The Open v Solo v Groups thread

I found some commentary on one of my old videos of an encounter that's still relevant to this never ending discussion.

Quite a few people at the time considered my CMDR the 'ganker' there, despite being outnumbered three-to-one and having been yanked out of SC via interdiction and then scanned without his consent. My CMDR was wanted, but the bounty (as mentioned by @Screemonster here) was originally accidental. After acquiring it my CMDR had simply continued participating in the CG as normal, only destroying CMDR who tried to claim, or looked like they might try to claim, his bounty.

As the Reddit thread hints at, quite a few people were positively incensed that I would have my CMDR would fire upon ships for interdicting and scanning him and I believe the leader of the wing I shot down actually quit the game shortly after. I am positive people blocked my CMDR after watching or hearing about this encounter (where I was scrupulously polite, aside from the weapons fire).

Anyway, my point here is that there is no amount of bending over backwards that is going to satisfy everyone, probably not even the majority of people, who believe there is a 'ganker problem'. No amount of accommodation is enough for that subset of the player base. There were as significant number of people who thought (and I know this because they told me) that my CMDR should have fled the CG, or that I should have retired to Solo, or that I should have suicidewindered (which was an actual cheat as far as I was concerned), or that I should have just let someone claim his bounty. Obviously, I thought these suggestions were contextless, immersion defying, and utterly absurd to the point of being offensive. So, I participated in the CG (top 10% by the way, Open-only of course) until my CMDR's bounty grew so large that people who actually knew what they were doing became curious and drove me off...probably just so novices would stop crying about getting shot down in system chat when they interdicted my CMDR.

As an aside, I want to note that this encounter also significantly predates Engineers, so there can be none of that Engineered vs. nEngineered scapegoatery; PvE bounty hunting experience was no preparation for PvP even then, and most people that had never fought another CMDR before would not have stood any chance against my CMDR, no matter what ships, loadouts, or how many equally inexperienced friends, they brought with them. The assertion that Engineering changed the power dynamic in a meaningful way is a myth.

This scenario is also an example of how a fixation on playing the game the way it's supposedly 'meant' to be played can lead to absurdity. My CMDR had a red WANTED on him, so of course all of these newbies were sure they were supposed to attack him, and of course he would just roll over and explode, like the thousand NPCs they had fought before...right?! People were following some stupid gamist assumption, rather than applying anything resembling sense, then getting offended when I refused cap my CMDR's skill at that of an NPC.

More than seven years later, Frontier still needs to fix their difficulty scaling.



In my case, the most tangible reward is usually not going to the rebuy screen or having to vacate the area, cause most of the people my CMDR 'ganks' are trying to shot him down...with most of balance either crapping up my BGS work, or fighting on the opposing side of a CZ.

Not remotely all, but a significant fraction of this loose anti-ganker crowd, thinks I'm not being accommodating enough unless I calmly explain to every piece of trash ignoramus trying to take a pot shot at my CMDR that I'd kindly rather they didn't, instead of just using all these damned guns he's got.



For me, the most enjoyable tests of skills aren't against 1v1mebros in identical loadouts in contrived scenarios (though I do practice these enough to only occasionally completely embarrass myself when they happen organically), it's overcoming the unexpected, when I'm not specifically looking for trouble. That's the PvP I'm looking for. And I've gotten fairly good at this sort of stuff...well, good enough that I've played essentially exclusively in Open for more than 7k hours and have never gotten my CMDR shot down in a scenario where I wasn't actively looking for trouble...have had plenty of exhilaratingly close calls though and they were the best PvP experiences I've had in most any game.



What makes you think it was a ganker who attacked you at the Guardian ruins? Maybe it was someone who just wanted a blueprint and was wary around random CMDRs? I guess that depends on your definition of ganker...

I personally would probably have just left for another site, but if I was in enough of a hurry for a final blueprint or set of materials, I might have had my CMDR destroy yours, because I absolutely will not relog/reinstance to refresh things (it's something I think is a context defying exploit that should be patched out). The game does incentivize violence in these scenarios, because a warning often results in the stranger mode switching, which means I then have to watch my back for a hostile ship that could teleport in at any moment any where. Going for the ship destruction usually means buying enough time that I could get what I came for and get out before the retaliation attempt shows up.
The irony is that Open needs more constraints (calm yourself Robert! Think of puppies or kittens :D ) to really make it function in a logical way and people take better care of themselves- that and form more structures that protect each other (such as squadrons, closer wings and so on) thus making groups advantageous.

Having too few rules has led to a mode that sort of works occasionally, but is ultimately dysfunctional.
 
Anyway, my point here is that there is no amount of bending over backwards that is going to satisfy everyone, probably not even the majority of people, who believe there is a 'ganker problem'. No amount of accommodation is enough for that subset of the player base. There were as significant number of people who thought (and I know this because they told me) that my CMDR should have fled the CG, or that I should have retired to Solo, or that I should have suicidewindered (which was an actual cheat as far as I was concerned), or that I should have just let someone claim his bounty. Obviously, I thought these suggestions were contextless, immersion defying, and utterly absurd to the point of being offensive. So, I participated in the CG (top 10% by the way, Open-only of course) until my CMDR's bounty grew so large that people who actually knew what they were doing became curious and drove me off...probably just so novices would stop crying about getting shot down in system chat when they interdicted my CMDR.
There's a weird subset of people who seem to think that doing anything that incurs a bounty at all, even against NPCs, means you're playing the game wrong.

It's a real problem when it comes to crime and punishment updates because people just seem incapable of accepting that some people want to explore those avenues of gameplay against NPCs, and pretty much any thread on the subject will be derailed with "but gankers" on page 1.
 
What makes you think it was a ganker who attacked you at the Guardian ruins? Maybe it was someone who just wanted a blueprint and was wary around random CMDRs? I guess that depends on your definition of ganker...
Nice try, it was a ganker, we had a full and frank discussion in chat, as i said 'low life' with nowt better to do.
No defence for these idiots.

O7
 
I can't wait to inform these players that engineering is grave robbing, endorsing criminals, looting and smuggling.
And some of them get real big mad about that too.
Especially since piling into a base and killing everything that moves regardless of whether it's a threat to you is the fastest way to get odyssey mats. Therefore it's the way it must be done regardless of whether there's a clean method.

For maximum hypocrisy look at the guys that say "just do it at an anarchy base" and get confused and mad when the lawful base in an anarchy system puts a bounty on them. "H-h-how was I supposed to know gunning down the inhabitants of this settlement to steal their stuff was a bad thing?"
 
These are the same people who in the ED Facebook community circles went after a palliative care nurse who was a pvper, suggesting she wasnt suitable for her real life vocation due to her love of exploding space pixels.

It'd be best just to not interact with these folk as much as you can.
 
I can't wait to inform these players that engineering is grave robbing, endorsing criminals, looting and smuggling.
There are maniacs out there (like myself) that do nothing else then ED. These players can easily afford to invest time in engineering and practice specific drills. Other, more casual, players have not the time for this.

I have a squad member that has little time for ED and when is online wants to do some fun stuff, not grinding. We play open almost everytime when possible (not at Guardian Ruins or when there is a landing pad shortage for example). That would be all ok, if the game allowed me to defend my mate. Wing-Navlock is broken as hell, so i cant do that reliable. So the only solution is block or use other methods like taking advantage of fighter caused lag or menue-log-out.

Short summary: As long as the ganker takes advantage of unharmed attacking a (more or less) noob, blocking is the best solution.

I would prefer other methods but the game is too buggy in this.
 
Because piracy is crap.

Most people combat log regardless of in-chat announcements you're a serious pirate, some simply low- or highwake away, and if you're doing it in CG systems you're constantly attacked by both lawful CMDRs like SPEAR and by gankers who both know a pirate vessel is no match to a dedicated PvP ship.
And on top of that the gameplay is so lousy reward-wise and makes absolutely no sense ingame. I mean, why should my 27 billion heavy CMDR rob a poor T7 pilot for 200000 credits?
Actually, I was pirated a month ago in Deciat, the guy was phenomenal. SPEAR where there and thought he was a ganker but once he explained what he was doing he was left alone to conduct his business. He kept interdicting people, trying to rob cargo, robbing a bit of cargo and generally playing the role in chat.. it was a lot of fun. I guess it takes effort but a good experience.
 
And some of them get real big mad about that too.
Especially since piling into a base and killing everything that moves regardless of whether it's a threat to you is the fastest way to get odyssey mats. Therefore it's the way it must be done regardless of whether there's a clean method.

For maximum hypocrisy look at the guys that say "just do it at an anarchy base" and get confused and mad when the lawful base in an anarchy system puts a bounty on them. "H-h-how was I supposed to know gunning down the inhabitants of this settlement to steal their stuff was a bad thing?"
Personally I do not care about Odyssey material grind. Haven't upgraded any of my gear.
 
Personally I do not care about Odyssey material grind. Haven't upgraded any of my gear.
You don't actually have to unless you're really into high-intensity zones (and even then, the raw overkill of an L-6 will get you pretty far) - for the vast majority of missions to settlements, unless you're doing a tipped-off massacre or something similar, the zapper is more than enough to get rid of anyone you need to get rid of.
 
You don't actually have to unless you're really into high-intensity zones (and even then, the raw overkill of an L-6 will get you pretty far) - for the vast majority of missions to settlements, unless you're doing a tipped-off massacre or something similar, the zapper is more than enough to get rid of anyone you need to get rid of.
Its funny as in space PvE you can pretty much do anything with some G1 and light tech broker stuff, or even non engineered A grade ships.

When I used to BGS murderspank the police I'd do it in a near stock Clipper to keep costs down on bounties. Saying that I've seen G5 Cutters run like scared animals from Sidewinders armed with cannons and mines.
 
Actually, I was pirated a month ago in Deciat, the guy was phenomenal. SPEAR where there and thought he was a ganker but once he explained what he was doing he was left alone to conduct his business. He kept interdicting people, trying to rob cargo, robbing a bit of cargo and generally playing the role in chat.. it was a lot of fun. I guess it takes effort but a good experience.
Try it yourself. I did several times, in the bubble and in Colonia. 9 out of 10 CMDRs log the moment the interdiction minigame starts.
I don't deny there are good pirates out there or that it works. But 90% is logging and the rest looks like this:
Source: https://youtu.be/HAo2DSEZF2o
 
Actually, I was pirated a month ago in Deciat, the guy was phenomenal. SPEAR where there and thought he was a ganker but once he explained what he was doing he was left alone to conduct his business. He kept interdicting people, trying to rob cargo, robbing a bit of cargo and generally playing the role in chat.. it was a lot of fun. I guess it takes effort but a good experience.
That to me is reasonably game play.

Problem is, there is no way to tell beforehand whether the person doing the interdicting is role playing a pirate or just out for the booms regardless.

Steve
 
That to me is reasonably game play.

Problem is, there is no way to tell beforehand whether the person doing the interdicting is role playing a pirate or just out for the booms regardless.

Steve
Ummmmm, what ship are they flying? Whats inside? (admittedly not possible in some circumstances)
 
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