And that's opinion vs opinion, or rather guess vs guess. We'll never know until it happens. But for that it's way too late. It should have been tested way back at the beginning of Elite. That's why this topic still going on is ridiculous. Nobody will ever get what they're asking for.
The Open v Solo v Groups thread
- Thread starter Ozric
- Start date
Considering how people complain about NPC INTERDICTIONS and their difficultiness perhaps there ARE risks involved, even if PVP edgelords on their g5 murderboats consider those risks non-existent.
The same handful of cmdrs have been attacking CG participants for years. They have never achieved anything and never will (beyond getting themselves added to blocklists) Attacking cmdrs in the CG system is utterly meaningless and a waste of time for all involved. During the recent Azimuth CG OWH demonstrated how to effectively oppose a CG, forcing haulers to switch commodities to maintain delivery rate. This was of course completely lost on the campers.
But my only tool is a hammer why you insist on using socket wrench when all I want is to HAMMER IT?
The figures do not lie, and they have been published, probably several times, in this forum.
IIRC, in a month only about 7% of players engaged in PvP.
The PvPers have an open mode where they can engage in their jollies against non PvPers who only want to have a good co-operative time in open.
Steve
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
We only "all know the game would be better off in Open Only!" if the opinions of some of us are disregarded in favour of the opinions of some of the rest of us. Not all players enjoy PvP, or the possibility of PvP, in a game where PvP itself is an optional extra (and has been from the outset).Oh boy... This topic is still a thing? Years of back and forth and ppl are still going on about Open vs other modes?
Just remove solo and groups already, we all know the game would be better off in Open Only!
Fairly sure that the Devs are aware of the feelings of a subset of the player-base - however the game is for all of the player-base, not just a subset that wants to tell other players how to play.
Of course, EVERYONE knows it is better for all uf us if we were forced into the same game mode
. See this is exactly what I meant with the quoted posting a few days ago, this smug-pretend knowing better than everyone else.
PvP in BGS or PP is an utter waste of time, this is brought up millions of times as an excuse for Open only.
Ive made many posts as to why and i would have no objection to BGS or PP being Open only as you wouldn't be able to stop a thing i was doing, its the very definition of a red herring.
All that would happen is muppets would camp minor powers home systems to stop fortification and CG griefing would rise, that's why most wont do these activities outside of Solo/PG.
Rememeber most of you here have good intentions and want to improve interactive gameplay, sadly in my experience the vast majority in Open just want to be idiots.
BTW welcome to page 50
O7
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There are about 10 people including you that think NPC interdictions create any difficulty. I know someone who went AFK and came back to find his ship beating an NPC interdiction. It's not a criticism, it's just a small minority that can carry no weight in influencing the game. What is true is that FDev set NPC difficulty based on a picture they have of the player base. Although I think that picture is a dated one based in times before engineering was available to all (and relatively easy, particularly with tech broker CG stuff), and before credits came out of the tap in every kitchen.
Cheapskate
PvP in BGS brings fun, more fun than effectiveness (on some extent this is mostly depending on the tz/platform&game version/play style of the factions involved)... bit different for PP as there are other factors to consider (first of all the 5C) and the effective hindrance to PP mechanics when forts/merits are slowed/lost due to blockades or engagements.
I've debunked the use of these figures in this way a number of times*. The reason is that not being involved in player interdiction or ship destruction in the last 30 days is in no way an indication of a lack of interest in or tolerance of PvP. It can equally be a result of there being many things to do in the game, and these days, a highly split player base across modes, platforms and versions. Case in point I've gone 30 days without such incidents enough times, even in periods that include times when looking for PvP.
The figures don't lie, they just don't say anything strong about people's preferences for the thing in question - sure they indicate there aren't a majority that are hardcore PvPers, but the same can be said of any discipline in ED (except that for all of the others, you don't even need other players). Equally, you could go 30 days without doing any of those other activities, even though they may be your favourite. The way these figures have been framed so far is pretty dishonest and brings the "anti-PvP" side of the debate into disrepute. I suggest you question your reliance on them to make any substantive point beyond "most people don't specialise".
*
Why do people still care at all about clogging?
ALT-F4 kills a process. Shutdown also kills all processes. It seems, to me at least, that shutting the PC down while the game is running is an "ALT-F4 type procedure", just not limited to the game. But it polls all the running processes and gives them a chance to tidy up. Alt-F4 doesn't do that.
Why do people still care at all about clogging?
No- if FD choose to keep PP as it is, the easiest way is to give Open a bonus for the danger, and menu logging under a timer results in your held merits or PP cargo being removed (which would be indicated on the menu UI). nope. If you cannot kill the PP player within the menu logout timer, they...
Open Play experience just blows…
Hihi... you made me update the game. I don't know if I can still fly, let's see how good my muscle memory is :sneaky: This time no block I was actively seeking a fight. :)
Open Play experience just blows…
... Threat levels being useless is a different issue. I can see why players complain when a threat 5 doesn't spawn a single enemy when a threat 1 can give you waves totaling 50+ enemies. ... Stuff is so inconsistent in this game, it just makes no sense. And it adds to frustrating experience...
NPC's don't create difficulty for me. I either submit and destroy NPC's. Or submit and let them scan me and be on my way. G5 safety boat makes them pretty easy. That btw. is reason why I did that grind. I hate seeing rebuy screen, and more unbalanced favoring me NPC encounter is, better.
But it seems pretty hard for some players to understand, that there are many people who do not play this game as bang bang pew pew shooter. And who do not care about that part of it. And for whom that added "challenge" is just unnecessary hurdle.
I understand, most probably do. But if one is engaging with the game in a way that one considers fun, one will extol it's virtues & encourage others to try.
Particularly if people give reasons for not doing it that are able to be overcome fairly easily.
Playing in Open is entirely optional, as is any direct interaction with other players other than the BGS. So if someone (even a lurker) has the view that they would like to meet more people in the game but X, Y, Z, then those that already found ways to overcome those hurdles will offer their tips in the hope that more will be willing to add more interaction (positive and negative, you gotta be prepared for both in Open).
If someone is happy where they are (in a PvE group, or solo or whatever) then the hotel california style topics are only relevant if someone proposes removing features from groups & solo. I would play an open only game now, because I know it's not as scary as it initially appears. I probably wouldn't have bought the game without some way to practice in peace though, so an open only BGS style of game would suit me. I appreciate it wouldn't suit everyone.
From previous conversations I think you & I play in a very similar way, it's just that I play in Open. You could too if you wanted to, and meet benign players like me (and others that fear you, and yet others that are openly hostile to you). You don't have to, and you shouldn't be forced to but imo you are missing out, particularly as an experienced player who no longer finds NPCs all that challenging. Other players provide much more opportunity for interaction than NPCs.
I do play in Open, but do not play Open only. It greatly depends if I want to give some players opportunity to hinder my business.
Certain Open players do not give much more than NPC's, just that they are harder to win.
I could describe my approach to the game the same way.
On the occasions I am not in open I am very aware of how much less complicated my strategy can be.
But those occasions when I am considering switching to solo but don't, I am usually surprised at how little of my contingency planning tree I actually need.
I play paranoid, I plan ahead. So much more can happen in open, but usually doesn't.
As time has gone on I use solo less & less, and gave up my mobius membership (to free it up for someone in more need of it) years ago because when you know that other Cmdr isn't a potential threat it just gets boring for me.
I don't need to be able to fight some faction in Pg/solo though, I want to meet the people I am crossing paths with so I can find out about them & make them aware of me & 'my' territory, and hopefully how their faction & mine can coexist.
Over the years I've met far more arrogant & selfish cmdrs BGSing than via direct PvP.
I would like to hear more about this. What activities are they doing and how does it impact you?
Steve
Stalking, thought quiz cool. Took, not shocked lol.
73% Killer
60% Achiever
53% Socializer
13% Explorer
Exploration is lame anyways.
73% Killer
60% Achiever
53% Socializer
13% Explorer
Exploration is lame anyways.
Large, expansionist factions treading on smaller ones. I've talked about it in this thread and others before, it's a lot harder to stomp on the little guy when you have actually met them, and easy to overlook the carnage if you never meet anyone outside your own clique.
Wow, 50 pages.
PVP is the red-headed stepchild of this game. Within the context of the strategic paradigm and mechanics within both Powerplay & BGS, there is no reason to play in open and there is no reason to engage in PVP.
Give Open/PVP real-game roles.
Let's use a system conflict and/or a CG for example...
Space superiority missions; lock this into choosing a side for the conflict, similar to a CG:
Interdict & Intercept missions.
Blockade running missions.
Assault defending forces.
Escort missions: Escort player transports, and/or players running conflict-related missions.
Blockade Missions: Opposite of ^
Just the act of flying CAPS (Combat Air Patrol but in this case SPACE) buffs the security of the system. More dynamic and challenging AI forces that respond and assist accordingly.
etc..
Adjust the risk/reward accordingly. Open up the diminishing returns and buff the BGS/PP impact accordingly, as well as the player money/mats,rep; make it worth the effort.
Piracy... don't get me started, so much FUN could be built into this game...
Nevertheless, ganking isn't a problem if you build correctly and have practiced the basic evasion techniques. It is not hard to evade a solo gank if your ships systems are built for the "Dangerous," part of this game.
Make engineering systems no-fire zones.
Buff new cmdr's defensively until they hit a certain rank.
Seal clubbing is stupid.
Punish tf out of ganks C&P wise. If there's no associated conflict then it's just a murder.
PVP is the red-headed stepchild of this game. Within the context of the strategic paradigm and mechanics within both Powerplay & BGS, there is no reason to play in open and there is no reason to engage in PVP.
Give Open/PVP real-game roles.
Let's use a system conflict and/or a CG for example...
Space superiority missions; lock this into choosing a side for the conflict, similar to a CG:
Interdict & Intercept missions.
Blockade running missions.
Assault defending forces.
Escort missions: Escort player transports, and/or players running conflict-related missions.
Blockade Missions: Opposite of ^
Just the act of flying CAPS (Combat Air Patrol but in this case SPACE) buffs the security of the system. More dynamic and challenging AI forces that respond and assist accordingly.
etc..
Adjust the risk/reward accordingly. Open up the diminishing returns and buff the BGS/PP impact accordingly, as well as the player money/mats,rep; make it worth the effort.
Piracy... don't get me started, so much FUN could be built into this game...
Nevertheless, ganking isn't a problem if you build correctly and have practiced the basic evasion techniques. It is not hard to evade a solo gank if your ships systems are built for the "Dangerous," part of this game.
Make engineering systems no-fire zones.
Buff new cmdr's defensively until they hit a certain rank.
Seal clubbing is stupid.
Punish tf out of ganks C&P wise. If there's no associated conflict then it's just a murder.