The Open v Solo v Groups thread

[Helmut Grokenberger]

associating a "human [bad] behaviour" with "in-game [bad] behaviour".

This is a hot topic, so I am going to touch it only very lightly. While calling griefers and gankers sociopaths and the like might be a touch too much, one might call it very obvious that it's a personality treat when someone does not care if they cause another player grief (this is amplified of course by the anonymity of online gaming). In real life I would not want to play with someone like that, and if they were my friends I would call them out for it. And I do so in this game, too. It is simply an illusion that online behavior is completely decoupled from your "real" personality.

Remember the infamous interview on the Pilot's channel with the ganker that shall not be named? I have interacted with that ganker (outside ganking context), I have even played with them on occasion, and while he seems a nice dude in general and is probably nice and easy to hang out with IRL - or in-game if you're part of his in-group - , he came across as a total douchebag in that interview and it didn't help the poor misunderstood ganker's cause. And that was his own personality in that interview, not his "online avatar". And yes, I would also tell him that to his face. I might even have done that already.

Some people tend to either forget or deliberately ignore that what you find funny amongst your posse might not be so funny for a stranger.

Wow. That was more than lightly touched. Damn.

This sub is an echo chamber too, it's all depending on who's hearing... and yeah "seal clubbling" is another opinion, given that the situation at Chamberlain's is also a consequence of an evident game play flaw (introduced with Odyssey and which has only recently seen a partial fix at game launch level). They're shooting pixels, not ducks.

First, a flaw in the game is no excuse for crappy behavior, and second, you might be shooting pixels, but you are playing with other people. Do as you like, blaze your own trail and all that, but stop crying when others don't want to play with you.

 

[Helmut Grokenberger]

Also, I have to add to that. I hate that "it's only pixels" argument. It is so fake and dishonest. You can dismiss any complaint with "it's only <X>, dude!".

When you go to the beach and your kids build a sandcastle, and some brats come along and stomp it down, it is atill an ass move and causes grief, even if the sandcastle would have been destroyed with the next flood anyway. "it's just sand lol" is just not a valid argument when your kids are crying because some parents didn't teach theirs to not behave like cavemen.

 

[Brrokk]

This is a hot topic, so I am going to touch it only very lightly. While calling griefers and gankers sociopaths and the like might be a touch too much, one might call it very obvious that it's a personality treat when someone does not care if they cause another player grief (this is amplified of course by the anonymity of online gaming). In real life I would not want to play with someone like that, and if they were my friends I would call them out for it. And I do so in this game, too. It is simply an illusion that online behavior is completely decoupled from your "real" personality.

Remember the infamous interview on the Pilot's channel with the ganker that shall not be named? I have interacted with that ganker (outside ganking context), I have even played with them on occasion, and while he seems a nice dude in general and is probably nice and easy to hang out with IRL - or in-game if you're part of his in-group - , he came across as a total douchebag in that interview and it didn't help the poor misunderstood ganker's cause. And that was his own personality in that interview, not his "online avatar". And yes, I would also tell him that to his face. I might even have done that already.

Some people tend to either forget or deliberately ignore that what you find funny amongst your posse might not be so funny for a stranger.

Wow. That was more than lightly touched. Damn.


First, a flaw in the game is no excuse for crappy behavior, and second, you might be shooting pixels, but you are playing with other people. Do as you like, blaze your own trail and all that, but stop crying when others don't want to play with you.

I wouldn't decouple game behaviour from RL personality either; it's obvious that one follows from the other. But I prefer a more pragmatic approach. When playing a multiplayer game I want to have a good time and I also feel a responsibility to make it a good game experience for players I meet. That doesn't mean we can't be rivals or opponents, but I want both of us to enjoy being opponents if that's how it is. If someone else doesn't return the favour I don't blame them, but I also don't play with them in future.

ED gives me the tools to make that decision. (And the recent part of this thread has been discussing Open-PvE as a possible additional one).

The mere fact that I have this choice is the entire reason for this immensely long thread!

 

[Helmut Grokenberger]

When playing a multiplayer game I want to have a good time and I also feel a responsibility to make it a good game experience for players I meet.

Commendable .

but I also don't play with them in future.

But said person should not be surprised or even complain that you don't want to play with them in the future. Shoicking, I know.

The mere fact that I have this choice is the entire reason for this immensely long thread!

That and the fact that some don't want to accept that people are allowed to choose whom to play with, and some even want that be taken away.

 

[Jockey79]

Also, I have to add to that. I hate that "it's only pixels" argument. It is so fake and dishonest. You can dismiss any complaint with "it's only <X>, dude!".

When you go to the beach and your kids build a sandcastle, and some brats come along and stomp it down, it is atill an ass move and causes grief, even if the sandcastle would have been destroyed with the next flood anyway. "it's just sand lol" is just not a valid argument when your kids are crying because some parents didn't teach theirs to not behave like cavemen.

Exactly.

 

[WhiteHaulerMan]

I suggest the "PvPers" stop playing the vicim role. Those who are responsible for PvPers (griefers, really, but they are part of the PvP community, or at least identify themselves as such) being frowned upon are so because they are judged by their actions. Does it treat the "real" PvPers unfairly? Maybe. But those who consider themselves "real" PvPers while spouting "haha ship go boom" nonsense everywhere they go maybe should think twice before they speak. Good advice for life in general, too .

I think folk forget (or disregard) exactly how bad PvPists sometimes got treated in a out of game context back in the games heyday in a real world context by elements of the 'friendly' PvE community.

Having to explain to my employer why our server crash due to an DDOS email spam attack that referred to myself as a terrorist (for 'UA Bombing') after the tacitly approved name and shaming thread got put up on these forums was not a particularly good time.

Never mind the drama surrounding the Paliative care nurse who flew with SDC, the borderline stalking that went on to uncover folks real names, or the self employed chap who's customers received flurries of 'Do you want to really do Business with someone who does stuff like this in a game?' type emails.

 

[Ozric]

I think folk forget (or disregard) exactly how bad PvPists sometimes got treated in a out of game context back in the games heyday in a real world context by elements of the 'friendly' PvE community.

Having to explain to my employer why our server crash due to an DDOS email spam attack that referred to myself as a terrorist (for 'UA Bombing') after the tacitly approved name and shaming thread got put up on these forums was not a particularly good time.

Never mind the drama surrounding the Paliative care nurse who flew with SDC, the borderline stalking that went on to uncover folks real names, or the self employed chap who's customers received flurries of 'Do you want to really do Business with someone who does stuff like this in a game?' type emails.

Yes and people have contacted the Police to get in touch with Frontier about my abusive actions, all because they got a warning on a forum, that I didn't even do.

Lots of people have issues that make them unable to successfully disassociate one thing from another, and have a sense of perspective. There are literally hundreds of stories that could be told by all "sides".


So to all of you let's not start going down this road, because I have very little tolerance from dragging people's real lives into a computer game or a forum. We're all supposed to be adults, so let's show each other some respect.

 

[Helmut Grokenberger]

I think we already established in another thread that there are no adults around here .

 

[WhiteHaulerMan]

Yes and people have contacted the Police to get in touch with Frontier about my abusive actions, all because they got a warning on a forum, that I didn't even do.

Lots of people have issues that make them unable to successfully disassociate one thing from another, and have a sense of perspective. There are literally hundreds of stories that could be told by all "sides".


So to all of you let's not start going down this road, because I have very little tolerance from dragging people's real lives into a computer game or a forum. We're all supposed to be adults, so let's show each other some respect.

Firstly, thats not on and I'm sorry you went through that.

Secondly, the point of my post wasn't '-for-tat-ing', more underlining the reason why as RebelYell asserts, many PvP type players won't post or engage on this forum anymore.

 

[Helmut Grokenberger]

I think folk forget (or disregard) exactly how bad PvPists sometimes got treated in a out of game context back in the games heyday in a real world context by elements of the 'friendly' PvE community.

Having to explain to my employer why our server crash due to an DDOS email spam attack that referred to myself as a terrorist (for 'UA Bombing') after the tacitly approved name and shaming thread got put up on these forums was not a particularly good time.

Never mind the drama surrounding the Paliative care nurse who flew with SDC, the borderline stalking that went on to uncover folks real names, or the self employed chap who's customers received flurries of 'Do you want to really do Business with someone who does stuff like this in a game?' type emails.

I don't care. I wasn't around at that time, and most CMDRs who are the source of griefing complains today weren't either, I'd bet. No whataboutism is justification to kill starter Sidewinders at Chamberlain's Rest.

 

[Jockey79]

I think folk forget (or disregard) exactly how bad PvPists sometimes got treated in a out of game context back in the games heyday in a real world context by elements of the 'friendly' PvE community.

Having to explain to my employer why our server crash due to an DDOS email spam attack that referred to myself as a terrorist (for 'UA Bombing') after the tacitly approved name and shaming thread got put up on these forums was not a particularly good time.

Never mind the drama surrounding the Paliative care nurse who flew with SDC, the borderline stalking that went on to uncover folks real names, or the self employed chap who's customers received flurries of 'Do you want to really do Business with someone who does stuff like this in a game?' type emails.

Yikes, I didn't that was going on. I'm sorry to see that happened to you and everyone else who's had an issue.

I hope you engaged the services of your local constabulary and they fully followed it up. Because behaviour like that deserves nothing short of an extended stay at his majesty's pleasure along with a free check-up with a registered mental health professional.

People really need to learn to take regular breaks and detach from the games they play.
I always recommend people have 3 to 4 games to cycle, so when one gets too stressful they just hop to another one and decompress.

 

[WhiteHaulerMan]

I don't care. I wasn't around at that time, and most CMDRs who are the source of griefing complains today weren't either, I'd bet. No whataboutism is justification to kill starter Sidewinders at Chamberlain's Rest.

Please highlight where my post advocated seal clubbing starter sidewinders

 

[Helmut Grokenberger]

Please highlight where my post advocated seal clubbing starter sidewinders

It didn't. But today seal clubbers are at the center of why "PvPers" have such a bad reputaion here. Not whatever who did what in the past.

 

[Rebel Yell]

This is a hot topic, so I am going to touch it only very lightly. While calling griefers and gankers sociopaths and the like might be a touch too much, one might call it very obvious that it's a personality treat when someone does not care if they cause another player grief (this is amplified of course by the anonymity of online gaming). In real life I would not want to play with someone like that, and if they were my friends I would call them out for it. And I do so in this game, too. It is simply an illusion that online behavior is completely decoupled from your "real" personality.

Remember the infamous interview on the Pilot's channel with the ganker that shall not be named? I have interacted with that ganker (outside ganking context), I have even played with them on occasion, and while he seems a nice dude in general and is probably nice and easy to hang out with IRL - or in-game if you're part of his in-group - , he came across as a total douchebag in that interview and it didn't help the poor misunderstood ganker's cause. And that was his own personality in that interview, not his "online avatar". And yes, I would also tell him that to his face. I might even have done that already.

may be it was all RP, who knows... then one doesn't mean "all".

Some people tend to either forget or deliberately ignore that what you find funny amongst your posse might not be so funny for a stranger.

It isn't rreally elevant from an absolute point of view... I mean, from the above the sum of fun / no-fun is infact zero (how many games, like FPS, are designed as such?).

First, a flaw in the game is no excuse for crappy behavior, and second, you might be shooting pixels, but you are playing with other people. Do as you like, blaze your own trail and all that, but stop crying when others don't want to play with you.

The game is full of flaws which have led players to adopt "crappy behaviors" (IMHO like AFK massacre farming) and oooookay it's play with other people but it's anyway pixels, no one is being harmed, it's all part of the game and what happens in the game, stays in the game. Isn't me who is crying here, if some one doesn't want to play with me it a her/his problem.

Also, I have to add to that. I hate that "it's only pixels" argument. It is so fake and dishonest. You can dismiss any complaint with "it's only <X>, dude!".

I keep scratching my head, but can't find how it could be fake/dishonest, neither why one's should complain beyond a "I've lost the game!" exclamation (acceptable).

When you go to the beach and your kids build a sandcastle, and some brats come along and stomp it down, it is atill an ass move and causes grief, even if the sandcastle would have been destroyed with the next flood anyway. "it's just sand lol" is just not a valid argument when your kids are crying because some parents didn't teach theirs to not behave like cavemen.

I have kids, one (the girl) plays Elite... and she didn't destroy castles on the beach, but she likes to play Elite as a space pirate and bring kabooms in the game

 

[Helmut Grokenberger]

Yeah the old "it's all RP" strawman. Sorry not buying it.

 

[Jockey79]

Yes and people have contacted the Police to get in touch with Frontier about my abusive actions, all because they got a warning on a forum, that I didn't even do.

I honestly have no idea how to react to this. That's just weird.

For a start, Mod warnings don't even have a name attached to them.
It just says "Frontier Moderation Team" - so how did anyone ever come to the conclusion to blame you?

Mind you, if you keep calling us "adults" you won't make any friends

 

[Riverside]

Yeah the old "it's all RP" strawman. Sorry not buying it.

Can you offer any evidence to back up that assertion?

A story that sticks in my mind from chatting with a 'griefer' about motivation was a Police Officer who spent their days helping victims & found shooting newbies cathartic. Who are we to argue their motivation?

 

[Bigmaec]

I think we already established in another thread that there are no adults around here .

No adults, only eagles around, by the amount of hotel california still going on

 

[Helmut Grokenberger]

Can you offer any evidence to back up that assetion?

I don't need to. I am not buying it and that is it. You can claim it is RP, but that doesn't mean I have to believe it. I have seen people RP in game, and usually they are very keen to let other players system wide know they do. Those who use "it's all RP" as a fig leave for their in-game actions usually only claim that here, on reddit or in their discords when they are being called out.

A story that sticks in my mind from chatting with a 'griefer' about motivation was a Police Officer who spent their days helping victims & found shooting newbies cathartic. Who are we to argue their motivation?

Cool story. I would still question if those in-game action are the right means to compensate for his job experiences. Spoiler alert: I don't think so. In fact I think it's very unhealthy. Now, that might not mean anything to them coming from me, but I don't care. I will still say it.

 

[Helmut Grokenberger]

No adults, only eagles around, by the amount of hotel california still going on

You probably have no idea what amount of Hotel California you missed while you were in hibernation . You sure you want to witness it all over again?