The Open v Solo v Groups thread
- Thread starter Ozric
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Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
Which is all well and good for EVE, however Frontier didn't set out to make an EVE-like game. They didn't seek funding on the Kickstarter for an EVE-like game, and the design they published at the start of the Kickstarter was clearly not for an EVE-like game.
Some players of different play-styles have been a bit sad for years, e.g.:
- players who like PvP and can shoot at any player they instance with, but players don't need to instance with them to play the game;
- players who don't like PvP and seek a co-operative game, but any player they instance with can shoot at them at will.
Is there a realistic expectation that players who don't enjoy PvP would be happy to be forced to play among those who enjoy PvP to engage in existing mode shared game features?
EVE is a game where PvP is less optional than it is in this game, with other players being an optional extra here.
Why not ask the EVE developers to introduce first person flight?
.... and there's no need to copy EVE in a non-EVE-like game.
This one is just a baby compared to those that have gone before:
Modes - The Solo vs Open vs Groups Thread [See new thread]
There have been several threads on the topic of switching between solo/private groups/open. This thread is going to be the merge target for all other threads on the topic, no matter how 'unique' the thread creator may think their thread is. Creating a poll is not unique. Posting in here has...
Modes - The Solo vs Open vs Groups Thread - Part the Second [Now With Added Platforms].
Elite Dangerous is an online game that allows players to play in three potential 'modes': Online ALL group (called open play) where the player is in the same universe as all other players and can see and be seen by all others in open play Online PRIVATE GROUP play where the player is online in...
Modes - The Solo vs Open vs Groups Thread - Mk III
Elite Dangerous is an online game that allows players to play in three potential 'modes': Online ALL group (called open play) where the player is in the same universe as all other players and can see and be seen by all others in open play Online PRIVATE GROUP play where the player is online in...
Modes - The Open v Solo v Groups thread IV - Hotel California
Elite Dangerous is an online game that allows players to play in three potential 'modes': Online ALL group (called open play) where the player is in the same universe as all other players and can see and be seen by all others in open play Online PRIVATE GROUP play where the player is online in...
Here's a link to the FAQ posted during the Kickstarter phase which may go some way to explaining why the game is the way it is (for reference, the OP of the thread Ashley Barley was a Community Manager at the time):
Frequently Asked Questions- Elite: Dangerous
FAQ- Elite: Dangerous Where can I pledge to Elite: Dangerous? You can pledge to Elite: Dangerous on Kickstarter here or by PayPal here Can you release “Elite” on the (iPhone/iPad/Console/Mac/Linux/Oculus Rift/Raspberry Pi) platform? Yes. It would be great. The PC version comes first though...
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For some reason there are many completely opposite signs and I personally don't understand why.Which is all well and good for EVE, however Frontier didn't set out to make an EVE-like game. They didn't seek funding on the Kickstarter for an EVE-like game, and the design they published at the start of the Kickstarter was clearly not for an EVE-like game.
Players can choose to play in any game mode, but players cannot force other players to play with them.
Is there a realistic expectation that players who don't enjoy PvP would be happy to be forced to play among those who enjoy PvP to engage in existing mode shared game features?
EVE is a game where PvP is less optional than it is in this game, with other players being an optional extra here.
Why not ask the EVE developers to introduce first person flight?
.... and there's no need to copy EVE in a non-EVE-like game.
This one is just a baby compared to those that have gone before:
Modes - The Solo vs Open vs Groups Thread [See new thread]
There have been several threads on the topic of switching between solo/private groups/open. This thread is going to be the merge target for all other threads on the topic, no matter how 'unique' the thread creator may think their thread is. Creating a poll is not unique. Posting in here has...forums.frontier.co.uk
Modes - The Solo vs Open vs Groups Thread - Part the Second [Now With Added Platforms].
Elite Dangerous is an online game that allows players to play in three potential 'modes': Online ALL group (called open play) where the player is in the same universe as all other players and can see and be seen by all others in open play Online PRIVATE GROUP play where the player is online in...Modes - The Solo vs Open vs Groups Thread - Mk III
Elite Dangerous is an online game that allows players to play in three potential 'modes': Online ALL group (called open play) where the player is in the same universe as all other players and can see and be seen by all others in open play Online PRIVATE GROUP play where the player is online in....... and this discussion started about the time that the Kickstarter ended, a little over eleven years ago, when some backers realised that others would not be forced to play with them to affect the shared galaxy state.Modes - The Open v Solo v Groups thread IV - Hotel California
Elite Dangerous is an online game that allows players to play in three potential 'modes': Online ALL group (called open play) where the player is in the same universe as all other players and can see and be seen by all others in open play Online PRIVATE GROUP play where the player is online in...
Here's a link to the FAQ posted during the Kickstarter phase which may go some way to explaining why the game is the way it is (for reference, the OP of the thread Ashley Barley was a Community Manager at the time):
Frequently Asked Questions- Elite: Dangerous
FAQ- Elite: Dangerous Where can I pledge to Elite: Dangerous? You can pledge to Elite: Dangerous on Kickstarter here or by PayPal here Can you release “Elite” on the (iPhone/iPad/Console/Mac/Linux/Oculus Rift/Raspberry Pi) platform? Yes. It would be great. The PC version comes first though...
For example :
- We don't want to separate NPCs and players, but immediately paint them in a hollow square
- Known immediately appears on all stations and ships in the galaxy, but neither the system map nor the radar shows that there is a player with a known player.
And so there are a lot of things. Why is it like this?
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
From the FAQ, "How does multi-player work":
" All players will be part of a “Pilot’s Federation” – that is how they are distinguished from non-players – so you will be able to tell who is a player and who is a non-player easily."
Not sure what is meant by "neither the system map nor the radar shows that there is a player with a known player".
It's not clear why the free NPC is not a member of the pilot federation.
Notoriety, highlighted in purple on the radar.
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
They are not because they are not players, and membership of the Pilots' Federation is what is used to distinguish between players and NPCs, most notably on the scanner. Players also have the CMDR prefix applied.
Notoriety came much later on. Is it highlighted on the scanner?
For what ?
No. I am writing about the system scanner in SC mode
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
Why should there be no distinction between players and NPCs?
Why should notoriety be specially highlighted?
Because in the Elite world, we're all ship commanders.
It's not a local reward, it's a global one.
Players have graduated from the Pilot school, the NPCs get their flight licence in the cornflakes.
Steve
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
I expect that Frontier decided during the design phase that a multi-player game set in a play area the size of the galaxy would feel very lonely if players could not identify other players.
Notoriety is not really a reward, more an acknowledgement of particular actions. It may apply galaxy wide, but it does not seem to be advertised to other players. The reason why not is unknown.
I’ve occasionally brought this up in one form or another, but I’ve long held the belief that when it comes to PvP, there are five cohorts of players, based on their need for other players to be their content, and their willingness to be the content of others:
- The PvPer: This cohort needs other players to be their content, but is also willing to be the content of others.
- The PvEer: This cohort has no need for other players as content, nor are they willing being the content of others.
- The Thrill Seeker: This cohort has no need for other players as content, but is willing to be the content of others.
- The GIFTers: This cohort* needs other players to be their content, but they are not willing to be the content of others.
- The Average Player: The largest cohort, this cohort falls outside these four extremes. Some may exhibit tendencies towards one of the them, but for the most part they find most other groups fun to play with.
Only one of these cohorts, the GIFTers, are not fun to play with… in large doses. In moderate doses, they can be tolerable for the Thrill Seeker and the PvPer. In small doses, they might be tolerable to the average player, but they will never be tolerable to the PvEer. On the flip side, GIFTers cannot tolerate PvPers, don't think Thrill Seekers make good "content," and they find that the average player starts showing Thrill Seeker or PvPer tendancies after a while. Only PvEers provide the best "content" in their eyes.
Each type of player can potentially bring something unique to an open-PvP environment, but the interactions between two of them, the GIFTers and the PvEers, are by their very nature inevitably toxic. Keep those two groups completely separate, and mysteriously the GIFTers stop being a huge problem for everyone.
___________
* GIFT - first mentioned in a Penny Arcade strip. Feel free to google it.
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
Indeed, noting that the "average player", in a game where other players have always been an optional extra, might be a bit different from the average player in a game where all players share a single game mode.
The response to Eve's method was to play the X series.
Not so, those people who do ganking don't hide it and don't pretend to be pirates, they are different groups of people.
I treat the Titans and Spires in the same manner as an event, eg. CG.
Best done in Solo or PG not so much for the gankers, my ships are built to get past Glaives so they aren't an issue. However the effects of other Cmdrs at the target frequently make it frustrating to do. Solo resolves this and I can have Syschat to interact with others at the location.
I know about the bug, and I think I wrote about it. But that's not the point, it's just a prime example of ganking without risk and punishment.
Not the pineapple thing.
Mostly the Orthrus' hunters that turn the place into a wasps nest. Worse at Spires whilst gathering corrosive cargo from the barnacles in an SRV and getting hit by shutdown field after shutdown field.