Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
Which unfortunately comes across as "unless PvP is delivered on a plate, some players will revert to ganking".
The Open v Solo v Groups thread
- Thread starter Ozric
- Start date
No, it means players have no other choice but to go where the majority of other players are, regardless of tactical considerations.
Not all of them will gank there though, some will kill powerplay opponents, some will bounty hunt, some will counter-gank, some will pirate... but it shouldn't be confined to these places. Its poor game design.
FDEV added pvp to the game, they should support it adequately. Not just let it exist in the background.
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
PvP exists because players can choose to shoot at anything, including players, that they instance with - however they also let players choose who they instance with.
PvP was not so much added as not prevented - however no-one needs to engage in it as part of any in-game feature.
Which an underminer is invariably going to avoid, so you're setting contradictory conditions for yourself.
PvP wasn't added by accident, Sandro talking in that early Powerplay livestream confirms this (please don't make me have to link it yet again).
Who's suggesting PvP be made mandatory here either? Have you even read my Powerplay PvP mission proposal? It basically solves all the PvP problems in the game without affecting PvE players in any way.
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
It seems that some in Frontier expected it to be more popular than it turned out to be - having sold a game to all players with no requirement to engage in PvP (so it has attracted players with little or no interest in PvP).
Players can already engage in PvP - that they can't seem to find each other without organisation may suggest that there aren't that many of them.
Not sure that there would be sufficient interest in PvP missions to provide both sides of the mission at the same time - it'd likely be better than nothing though.
I've already solved the problem... its linked numerous times in this thread including recent replies to Robert.
How are you measuring popularity? There's discord servers full of pvp enthusiasts, thousands of players who talk like 'I would come back if [insert X PvP feature] was added.
The issues with PvP in this game are down to design shortcomings and participation friction, not interest levels.
Baselessly asserting that it's not popular without any evidence is pretty Z tier debating Robert
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
The apparent measure of popularity was taken from these posts:How are you measuring popularity? There's discord servers full of pvp enthusiasts, thousands of players who talk like 'I would come back if [insert X PvP feature] was added.
The issues with PvP in this game are down to design shortcomings and participation friction, not interest levels.
Baselessly asserting that it's not popular without any evidence is pretty Z tier debating Robert
i.e. those seeking PvP don't have their own places to go so go to where they know that they will find others (many of them likely uninterested in PvP). Put differently, if it was popular then players would be able to find other PvPers to engage.
How though? How do you find powerplay opponents using in-game tools and features? I'll wait...
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
True. Given the lack of an in-game tool, possibly by visiting all of the systems of ones power and looking for any opponents.
So to find an opponent we should have fly around hundreds of systems in a single play session and hope that an opponent happens to be at the same system at the same time as we pass through? What if they're planetside? Have we got to check all the locations too?
This is why pvp players just go to Deciat/Sol/Shin guys, I'm not sure what debate there is here, it's totally obvious that there is an issue accessing organic PvP in this game.
Perhaps thats kind of hint, that Elite is not really a dedicated PVP game. Whole setting is kind of hostile towards dedicated PVP. Either one needs to stick to known hotspots, or needs CG put up by devs, or organize something by themselves.
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
Hence the previous response:
Put differently, the game area is huge, even in a single system, and not all possible opponents can be instanced with (not least due to their choice of game mode) - and Powerplay 2.0 does not seem to have been designed to offer hotspots in the way that would be necessary for PvPers to find a regular supply thereof - which may not have been either inadvertent or accidental.
In game design though, problems require solutions. A solution exists (pvp missions) and it's not even a particularly large piece of development compared to other features and IMO it would totally ignite Powerplay 2 which is already starting to feel stale to a lot of players.
Otherwise you're saying 'if you don't like it, don't play it' which you could also say to any other subgroup of players who desire improvements to their preferred gameplay area.
Just because something is currently a certain way doesn't mean it should stay that way if its not working very well.
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There are huge numbers of PvE players who choose not to participate in PvP ( see Mobius private groups not one but a few due to the maximum amount of members being maxed out ) .
The issue is that we don't have accurate numbers for either side. And that's not to say that Mobius players always play in PG and history has shown that PvP groups don't always use "Open" .
The issue isn't that people are playing in PG Solo and "Open" it's the actual instancing of those people who are in "Open" that's the issue. Open isn't the be all and end all it's an instance. PG just let you instance with friends or a group of people of choice PvP or PvE . Solo is an instance where it's PvE . Open is dependent on your connection and depending on timezone and IP which you allow someone in your instance .
The issue is that we don't have accurate numbers for either side. And that's not to say that Mobius players always play in PG and history has shown that PvP groups don't always use "Open" .
The issue isn't that people are playing in PG Solo and "Open" it's the actual instancing of those people who are in "Open" that's the issue. Open isn't the be all and end all it's an instance. PG just let you instance with friends or a group of people of choice PvP or PvE . Solo is an instance where it's PvE . Open is dependent on your connection and depending on timezone and IP which you allow someone in your instance .
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Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
Which is effectively what Open only proponents have been telling players who don't enjoy PvP to accept when they propose PvP-gating affecting any game feature to Open.
Well that's clearly not the intention is it;
PvP is meant to occur within the context of Powerplay, clearly.
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
.... if players on each side of the engagement choose to....
