Modes The Open v Solo v Groups thread IV - Hotel California

[Phosphora]

you get hung up on the fact that a person is behind the controls. If it was a high powered NPC dictating that you need to go to a less populated area then no problem. Logical falicy.

<snip>

. The AI is a joke.

No, I don't need to go to a less populated area.

I'm in my 50s and have a brain cyst which slows my reactions down. I find PvP boring as I always lose.

I play in solo because I like to go where I want. I can defeat most NPCs, so they don't stop me going anywhere. I find that interesting.

If you want me to keep playing, keep solo/group going. I have no problem with others enjoying a visceral PvP experience, but it should not be compulsory.

Cheers, Phos.

 

[Roybe]

I was saying as far back as beta that if the rising trend of "random PK" PvP gameplay continued in ED without it being addressed somehow (and in fairness, at the time I had no idea of a way that would work, I do now but that's being discussed elsewhere) then eventually the PvP players of every kind, not just the PK types would start finding open to be somewhat barren of targets.

Now here they all are wanting the other legitimate modes of the game discriminated against in a vain attempt to reverse that result. Make no mistake, it WILL be in vain because there's a lot more of them than there are of you and FD wants to keep selling expansions and paintjobs.

I am not pleased to have been right, but they crapped on their own doorstep and I'm afraid my immediate response is to turn back on them a response that they gave to so many of their annoyed victims who posted on here. "Your tears are delicious."

When you did it to yourselves, you don't get to have the game changed to fix it for you.

The warning sign that needs to be displayed at the Open Mode prompt:

Spoiler

Oh, the game will be changed to fix the issues. I'm sure some people will not be happy when it occurs.

It's kind of sad that the folks that will be made to pay the highest price will be the 'real' PvP players...but them's the breaks.

Just a reminder for those that pay attention:

The 12th of March is here!

Time to take our little break!

<and if you want to see something interesting, check out the number of views on 'that' thread>

 

[Zieman]

Just a reminder for those that pay attention:

The 12th of March is here!

Time to take our little break!

<and if you want to see something interesting, check out the number of views on 'that' thread>

Nah, I was on holiday for a week already, won't take another long break so soon.

 

[Roybe]

An interesting potential development in the mode discussion from Sandro:

Well I don't get it...Powerplay should never be played in Open, for the serious players...but whatever.....if they have to salvage Powerplay by giving Open bounuses, it won't be to far down the road that they start giving bonuses for all the other parts of the game.

 

[Faded Glory]

Well I don't get it...Powerplay should never be played in Open, for the serious players...but whatever.....if they have to salvage Powerplay by giving Open bounuses, it won't be to far down the road that they start giving bonuses for all the other parts of the game.

Are they trying to salvage power play? Or Open...?

 

[Notwyn]

20k CMDRs out of what? 1.4M? (not sure of exact figure). I can see that your maths is as limited as your rationalisation. 1.4% of players are in Mobius, everyone else is in either solo/open. But lets pick on the small fish eh, because you havent got anything other than emotive and nonsensical diatribes to pontificate about from such a limited collection of synapses.

My chuckle for the day, thanks. [up]

 

[Jockey79]

Indeed - that is perfectly possible. Some even have mentioned it involves "tampering" with equipment and wanted to know FD's stance on such. I'd be very interested to know FD's stance too!

Who needs to "tamper" with anything - I have a wife and 3 children, all with their own computers / internet devices.
Some days I'm lucky I can even read this thread.....

.... hmm, perhaps "lucky" is not the right words for it.

Anyway, with Netflix, YouTube and Spotify going all over the house - does not leave much for gaming bandwidth.
Open soon becomes pseudo solo in a blink of a matchmaker LED.

Plus, I don't allow unknown computers to connect to my private home network - so people would have to message me their IPs so I can put them on the "Allow" list

 

[Roybe]

Are they trying to salvage power play? Or Open...?

Honestly, it looks like PowerPlay. There are no personal bonuses, it will just reward Powers for having their players playing in Open. <shrug> Seems like a silly problem to try to solve in this manner, as this part of the game is better played in Private or Solo.


It's ironic that PowerPlay is apparently going to be the reason to change the relative values of where we play, and the remark about the 'unbreakable vow' brings concerns that there is some concern about the Open mode, and the devs will 'fancy footwork' 'something' that incentivises Open over the other modes.

 

[Jockey79]

An interesting potential development in the mode discussion from Sandro:

Not the first time Sandro posted something that goes against the Dev plans.
Starting to think he just likes to stir up the forums TBH. As each time he posts something, it never happens - and that is not his first slam at the mode system.

Just makes me laugh how people take his word as gospel on stuff like this despite DBOBE and MB both saying the exact opposite... both higher up than him.
What next, we going to ask the cleaner what the future is for modes / mode switching... lol

 

[Midnight Sun]

I'm currently rather taken by the concept of a success multiplier for Commanders in Open Play. this modifier would not improve personal gains from power play activities, but it would magnify the effectiveness of a power's actions (expand, oppose, fortify, undermine). And the effect would probably be significant.

All modes are created equal... until one is favoured above the others. This seems like a divide that once crossed there will be no going back from.

 

[Roybe]

Not the first time Sandro posted something that goes against the Dev plans.
Starting to think he just likes to stir up the forums TBH. As each time he posts something, it never happens - and that is not his first slam at the mode system.

Just makes me laugh how people take his word as gospel on stuff like this despite DBOBE and MB both saying the exact opposite... both higher up than him.
What next, we going to ask the cleaner what the future is for modes / mode switching... lol

He is bringing up the point for discussion. On the face of it, I think it's probably not the worst thing that could happen...however, with player expectations of Open getting more incentives than other modes for PowerPlay, will these expectations spread to the rest of the player base (well not spread, since those expectations are 'built in')and cause the community to go 'you did it for Powerplay...now you HAVE to do it for everyone else'?

I'm not trying to say this is a slippery slope..but once the idea that Open has a bonus gets baked in...the demand...and logic follows that more should be done to incentivise other parts of the game....like the BGS...it's a PvE collection game, just like PowerPlay...shouldn't it receive similar bonuses for Open play? And since there ARE missions that can be finished by PvP, shouldn't THOSE get an incentive for being finished in Open?

 

[Mouse]

Not the first time Sandro posted something that goes against the Dev plans.
Starting to think he just likes to stir up the forums TBH. As each time he posts something, it never happens - and that is not his first slam at the mode system.

Just makes me laugh how people take his word as gospel on stuff like this despite DBOBE and MB both saying the exact opposite... both higher up than him.
What next, we going to ask the cleaner what the future is for modes / mode switching... lol

What he doesn't realize is it things he says that people see and don't realize he is not the one making the decision will affect people's actions. I can see people leaving

 

[Jockey79]

He is bringing up the point for discussion. On the face of it, I think it's probably not the worst thing that could happen...however, with player expectations of Open getting more incentives than other modes for PowerPlay, will these expectations spread to the rest of the player base (well not spread, since those expectations are 'built in')and cause the community to go 'you did it for Powerplay...now you HAVE to do it for everyone else'?

I'm not trying to say this is a slippery slope..but once the idea that Open has a bonus gets baked in...the demand...and logic follows that more should be done to incentivise other parts of the game....like the BGS...it's a PvE collection game, just like PowerPlay...shouldn't it receive similar bonuses for Open play? And since there ARE missions that can be finished by PvP, shouldn't THOSE get an incentive for being finished in Open?

Not sure if you recall, but back in SOG2, open advocates were quoting another post he made, saying FD was thinking about adjusting the mode system to boost open more.

Not only does he not have the authority on his own to make that type of change (which some folks don't understand), he really should not keep bringing it up as a Dev - DBOBE and MB both had made posts just days before his last comment over adding open bonuses saying that nothing was going to change the mode system, so either Sandro is just trolling the forums or he thinks he is more important than he actually is. Either way, he should not keep suggesting ways to give a bonus to open only when it has been stated over and over by his boss that it is not going to happen.

Not only does it encourage other forum trolls, but it also gives a false hope to open only advocates - which then DBOBE or MB has to deal with afterwards.

 

[Mouse]

He is bringing up the point for discussion. On the face of it, I think it's probably not the worst thing that could happen...however, with player expectations of Open getting more incentives than other modes for PowerPlay, will these expectations spread to the rest of the player base (well not spread, since those expectations are 'built in')and cause the community to go 'you did it for Powerplay...now you HAVE to do it for everyone else'?

I'm not trying to say this is a slippery slope..but once the idea that Open has a bonus gets baked in...the demand...and logic follows that more should be done to incentivise other parts of the game....like the BGS...it's a PvE collection game, just like PowerPlay...shouldn't it receive similar bonuses for Open play? And since there ARE missions that can be finished by PvP, shouldn't THOSE get an incentive for being finished in Open?

read the thread and you will see that already started

 

[Roybe]

All modes are created equal... until one is favoured above the others. This seems like a divide that once crossed there will be no going back from.

I know most of us here will say this, it's their game, to change and work on as they see fit. You are correct that this does mean that they are looking at the idea of all modes being equal as a mistake....at least when it comes to the PvE collection of trophies.

Here's an old thread that had an odd rule...you had to report yourself to the mods and send them the body of the text to be included in the thread by letting them know you wanted to be added to the Vox Populi thread (as far as I know you can still do this)...it's amazing to see some of the names within that thread these days....I've been here WAY to long!

My point in bringing this up was my post within that thread:

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=130872&p=2090191&viewfull=1#post2090191

Basically stating the case for equivalence rather than equality. The focus of the post was on the way we were forced to fight the Lugh War. It's ironic, that now that we have a large scale case of opposing weekly CG's <albeit through the force of the players themselves> FDev now realizes the issue. Equality FORCES people out of Open to have to fight opposing battles within the context of PvE collection and movement.

I understand the 'unbreakable vow'...and still think they should leave things alone...but, I do understand the frustration of the design in this case.

 

[DanaM]

I just want to say "Thank you" to Frontier for allowing people 3 different modes to play the game in.

Reasons to play in different modes:

Solo: don't want to chat or socialize or worry about crunching another Player's ship in the letterslot. Just relax and play.

Private Groups: cooperative play with people I like, or at least respect.

Open: ......<crickets>

 

[Faded Glory]

Honestly, it looks like PowerPlay. There are no personal bonuses, it will just reward Powers for having their players playing in Open. <shrug> Seems like a silly problem to try to solve in this manner, as this part of the game is better played in Private or Solo.


It's ironic that PowerPlay is apparently going to be the reason to change the relative values of where we play, and the remark about the 'unbreakable vow' brings concerns that there is some concern about the Open mode, and the devs will 'fancy footwork' 'something' that incentivises Open over the other modes.

Right, I get that this is a first step, and only 'rewards' the powers, not the players. Of course, it could have the opposite effect, that players who are happy to engage in PP in Solo or Group choose to dump PP due to being less effective and not willing or interested in being 'forced' into Open.

As Robert Maynard has observed on occasions, this could be the thin end of the wedge when it comes to mode equality. I wonder if they think that they can make Open the vibrant living galaxy that they want to promote by trying to coerce players into it. I really doubt it will work if that is their plan...

Personally I'm not sure that I care, I don't do PP, very rarely do CG's, I think the only one I did was the Bcats one, and ultimately, I'm not playing this game to 'win', so I'll happily plod on in Group or Solo, but I would expect a backlash from some players, not to mention a change in focus of PvP complaints towards slamming the networking model which cannot accommodate what they really want, and I doubt that's something FD can change.

 

[Roybe]

Right, I get that this is a first step, and only 'rewards' the powers, not the players. Of course, it could have the opposite effect, that players who are happy to engage in PP in Solo or Group choose to dump PP due to being less effective and not willing or interested in being 'forced' into Open.

As Robert Maynard has observed on occasions, this could be the thin end of the wedge when it comes to mode equality. I wonder if they think that they can make Open the vibrant living galaxy that they want to promote by trying to coerce players into it. I really doubt it will work if that is their plan...

Personally I'm not sure that I care, I don't do PP, very rarely do CG's, I think the only one I did was the Bcats one, and ultimately, I'm not playing this game to 'win', so I'll happily plod on in Group or Solo, but I would expect a backlash from some players, not to mention a change in focus of PvP complaints towards slamming the networking model which cannot accommodate what they really want, and I doubt that's something FD can change.

If they are concerned about PP, this is the wrong way to fix it. As you pointed out...many PvE players cannot be bothered to play in Open...and if they are diminished in PowerPlay they will quit. I guess the same rewards will occur for XBone, which will be interesting since their players are actually forced into Open.

I might have to agree with Robert...I can see an immediate demand from the community that anyone playing the BGS gets the same consideration. There is no difference between PP and the BGS, they are both played in a similar manner...with similar motives.

Then the question will be is this acceptable to the majority or not. How many people are truly happy with the situation of the modes?

I also would point to my post that this is actually a meta play by the devs...by creating a larger controversy over the modes...their changes to Powerplay are relatively benign...whereas without this grenade...the community would be up in arms over the changes themselves.

 

[Jockey79]

If they are concerned about PP, this is the wrong way to fix it. As you pointed out...many PvE players cannot be bothered to play in Open...and if they are diminished in PowerPlay they will quit. I guess the same rewards will occur for XBone, which will be interesting since their players are actually forced into Open.

Last I read, they were adding private groups to XB1.....

Edit;

Private Groups on Xbox will work roughly the same way as they do on PC. An Xbox player will create a Private Group which other Xbox Players will be able to join - only the Xbox Players in that group will be able to see each other.

( ^^ Xbox Dev )

 

[Faded Glory]

[snip]
I also would point to my post that this is actually a meta play by the devs...by creating a larger controversy over the modes...their changes to Powerplay are relatively benign...whereas without this grenade...the community would be up in arms over the changes themselves.

Hehe, yes, could well be.