The Open v Solo v Groups thread

[Darrack]

PG to earn incomprehensibly large amounts of merits is as close to an admission of botting as you're going to get

Utter rubbish, in Solo and PG you still have the same rule set, it takes me just as long to fill my cutter in Solo and take them to Polevnic as it would in Open, i just don't have to deal with pad blockers, hackers and muppets.
Tell me how that's botting??

If anything you are handicapping yourself in Open.
Ive also had this argument discussion before, i did fortification for a complete cycle in Open and wasn't attacked by a single PP commander, never saw a sausage, all i did was add two more muppets to my block list for clogging a letter box.

Look at it this way - would you do your great fun hauling in solo if you were 50/50 that I might just press a button and cancel all efforts of you and your group?

No idea how to answer this as i have no idea what the question is?

If you want people to engage in a competitive feature

Its not a competitive feature, Elite is not a PvP game.

I am absolutely certain that the combination of available exploits AND PG/solo to hide their use works against that

I see far more exploits in Open than i ever do in Solo so that holds no water at all.

O7

 

[[VR] Bulbulunufus]

Utter rubbish, in Solo and PG you still have the same rule set,

No, you don't! You can't be found botting/AFKing/hacking. In open you can. I mentioned powerplay CZs. Fine that you don't get it.

 

[[VR] Bulbulunufus]

Ive also had this argument discussion before, i did fortification for a complete cycle in Open and wasn't attacked by a single PP commander, never saw a sausage, all i did was add two more muppets to my block list for clogging a letter box.

Sounds again like open only would barely hurt you. Certainly wouldn't drive you fron the game. So what's the real agenda here?

 

[[VR] Bulbulunufus]

No idea how to answer this as i have no idea what the question is?

It's not hard, but I answered for you so okay.

Its not a competitive feature, Elite is not a PvP game.

Powerplay is an overtly player vs player activity. Deny that and no-one will take you seriously.

I see far more exploits in Open than i ever do in Solo so that holds no water at all.

O7

You see nothing in solo. No-one sees what's happening there, that's the point! Bizarre statement.

 

[Rebel Yell]

Powerplay is an overtly player vs player activity. Deny that and no-one will take you seriously.

100% adamant.

 

[Darrack]

Powerplay is an overtly player vs player activity. Deny that and no-one will take you seriously.

What is this a playground?

Powerplay can be done completely without any combat at all, its called fortifying, nothing in any of the Powerplay descriptions mentions anything at all about combat vs other players being mandatory.

O7

 

[Darrack]

Sounds again like open only would barely hurt you. Certainly wouldn't drive you fron the game. So what's the real agenda here?

Your right, it probably wouldn't, my agenda is to not have to bother with muppets, hackers and such, Solo is there for that reason or i can just do Open and block everyone.
But then pvp folks would moan about that to

O7

 

[angusmadmac1]

I think everyone should remember that all posts should come with the recognised addition of "In my opinion " at the begining ??
So "in my opinion " If PvP was meant to be a thing then PG and solo would never be a thing . In fact the only agreed PvP was CQC and we all know how well that's going ???
In all the years I've been in the forum Fdev have never changed their stance no matter how loudly it's been shouted.

 

[Northpin]

Powerplay is an overtly player vs player activity. Deny that and no-one will take you seriously.

Nope, it isnt.
It would be if you got merits from PVP only
But it isn't.
You still have to fill up the PVE buckets and make sure you empty them before the tick or the maintenance

The entire game is built on PVE, every single game objective is PVE related.
The competitive player versus player does exist, but it is asynchronous and comes from counting the PVE buckets at the end of the day (BGS) or at the end of the week (PP)

 

[[VR] Bulbulunufus]

What is this a playground?

Powerplay can be done completely without any combat at all, its called fortifying, nothing in any of the Powerplay descriptions mentions anything at all about combat vs other players being mandatory.

O7

But why fortify? Because players might undermine your power and turmoil it. Sure you could have a net negative power that needs to be fortified to not lose territory, regardless of player activity, but player activity against your power is the dominant factor you're protecting against. Inherently. Players. Vs. Players. It is very clearly designed to create rivalries and competitive play. Sides competing over control. Everything about it is phrased to make powers go against each other. You disputed it being competitive, surely everyone here can see how absurd that is?

 

[Darrack]

You disputed it being competitive

Nope i didn't, i said it isn't PvP, Powerplay never has been.
PP is obviously competitive but im playing against PVE powers and npcs, nothing to do with other players.

O7

 

[[VR] Bulbulunufus]

Okay I'm going to go back to my original post with footnotes for the reader because people are getting lost in their own invented sidetracks.

Common practice is not it. But given the nature of e.g. powerplay combat zones, doing them in PG to earn incomprehensibly large amounts of merits

Too large to be easily explainable as "some keen pilots who went a bit overboard", in an eminently exploitable PvE mechanic - not casual solo guy Darrack amusing himself with some mates hauling.

is as close to an admission of botting as you're going to get. Because no-one is going to admit it. The problem is not even whether you did or not, but the inability for anyone to know either way, in the knowledge that botting is a thing, has happened before, some people will go low to win, and given a lack of confidence in FDev's ability or interest in tackling it.

The issue is trust - if people can easily become convinced a feature (PowerPlay here) isn't reflecting merit and effort, then they'll abandon it. Currently, the burden is on sides that don't get along, to trust each other to not use exploits. Believe me, if you go to PG and come back with a million merits, I'm going to be questioning where tf they came from. That's not a me thing.

Look at it this way - would you do your great fun hauling in solo if you were 50/50 that I might just press a button and cancel all efforts of you and your group? As someone who won't go to open because you know someone somewhere one day will exploit the weakness of your ship to undo some game progress, I suspect not.

You haul all week to fortify. I "press a button" to wipe all that effort out. Would you carry on every week? It's hypothetical to get you to see where I'm coming from. Given pad blockers are too much sacrifice for you, I'm guessing not.

If you want people to engage in a competitive feature, they need assurance that their success or failure depends on merit of the two sides, expressed via broadly sensible gameplay mechanics. I am absolutely certain that the combination of available exploits AND PG/solo to hide their use works against that.

You can do shady stuff to a game-breaking extent without anyone ever knowing. For me - I damn well want people to know that I'm doing things the right and fair way. The only way is for me to be in open, and for my enemies to be confident of that fact.

 

[[VR] Bulbulunufus]

Its not a competitive feature, Elite is not a PvP game.

 

[[VR] Bulbulunufus]

Nope i didn't, i said it isn't PvP, Powerplay never has been.
PP is obviously competitive but im playing against PVE powers and npcs, nothing to do with other players.

O7

See message above. This is becoming disengenuous.

 

[Darrack]

You haul all week to fortify. I "press a button" to wipe all that effort out. Would you carry on every week? It's hypothetical to get you to see where I'm coming from. Given pad blockers are too much sacrifice for you, I'm guessing not.

Whats this 'I win button'? most small systems take me 6 runs in a cutter, once its done its done, how is it undone?

O7

 

[[VR] Bulbulunufus]

It's fine if you just don't understand that powerplay is driven entirely by players. But it rather disqualifies you from making any arguments about how it should be designed.

 

[Darrack]

It's fine if you just don't understand that powerplay is driven entirely by players. But it rather disqualifies you from making any arguments about how it should be designed.

That didn't answer my question, but hey ho, i will carry on with my Powerplay when im in the bubble.

O7

 

[[VR] Bulbulunufus]

Whats this 'I win button'? most small systems take me 6 runs in a cutter, once its done its done, how is it undone?

O7

Undermining.

But my main example is combat expansions. The iwin button is "botting across many accounts for the whole week, with hacks to negate damage taken and add DPS to speed it up".

(Edit - the reason for this example is that it's the one most often cited as amenable to AFK/botting)

 

[[VR] Bulbulunufus]

That didn't answer my question, but hey ho, i will carry on with my Powerplay when im in the bubble.

O7

Was just a comment .

 

[Darrack]

with hacks to negate damage

That has nothing to do with PvP open or Solo/PG, that's an issue for Fdev, not the players.

O7