The Problem with Game Balance

[deleteduser]

The majority of players enjoy the game and its modes. It was with those modes in mind that many (probably as many or more than) bought the game.

Nobody bought E: D for [Modes]. The concept of [Modes] doesn't work unless there is a game backing them up and they were added to alleviate concerns of griefing. That the game is what it is, a shared and shapeable galaxy, accessed with spacships with guns and FtL drives, in which you compete agaisnt every other player for riches, fame & survival, is what sold it, along with a little 'nostalgia' trip for those from the class of '84.

 

[npcole]

The OP wants a pvp only game. We have that in CQC. No one plays it.

A lot of the balance issues are caused by min-maxing a build to get maximum credits from trading or mining and then not having any protection — either from a wing mate or compomises in the build — from attack.

I do think that there is an asymmetry in the game: if you are out to fight players in open there are few compromises to make, but everyone else needs a compromised build.

I enjoy casual PVP fighting — I have an engineered ship but I don’t fly something fitted out for PVP combat but for general use. And this is where I struggle — the PVP min-mixers have ships useless for anything except combat but get salty at transfer costs and fees.

So I’m happy asking the PVE mining ships to compromise and fit a shield. But what is the compromise that a Pirate or Bounty Hunter needs to make to their build? Currently, there isn’t one.

 

[Brrokk]

Sorry DV but I think you place way too much importance in yourself.
The game is for a wider audience than your (and your friends) play style. The majority of players enjoy the game and its modes. It was with those modes in mind that many (probably as many or more than) bought the game.

The root problem is people thought the game was somthing it wasnt even though its clear in the advertising that it had modes, and that even if you played alone you would be able to influence the game.

The only imbalance in the game is with the ships and some builds.

The game has combat, both npc and pc but its not primarily a PvP any more than it is primarily a space mining game.

There is provably no right way to play the game per the designer himself.

Your views are simply your views they are no more correct than anyone elses.

What you see as a massive flaw others see as a feature.

So we will just have to disagree on weather the modes are a feature or a flaw.

I think the modes are a brilliantly innovative feature; I can't think of another game like it. Providing all the types of play different people want without running separate servers, doing it all with instancing is a very clever and economical design. We all get a better game because FD benefit from the economies and develop new features for all of us. If ED had only been a solo game or only been a PvP game it could have failed and been history by now.

 

[Sup3rfluiD]

PVE -player vs everything.

 

[deleteduser]

The OP wants a pvp only game. We have that in CQC. No one plays it.

The OP's clearly stated solution is a [PvE] only game, and a [PvP] only game. CQC isn't either of these things. Both [PvE] & [PvP] are fully featured separate Elite galaxies, complete with BGS, PP & Stellar Forge etc...

So I’m happy asking the PVE mining ships to compromise and fit a shield. But what is the compromise that a Pirate or Bounty Hunter needs to make to their build? Currently, there isn’t one.

Whilst you're happy asking, PvE'ers are happily saying "No, [[[Mode]]]]!" And why should either the PvE'ers or the PvP'ers be satisfied with the broken status quo, or compromising their playstyle to fit someone else's agenda?
The fix for these problems, is simple to achieve and doesn't break anything else for anyone else in the process.

 

[Mohrgan]

The OP's clearly stated solution is a [PvE] only game, and a [PvP] only game. CQC isn't either of these things. Both [PvE] & [PvP] are fully featured separate Elite galaxies, complete with BGS, PP & Stellar Forge etc...



Whilst you're happy asking, PvE'ers are happily saying "No, [[[Mode]]]]!" And why should either the PvE'ers or the PvP'ers be satisfied with the broken status quo, or compromising their playstyle to fit someone else's agenda?
The fix for these problems, is simple to achieve and doesn't break anything else for anyone else in the process.

The fix for these problems is to just accept that others play differently to you, and let that be ok. Access to the galaxy is available in every mode. Use them like you would a ship's module. Plug them in as you see fit. But, most importantly,play and let play.

 

[deleteduser]

The fix for these problems is to just accept that others play differently to you, and let that be ok.

That's not a fix, that's accepting imbalanced gameplay caused by poor design choices, as a feature.

If you, personally, are happy with this state of affairs that's great, the solution offered in OP isn't going to change anything about the game you play.
It will achieve this whilst still adressing the root cause of the major problems and concerns highlighted by innumerable players in countless forum threads.

 

[Mohrgan]

That's not a fix, that's accepting imbalanced gameplay caused by poor design choices, as a feature.

If you, personally, are happy with this state of affairs that's great, the solution offered in OP isn't going to change anything about the game you play.
It will achieve this whilst still adressing the root cause of the major problems and concerns highlighted by innumerable players in countless forum threads.

We fundamentally disagree on this subject. Haranguing each serves no purpose. I've made my point, and stand behind it. I'll wait to see if some other point is made that requires rebuttal.

P.S. If we were to value arguments by their frequency, might we have an argument to stop ganking?

 

[Schmack]

The OP's clearly stated solution is a [PvE] only game, and a [PvP] only game. CQC isn't either of these things. Both [PvE] & [PvP] are fully featured separate Elite galaxies, complete with BGS, PP & Stellar Forge etc...



Whilst you're happy asking, PvE'ers are happily saying "No, [[[Mode]]]]!" And why should either the PvE'ers or the PvP'ers be satisfied with the broken status quo, or compromising their playstyle to fit someone else's agenda?
The fix for these problems, is simple to achieve and doesn't break anything else for anyone else in the process.

But I already have a PvE only game. It's the PvP folks that are wanting something different.

 

[deleteduser]

We fundamentally disagree on this subject. Haranguing each serves no purpose. I've made my point, and stand behind it. I'll wait to see if some other point is made that requires rebuttal.

Stand by your point by all means, it has been shown to be moot in the context of this thread which discusses a problem and a viable solution.

But I already have a PvE only game. It's the PvP folks that are wanting something different.

You don't. Everything you do in game affects everyone else's game, irrespective of the [Mode] you're playing in. It is PvP for everyone, regardless. Playing in [Modes] allows you to forego just one element of the PvP experience.

If you are currently playing solely in [Modes], then the solution in OP isn't going to affect your game at all.

 

[Mohrgan]

Stand by your point by all means, it has been shown to be moot in the context of this thread which discusses a problem and a viable solution.

This thread has been shown to be moot in the context of the game. The problem is with the users, not the program.

Two can play that game.

 

[MajorHavoc]

Just for context KS backed for a modern single player Elite 4. No interest at all in multiplayer, the connected galaxy idea pitched just a curio, it was obvious from the very start that the game would be unbalanced. The decision to halt development of the mentioned 'offline' game sealed the fate of a 'dual' environment.

Elite has always been 'unbalanced'. There is no difficulty option on the start menu.

 

[Schmack]

Stand by your point by all means, it has been shown to be moot in the context of this thread which discusses a problem and a viable solution.



You don't. Everything you do in game affects everyone else's game, irrespective of the [Mode] you're playing in. It is PvP for everyone, regardless. Playing in [Modes] allows you to forego just one element of the PvP experience.

If you are currently playing solely in [Modes], then the solution in OP isn't going to affect your game at all.

I will say however that I would be perfectly fine if there was an option when you first launch your game to be Open or Group. Solo doesn't need to exist. You can simply create a one person group and not invite anyone. If you choose Open, you are playing Open mode for the remainder of that character's career. If you want to change modes, you have to forfeit your earnings and your ships, and you start fresh with a sidey. Same with Group of course. The problem would be the background simulation. One would still affect the other. There would be no mode switching though, and anyone you saw in Open would be an Open player. If they were in an Anaconda, you can rest assured they aren't going to forfeit everything.

As far as the BGS, having two would suit me just fine but I have no problem with the one we have now, probably because I don't try to "shape the narrative and the galaxy". I just go do stuff.

 

[Zeeman]

This is what happens when its possible to illegally purchase credits with cash

Nope - this is purely due to engineering. This was not even close to an issue before engineering - A grading any ship was as far as you could go, and th problem with engineering, is they ended up boosting firepower and shields to such an extent, that A grade may as well be nothing.

On top of that, PvP is different to PvE - in PvP, you basically ar looking to take down a single opponent ASAP, in PvE, you are looking to take down as many opponents as possible before you need to go back to a station and dock. This results in very different weapons load outs.

Money has not been an issue in this game for a loooonnng time.
Z...

 

[Hooplah]

Let's consider another direction...

The problem with the game is Solo, Group and Open modes. Add in many thousands of players expecting a result from playing other games are disappointed as ED doesn't play with the same gaming rules of the past. A few of them find the Forum and rant about it. MMO in ED is totally different. Trying to get Frontier to make it a standard MMO isn't going to happen. They went in another direction. Five years into the game and Frontier is still making millions of pounds with each annual Fiscal report to their investors. Other game developers are watching. Frontier made 20 million sales on the Frontier Store last year while others try to get the same with conventional DLC content and version five promoting it over Christmas. Frontier is going to change the gaming world. For better or worse we'll see...

People don't like change. It can be frightening and like an alien ship form another world landing in your backyard we respond differently. The more we don't know the more we fear and go on the defense. Then again why would an advanced alien society come here unless they are gathering info to make sure that we don't mess up our local neighbors when we figure out how to visit them.

On the other hand we have a lot of water. Maybe some aliens need this and like Europeans colonizing the Americas in the 17th Century, later on with defeating a indigenous Indian population in the 19th century we take what we want. Let's hope the aliens if they show up are not as vicious as us. And you thought this post was all about a game.

 

[Bayaz]

Yeah nah OP bro I disagree, thanks for the thesis though.

 

[jonesskill]

I doubt that this is a Major Problem, since Money making in Elite is way too easy. It was easy from the beginning, and it has become even more easy during the 4 years of being released.

1 Billion per day is definetely way too easy.

"Way to easy" to someone that can play 12-15 hours/day.

Don't think people have that free time you (seems to) have,

 

[Sup3rfluiD]

"Way to easy" to someone that can play 12-15 hours/day.

Don't think people have that free time you (seems to) have,

Some only get this sort of time in a week.
But it still ends up in the same place in a game that plays for a decade.

 

[Feros-da-Grundig]

Game balance is perfect, I stomp at will, and decide when and where I get stomped to learn

Why so many complaints

ez-pz

so many ways to git gud

only imbalance is the nonsense. open and solo affecting each other, no meaningful consequences or tracking mechanics. That's imbalanced

The pew pew pew is fine, if anything weighted towards eternal life. gilgamesh and all that. get some enginnered A rated and slap some shield boosters on there

ez-pz

play to win or at least survive and it becomes crystal clear

Or solo, which is just as fine and clear

so many complains.

oof

 

[Feros-da-Grundig]

Some only get this sort of time in a week.
But it still ends up in the same place in a game that plays for a decade.

It's about efficiency.

Gotta cut the fat. Play to how the game is, not how you want it to be.

From that mindset, the time commitment is greatly reduced

Survival so easy. No one takes FDev up on the offer.