The Open v Solo v Groups thread

[Lateralus]

I feel like we already had the very same discussion not too long ago.


It's the same for PvE players that want to play together or have events. It's not a bane exclusive to PvP players, yet they moan about it all the time. PvE players have to go through that all the time too.

PvE doesn't require anyone else, that's the difference. You can do 'distant worlds' whenever you choose.

 

[Helmut Grokenberger]

PvE doesn't require anyone else, that's the difference. You can do 'distant worlds' whenever you choose.

That's a lame argument. People want to play together even if they don't shoot at each other.

 

[Lateralus]

That's a lame argument. People want to play together even if they don't shoot at each other.

It's not a lame argument, other players are fundamental to PvP happening. For PvE it is not, its just a 'nice to have'.

 

[Darrack]

I'd argue it's not about choice, but about improving what we have.

Murderhobos killing sidewinders at Deciat can't be good design, right?

What we have doesn't need improving, its only the gankers complaining about the lack of targets or some PPers complaining without any justification that they cant see other players doing PP.

For most of us the status quo is still rocking.

O7

 

[Darrack]

They require coordination between lots of players, who all must be available at certain times, so do not suit people with busy schedules, kids etc who just want to log on whenever they can for some PvP.

Can i point players to DW3, a massive undertaking for a PVE event, if one community can do it, why not another?

O7

 

[Lateralus]

Can i point players to DW3, a massive undertaking for a PVE event, if one community can do it, why not another?

O7

That happens like once every 5-6 years, and PvP events work differently. You must be available at certain specific time slots for a match... Like I said in my larger post, these events do not suit everyone. My mission concept would cater to everyone, not just those who are available on a Saturday afternoon at 5pm (example).

 

[ethelred]

What we have doesn't need improving, its only the gankers complaining about the lack of targets or some PPers complaining without any justification that they cant see other players doing PP.

For most of us the status quo is still rocking.

O7

Gankers don't have a lack of targets in the game - you can see this by the consistency of Deciat being one of the least secure systems.

To characterise those that enjoy PvP being of only 2 groups is an obvious nonsense.

You may as well reply to every message suggesting anything that could be altered in the game with your last line.

Do you honestly believe this game cannot be improved? I can't believe that

 

[Lateralus]

What we have doesn't need improving, its only the gankers complaining about the lack of targets or some PPers complaining without any justification that they cant see other players doing PP.

For most of us the status quo is still rocking.

O7

I'm a PvPer and former PvP pirate, but I don't gank as it's not particularly interesting to me. My case has all been about how difficult it is to find powerplay driven pvp in the game still even after PP2.

The status quo is great if you're a private group/ solo PvE player or a ganker. But its not so great for those of us who want proper, objective driven PvP.

 

[Robert Maynard]

It's naive to think that any change will happen, not to want to change it, surely?

It would be naive to expect that those who default to ganking every time they get bored would stop doing so completely if something PvP oriented were added to the game.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Like it or not the Space Pirate is a massive meme, I think if FDEV were honest then their inexperience with Open world games led them to make design decisions that perhaps others wouldn't have. Sir Braben's dream of meaningful PvP in the video for example.

IMHO there should have been a career path for Space Vandal with requisite penalties/rewards possibly even an "it's a fair cop, guv" mechanic that mitigates the inconvenience of CMDR on CMDR piracy without leaving a sour taste (idealist thinking I know). Or flagging, or something.

While Space Pirate may be a massive meme, it's an acquired taste on the part of the targets.

That Frontier chose not to increase the "in danger" menu exit time when it was pointed out that the ability to menu exit broke PvP piracy may be looked on as inexperience, however, given that Frontier introduced the block feature unasked and before launch, only improving its effectiveness and making it easier to use over the years, it seems that they had a pretty good idea before the game launched of how some players would choose to behave, and chose to implement ways for players not to have to play with them.

 

[Lateralus]

It would be naive to expect that those who default to ganking every time they get bored would stop doing so completely if something PvP oriented were added to the game.

The number of them would reduce. Ganking in deciat dropped to nothing when PP2 launched as rare goods hubs became powerplay hotspots. Then FDEV killed that and it returned to normal.

Thats clear evidence that those places are gank hotspots due to poor game design. Not because pvp players are inherently bad or some other silly narrative.

 

[Gwynfor]

My case has all been about how difficult it is to find powerplay driven pvp in the game still even after PP2.

There is an easy solution: close Open (sounds great ;-)) and the PvP player can create their own private group where attacking others is encouraged. If so many are eager to fight honestly it shouldn't be a problem...

 

[Robert Maynard]

The number of them would reduce.

Maybe.

Not because pvp players are inherently bad or some other silly narrative.

Some players who choose to engage other players in PvP have demonstrated to those players that they are not fun to play among.

 

[Lateralus]

Maybe.

Some players who choose to engage other players in PvP have demonstrated to those players that they are not fun to play among.

As me and Ethelred have said, lack of gank targets isn't the issue here, it never was (the top ganker in the game has 30,000+ player kills as an example).

Lack of meaningful, objective driven pvp against prepared opponents is the problem, because the game's mechanics do not adequately facilitate it within the scope of powerplay as it should.

 

[Frankymole]

• Kumo tried a weekly 'carrier raid' event where they would tip off an enemy power in advance to try and encourage opposition pvp... But this relied of discord communication to be effective, and it worked to an extent (1 wing would usually show up), but an in game system would be far more effective in raising opposition numbers (hence the mission idea as it would be universally available and offer in game rewards).

FDev would probably point to the "in game system" they made for players to fight each other in space combat... CQC / Arena...

 

[Darrack]

As me and Ethelred have said, lack of gank targets isn't the issue here, it never was (the top ganker in the game has 30,000+ player kills as an example).

Lack of meaningful, objective driven pvp against prepared opponents is the problem, because the game's mechanics do not adequately facilitate it within the scope of powerplay as it should.

The issue is you just don't have enough folks who want to do PvP, if you did Open would be full of folks battling each other in PP2.

O7

 

[TiberiusDuval]

Like it or not the Space Pirate is a massive meme, I think if FDEV were honest then their inexperience with Open world games led them to make design decisions that perhaps others wouldn't have. Sir Braben's dream of meaningful PvP in the video for example.

Pirate? What is that? I have only seen space terrorists or psycho killers. Nobody has ever tried to pirate anything from me.

 

[TiberiusDuval]

As me and Ethelred have said, lack of gank targets isn't the issue here, it never was (the top ganker in the game has 30,000+ player kills as an example).

Lack of meaningful, objective driven pvp against prepared opponents is the problem, because the game's mechanics do not adequately facilitate it within the scope of powerplay as it should.

Prepared opponent means long and tedious slugfest typically ending when said opponent wakes out. Or do you hope for paperthin haulers?

 

[ethelred]

Pirate? What is that? I have only seen space terrorists or psycho killers. Nobody has ever tried to pirate anything from me.

Clearly you hang around with the wrong people

 

[ethelred]

Prepared opponent means long and tedious slugfest typically ending when said opponent wakes out. Or do you hope for paperthin haulers?

If I fly a hauler against prepared opponents yet I get through, who is the better pilot?