As every player should know: PG was specialized designed for PvP groups. There PvPers can compete in a safe and uninterrupted environment. Open is for coop gameplay and (in a lesser quantity) for organic PvP created out of BGS or PP. This is the way!
The Open v Solo v Groups thread
- Thread starter Ozric
- Start date
It depends what you are doing, and whom you fly for. If you were a rival Power pledge that is not a shopper you'd be crisped. However, I'd not automatically hose just anyone, or even interdict people randomly. By the same token I'd treat everyone with caution if I were unarmed, and expect no 'mercy'.
Source is the normal common sense. It seems extremly logical that PG was implemented for PvP. I have never seen any source or mention by a dev, that it was for another purpose.
Surley the Devs had thought about that some people are going to want competitive consensual PvP. PG is perfect for that.
Ganking on the other hand is not a promoted or supported playstyle. Not one mention in all ED documentary about something like "Come to ED! Here you can gank other players!". I have not even found a single mention of the word ganker or ganking. What is FDevs fault for sure is that they forgot (naiv) to implement any mechanic to prevent this.
Edit: Did you ever ask for a source when someone said "If you dont want to be ganked use solo or PG"?
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There is none in Elite unless the Pvpers want to pick a system and go for it.
PvP is only sustainable when there is balance, ganking a ship that has no chance against you is not PvP its just bullying.
If folks were really interested in PvP and not griefing they would have set up player made zones to do it like in other MMOs.
Unless you can supply data (which im sure no one can) PP and the BGS were never designed with PvP in mind.
O7
Once again, the balance is very much in favor of the defender, hit point inflation outpaced dps inflation by quite a margin.
It's just that people don't use this advantage and rather complain later at the forums that their 3D shielded Asp (it's more than a meme nowadays) blew up...
If ganking wasn't an acceptable playstyle, it would be against the rules, cmdrs. But it's not, so regardless of how you feel about it, if a wing wants to 4v1 your Cobra, it's well within the parameters of the game for them to do so. You don't have to like it, but that's the truth.
Thankfully, we have options to deal with this sort of thing.
1. Alternative modes. Yes, the 100% reliable method of playing with only people you like, who you even get to hand pick-- Private Group. 99% safe space so long as you don't invite the wrong person. Solo, however lonely, is 100% effective at avoiding ganks and unwanted interactions.
2. Engineering. Often overlooked by people who 'Don't have the time' (1,000+ hours logged). Or 'Don't want to be told how to play' (Complains online, tells other people how they should be able to play). Engineering allows your ship to be, in some cases, twice as fast, and twice as durable. This max-level can be achieved in approximately 24 hours of cumulative play. Thankfully, engineering to a lesser (and sufficient) degree, can be had in much less time.
3. Practice. Evasion in Elite Dangerous is laughably easy, so easy in fact, that even I am able to do it. Combined with the above (See 2. Engineering), you can become virtually un-killable. Now, this is only attainable if you are willing to put forth some mild effort. No one can do it for you. At this point in the game's life, you have all the tools you need already, all of the trial and error has been done for you. But you have to do your part.
Thankfully, we have options to deal with this sort of thing.
1. Alternative modes. Yes, the 100% reliable method of playing with only people you like, who you even get to hand pick-- Private Group. 99% safe space so long as you don't invite the wrong person. Solo, however lonely, is 100% effective at avoiding ganks and unwanted interactions.
2. Engineering. Often overlooked by people who 'Don't have the time' (1,000+ hours logged). Or 'Don't want to be told how to play' (Complains online, tells other people how they should be able to play). Engineering allows your ship to be, in some cases, twice as fast, and twice as durable. This max-level can be achieved in approximately 24 hours of cumulative play. Thankfully, engineering to a lesser (and sufficient) degree, can be had in much less time.
3. Practice. Evasion in Elite Dangerous is laughably easy, so easy in fact, that even I am able to do it. Combined with the above (See 2. Engineering), you can become virtually un-killable. Now, this is only attainable if you are willing to put forth some mild effort. No one can do it for you. At this point in the game's life, you have all the tools you need already, all of the trial and error has been done for you. But you have to do your part.
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Given the armament and the dps that the murder boats can deal out very fast then even A rated shields may not cope. To be relatively safe a lot of hours and engineering may be required. Many do not want this grind. If it is insisted that only fully engineered ships should be in open (to survive), then that is excluding many players.
Steve
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Thanks I really appreciate you expanding on things. I get where you are coming from and I will try and weave a bit of what you are saying into my Open Perspectives article.I have no idea. To be honest it was more the failed attempt of a snide remark on the general tendency of the louder parts of the community to brand open as equivalent to PvP and how this becomes the accepted narrative than criticism of your article. Sorry about that. I can give you the TL;DR of my Elite story though.
My very limited and absolutely biased perspective is that, although I really like the NPC combat ascpect of the game, I don't consider the game a "space combat" game at heart. I love the variety it offers from space trucking to exploration to tinfoil hatting to whatever you can do in space. I have no interest in measuring my combat skills against other CMDRs, mostly because I don't have any, and have no time or interest to "git gud", and don't like competitive gameplay.
I started playing ED a smidge over three years and just shy of 2000 hours ago and spent at least the first half of that exclusively in Solo. I am not that keen on multiplayer games anyway, and like many new players (I would imagine) I was very put off by the ganker stories, the juvenile "git gud" loudmouths and walking meme generators, and the general tendency of said loud parts of the community to mock those who long for an open PvE mode as "carebears" and similar terms. The idiocy and often very foul language (that would make a dock worker blush) of the system chat didn't help.
At some point I began breaking that solo habit, and I began playing in Mobius more and more, which at that time was pretty empty (this has changed a bit since the Azimuth finale, at least for me). I began winging up with strangers at bounty hunting or CZ CGs (combat being the part of the game where winging up with strangers makes the most sense), at first less for the aspect of playing "together" and more for game mechanic reasons (avoid kill stealing and such), but all those encounters were very nice, because we were working on a common goal under an accepted peaceful ruleset that meant that I didn't need to look over my shoulder all the time for someone who isn't interested in the CG or the story, but only in killing my pixel CMDR for the "spaceship go boom". Pretty much all of the players I have met in Mobius so far were nice, well behaved, grown up-acting people. The ganker wings I met in open? Not so much.
I play this game to relax and enjoy the various aspects of space shipping in VR (which is a real treat), not to measure the length of my body parts against other players. I am not a competitive player, I really don't care about that. I also don't need "challenges" in my games to be entertained, or at least I want to be in control how challenging my gameplay is. I just want to enjoy my space game, be it bounty hunting, trucking, exploring, visiting lore sites or just flying around aimlessly. And surprisingly, even though I would characterize myself as a loner, it is more fun if you meet the occasional friendly human instead of just NPCs.
I still do not play in open (apart from regular curiousity experiments), because it is pointless for me. The parts of the game where it is most likely to meet other players are also the ganker and idiot hotspots (I know, shocking surprise). If you go where the other players are, you have to adjust your playstyle to accommodate theirs. Now, the common argument is "don't go there in open if you don't like it" and that silly thing pointing out the name of the game. But then I ask: For a Coop CMDR, what is the point of open if I can't go where the other players are? Yes, my ships are mostly gankproof and I rarely fly paper planes, and I know how to evade a gank. But it is still wasting my time. I would spend my precious game time playing other people's game instead of my own.
This is why I have become a proponent of the open PvE idea, even though I know it will never become a reality - at this point in the game, it is little more than academic discourse. I have the suspicion, though, that open PvP might be a lonely place if there was an open PvE mode.
Well, not so TL;DR. Sorry
(Edited for spelling)
It sounds like you aren't in Open however I know there are a lot of CMDRs in Open who mostly share your perspective with the addition of being open to hostile encounters with other CMDRs. Some of that group of CoOp CMDRs are frustrated like yourself with the single mode players who just want to fight and dont have any rationale to fight them. The fights the Open CoOp CMDRs are intersted in is more role based, like pirating or war
Cmdr, just that something is not mentioned at all in any FDev documentary does not make it acceptable. FDev did forget to preemtive deal with ganking whats very obvious. They were naiv enough to think that in their wonderfull game that offers plenty to do in a reasonable way no one would have the pretty lame idea of ganking others.
I reject your hypothesis
I have a very simple rule:
Your INARA ranking is better then mine --> you know enough about the game and are perhaps worth listening to.
Your INARA ranking is worse then mine --> your opinion depends on too small experience and you should engage with the game aspects more before presenting a not by experience covered advise/opinion/statement (to me).
Questions?
I spare you the embarassement of publicing your ranking compared to mine.
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So, uhh... honest question: what happens if the player in question doesn't use INARA / regularly update their INARA profile via EDMC/etc. but has extensively engaged in many aspects of the game?
Or, they simply don't need it or just play the game.
Other than screenshots I don't care about INARA as Discord does what I need.
If the player is not on INARA (or is not to be identified there) the rule could not be used of course. Luckily most players are on INARA and easy to find.
Edit: I didn't mean it that seriously by the way.
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I have a little over 5,000 hours of time in open. I've done about everything there is to do in the game, aside from some of the recent on-foot stuff, and have been actively playing for six years, PvPing consistently for five, so I'd like to think I have some sort of understanding how the game works. I honestly couldn't tell you how that rank is calculated, how to find it, or how it is an accurate indicator of one's knowledge about the game.
My posts are factual, based on experience, and intended to help people find their way through the chaos that is Elite Dangerous, something I'm fairly good at. Emotionally driven musings on what Fdev allegedly intends, on the other hand, are less than productive, and ultimately unhelpful.
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Inara rank can be deceiving, especially concerning PvP.
(My rank is higher than yours, so you have to believe me
)
Blame FDev for the grind, not the gankers. If you spend hours to build a murder boat, why shouldn't you be allowed to use it?
By the way, gank evasion is a PvP playstyle. I take my unarmed ships to ganker hotspots on purpose. I do missions right on their turf. If ganking was against the rules of the game, it would ruin the fun for me. NPC pirates are not a threat and not a replacement for hostile players coming after you.