The Open v Solo v Groups thread

[Darrack]

But that's not how it's intended. Your simply sticking to your guns.

Fact is the dc is a pvp orientated add on.
That's a fact
They did it cos that's where the money Is. Frontier did that not you nor l. They see the game dying in its current format. Hence their huge effort to encourage pvpers in.

I agree with you on a lot of things mate but i don't see Ody as PvP orientated at all, it certainly was never advertised or promoted as that.
The CZs are basically an add on to foot missions.
I doubt anyone who is really into PvP would ever consider Elite as a place to live, there's far more challenging games for that, unless of course your clubbing or feel good attacking poorly armed trade ships.

O7

 

[Dragsham]

I hear you.
But my post relates to frontiers mindset not ours.
Odyssey is clearly aimed at the pewpew community.
It's obvious!
The huge disappointment when odyssey released..1000s left cos it wasn't what they wanted...hell it wasn't what l wanted.
I wanted exploratory odyssey hence its name....odyssey.
But like I said before. That's not how frontier saw it.
They went for the pewpew brigade cos that's where the money was.

 

[terragrimtitan]

Open PVE mode would solve it all, see you there mate

O7

I know it isnt a mode but I think a PG like mobius kinda of covers this?
What might be different is if there was an Open mode where PVP only occurs in designated spots like CZs, Anarchy Systems. or Crimes off?

 

[Brrokk]

I agree with you on a lot of things mate but i don't see Ody as PvP orientated at all, it certainly was never advertised or promoted as that.
The CZs are basically an add on to foot missions.
I doubt anyone who is really into PvP would ever consider Elite as a place to live, there's far more challenging games for that, unless of course your clubbing or feel good attacking poorly armed trade ships.

O7

I guess everyone can pick and choose. I've done a lot of exobiology on foot and enjoyed it ("taxonomist"). I'm yet to wear the combat suit outside my ship or fire a rifle shot though. I suspect I never will.

 

[TobiasFuzz]

I hear you.
But my post relates to frontiers mindset not ours.
Odyssey is clearly aimed at the pewpew community.
It's obvious!
The huge disappointment when odyssey released..1000s left cos it wasn't what they wanted...hell it wasn't what l wanted.
I wanted exploratory odyssey hence its name....odyssey.
But like I said before. That's not how frontier saw it.
They went for the pewpew brigade cos that's where the money was.

To aim something to the "pewpew" community does not mean that this is for PvP. I can enjoy all the ody pewpew stuff without any player opponents.

 

[Darrack]

I guess everyone can pick and choose. I've done a lot of exobiology on foot and enjoyed it ("taxonomist"). I'm yet to wear the combat suit outside my ship or fire a rifle shot though. I suspect I never will.

Cant fault you on that as im not a fan of FPS .... But i found the scavenger and reactivate missions a lot of fun and still do.
The infiltration jobbys are also a blast.

O7

 

[Felix DiCestria]

This is a good summation of your perspective. One which ignores the needs on anyone else other than yourself (some would say selfish). One which is very intro spective to the extreme of I don't like X so X should never exist. And one which offers little if any room to compromise or agree on any form of middle ground.

I appreciate my discussions in the thread in the past, but I have little desire to attempt providing or offering solutions to a group that has such hardline stances.

Best of luck, likely won't ever see you in the black due to your preferences.

 

[ethelred]

Anything new to comment on?

 

[Darrack]

Anything new to comment on?

I think everyone is taking a breather

O7

 

[Brrokk]

Anything new to comment on?

No. That's the good thing about keeping all this in one thread though. The repetition is much clearer.

 

[Felix DiCestria]

I suppose it's the moment to post this;

 

[Darrack]

I suppose it's the moment to post this;

When i was younger i was never one of those long haired rockers that put on tights and high heals for a laugh at the local showing of Rocky Horror

Spoiler: Nope never

Thank the gods there were no camera phones back then

O7

 

[Marvin the Martian]

Odyssey is clearly aimed at the pewpew community.
It's obvious!

With exploration expansion and the addition of exobiology being one of the major selling points, both of which are entirely solo fields of endeavor, I'd say you're completely wrong.

On foot CZ's are an addition for variety's sake and a bit of expansion in the PvP world that already existed in Horizons and nothing more.

 

[zikolach]

Regarding security rating of the systems - I understand that from PvP aspect it might be hard to implement a system where paper-thin-armored (optimized for the specific activity) traders or explorers would feel confident traversing even high security system.

Wouldn't it be appropriate solution to adjust the rules in a way that if such a pilot is destroyed in high security system - its ship and e.g. 100% of cargo are covered by insurance from system authorities and are given to the pilot back? So it would look like if you are being interdicted by pirate in high sec, destroyed in a matter of seconds, security armed forces are dropped to push attacker out and you get back to the closest station on your route (or even your destination if that's the system you were killed in) with your ship loaded with your cargo.

The same would apply to the exploration data and your bounties. Lore-wise search and rescue would work to bring everything back to you and that the system have a load of sensors to detect and "backup" your ship computer encrypted data.

The only condition would be a requirement not to have wanted status in the system and have "report crimes against me" enabled. It would also not apply to powerplay cargo.

For medium security it would mean ~50%+ or your cargo, exploration data and bounties to be returned back and only part of the normal rebuy cost is covered.

For low security and anarchy systems it would work as now.

 

[Darrack]

Regarding security rating of the systems - I understand that from PvP aspect it might be hard to implement a system where paper-thin-armored (optimized for the specific activity) traders or explorers would feel confident traversing even high security system.

Wouldn't it be appropriate solution to adjust the rules in a way that if such a pilot is destroyed in high security system - its ship and e.g. 100% of cargo are covered by insurance from system authorities and are given to the pilot back? So it would look like if you are being interdicted by pirate in high sec, destroyed in a matter of seconds, security armed forces are dropped to push attacker out and you get back to the closest station on your route (or even your destination if that's the system you were killed in) with your ship loaded with your cargo.

The same would apply to the exploration data and your bounties. Lore-wise search and rescue would work to bring everything back to you and that the system have a load of sensors to detect and "backup" your ship computer encrypted data.

The only condition would be a requirement not to have wanted status in the system and have "report crimes against me" enabled. It would also not apply to powerplay cargo.

For medium security it would mean ~50%+ or your cargo, exploration data and bounties to be returned back and only part of the normal rebuy cost is covered.

For low security and anarchy systems it would work as now.

All good ideas, however most folks don't want to have to deal with gankers to start with hence nowt will really pull folks to Open.
Dealing with NPCs is fine but engineered overpowered murder boats is just not balanced to reasonable game play.

O7

 

[Helmut Grokenberger]

most folks don't want to have to deal with gankers to start with

And that is the point. You can deal with gankers, but it costs time and effort that are better spent elsewhere.

Storytime: I have been "playing" with gankers the last two days. I have had some networking and instancing issues recently that I think I got fixed, and to test that I decided to visit busy places in open to see how good or bad instancing works for me.

I slapped together a somewhat gank-proof ship (it is actually meant as a kind of armed bubble explorer, and it is more RP than anything, but it suits this purpose just fine) - a more or less fully engineered Phantom filled with shield boosters and HRPs, but it also carries a big fuel scoop and a FSD booster, and also a SRV bay and a DSS. For giggles I also put my Salvation Plasma Chargers on it, but it isn't really meant for fighting. It jumps 40-something, with pips to 4-2-0 it has 4000 shields and 2.200 armour and still permaboosts to 591. So I would say it is somewhat gank proof. On the down side it is useless as an explorer, because it lacks quite some equipment. In the end it is only good for one thing: Evading ganks (for those interested: This is the build).

So I exposed myself to the possibility of being ganked by going to Shinrarta in open. As is to be predicted, the usual known ganker figures always hung around the main star. They never seem to sleep. Trying to reach Jameson is like running a gauntlet. I got interdicted a few times and so far always got away... but what is the point? It is not fun. The first times were kind of exciting because I didn't really know if the ship would hold and if I could outrun an FDL, and also because I had never been interdicted by a player before and have no practice running from gankers. But it gets old fast. I don't intend to fight, and if I don't put a huge effort into the safety mechanisms of my ship I'd as well not play, at least not in that place. In the end, I cannot go where I want to unless I leave open.

To build this ship didn't take me alot. I had most of the parts in stock, I had to engineer the armour and one or two HRPs. But I have been playing for somewhat long and have good resources. A newish player doesn't. Now you can pull the standard argument "ShinDez requires Elite and thus the player isn't new", but let's face it - Elite in trading or exploration is no big feat these days. And places like ShinDez and Sol are practically new-player-magnets. And the other one, "don't go to popular places in open" is equally idiotic. Might as well not have open then.

There, I dare say it: These guys are total idiots. If they want the "challenge from a human player" as they claim, why don't they gank each other. I have no intention to entertain those tossers, so I avoid open.

Maybe I should offer a service... ganker distraction. Slap an interdictor on my speed courier, keep interdicting the gankers and then buzz off. See how they like it when their gameplay is ruined .

 

[TobiasFuzz]

Maybe I should offer a service... ganker distraction. Slap an interdictor on my speed courier, keep interdicting the gankers and then buzz off. See how they like it when their gameplay is ruined .

That doesn't work. You will be blocked by them after your first run.

 

[Helmut Grokenberger]

yeah I know. A man can still dream.

 

[Riverside]

If they want the "challenge from a human player" as they claim, why don't they gank each other.

They do.

 

[SteveWW57]

All good ideas, however most folks don't want to have to deal with gankers to start with hence nowt will really pull folks to Open.
Dealing with NPCs is fine but engineered overpowered murder boats is just not balanced to reasonable game play.

I believe the argument put forward by some of the PvP groups, is that they are "educating" CMDRs they attack, so that they build their ship to withstand at least for a time any attack, and then make use of that time to escape, and to improve their combat and playing skills. In other words, "git gud".

Their view that any CMDR flying in open in a ship not designed to survive at least a little while, by CMDRs who do not have the appropriate skills to evade and/or escape or to effectively fight back, deserve to be attacked and destroyed for any or no reason at all.

Steve