access to this. But if you just have a Linux computer and just use the console, you would be able to exchange the plugin to one that just show the game graphics with ncurses and ascii representation.

I actually made a small first-person-shooter myself that works this way just to test the concept. And it works really great.
When I play it in Xwindows It opens the graphic in a window and make use of OpenGL, and in console mode it uses Ncurses and some functionality in the Screens library set to show walls, monsters and other things as ascii-graphic.
I just choose which visualization plugin I want to load at execution of the game.
(for those who know something about developing methods: I made this game following strict MVC just to test if it was possible to make every part a component (This was when I still was studying). So the game consist of three plugins that are totally exchangeable as long as the new plugin uses the other parts interface in a correct way. This makes it possible to change the characteristics of the game totally just by chaning the plugin, making it very easy to change support for different hardware, platforms, graphical modes, handcontrollers... etc, etc. A really fun project for those who got the time.)

 

[JohannStrauss]

Elite4: original music!

Hello, all!

Now that it looks like we all are going to see the paradise finally I have to make some quick request for the holy creators before the doors are closing:

- PLEASE get the old classical themes back in the game!!!

I know how ugly expensive it is to get the rights for using the original scores of classical music in a computer game theses days (about 30,000 $ each song as far as I experienced it for producing some music record my self and using a sample of Pachelbels canon f.e.)

- But what would Elite be without Strauss or Moussorgsky?

If you have trouble with the right holders respectively the families of the composers here is one trick: explain, that it will drive many, many new young listeners into classical music and therefore into buying the original songs.

Will you?

Please!

 

[Crayfish]

The music written by the Quality Quartet for FFE is some of the best music I've ever heard in a computer game. I really hope they keep it for Elite IV. I'd love to hear what it would sound like properly mastered instead of as a midi file.

 

[Sir.Tj]

I could very well be wrong, but isn't most classical music (Strauss, Wagner, Beethoven etc. Public domain?

 

[Stefan Mars]

We wouldn't have to pay Beethoven but the orchestra that actually plays the instruments might want some cash.

 

[Sir.Tj]

We wouldn't have to pay Beethoven but the orchestra that actually plays the instruments might want some cash.

Ahh go-on the I'll chip in a fiver!

 

[turwhitt]

We wouldn't have to pay Beethoven but the orchestra that actually plays the instruments might want some cash.

But these days, we can all have an orchestra on our computers.

So i suppose that means there is no problem, and no great cost attached to using older composers' music. What's the cut-off? 100 years? SO strauss and mussorgsky are well in there, and Grieg is just about too.

You guys don't need a classical/electronic composer/producer do you, by any chance?

 

[Steve O B Have]

I believe that it is 50 years for the UK and I heard somewhere that the rest of the EU is around 70 years?

I for one am all for not hearing another midi track in my lifetime

I'll say this for EVE Online, it does have a rather nice selection of ambient tunes. Shame it's not enough to keep me engaged in the game.

I personally think that music is an integral part of gaming these days.

 

[Adrena1in]

I trust the game will include the option to play MP3 files from the computer. I quite like the thought of fighting in a battle to the music of "Firestarter" or something, then docking to the dulcet tones of James Taylor singing "Carry me on my way".

 

[turwhitt]

I'll say this for EVE Online, it does have a rather nice selection of ambient tunes.
.

The Eve soundtrack is genius. Really individual and atmospheric.

I often listen to the soundtrack alone, even though i only ever played Eve for a few weeks.

 

[JohannStrauss]

We wouldn't have to pay Beethoven but the orchestra that actually plays the instruments might want some cash.

Well, as a matter of fact: if you want to play some Beethoven you don't have to pay HIM, but his grandgrandgrandgrand son!

I can only speak for Pachelbel (and that was in 1630 or so) and we had to pay 30 grands for his airers to use 30 seconds of sampling from the canon.

And it is not necessary to get an large well known orchestra: just get some Ukrainian musicians to play it - they are as good as the London Symphony Orchestra - but 99% cheaper.

 

[Alien]

Elite 4 or Elite IV or Elite Four ?

Which title do you prefer :
Elite 4, Elite IV or Elite Four ?