PvP The PvE <-> PvP Rift

[jasonbarron]

Um... It's a video game. And, my ethics, to let people enjoy the actual design of the game, isn't trash at all. You're not liking it makes not one jot of difference.

I'd fall for my family, my country, and my neighbors. Not a pixel faction in a video game. Try not to make it so important, you'll be happier.

He's correct though, because while it is indeed a video game, it happens to be one where we have a multiplayer baseline that means we all effect one another in some way, be that great or small. As such, ethics do play a part. I'd direct this last bit towards a couple of risg & ziggy's last few posts; I agree that it's not a "PvP vs PvE" issue, but rather one of fairness: some players recognize that the current situation is unfair, while another much larger group is purely happy to have the situation languish in its current state because fairness or the lack thereof is not an issue that crosses their minds, and if it does it's easily suppressed.

Fdev didn't make the modes the way they were because it was fair, but rather because they had no choice.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

I'm sorry. I was under the impression everyone could choose the mode they wish to play in.

It's disturbing to hear that the options solo and pg is not available to everyone. I wasn't aware some only have open at their disposal.

 

[jasonbarron]

I'm sorry. I was under the impression everyone could choose the mode they wish to play in.

It's disturbing to hear that the options solo and pg is not available to everyone. I wasn't aware some only have open at their disposal.

Believe it or not I don't care what mode anyone plays in...until I get to the part where they have the ability to effect me from another mode; at that point my bull manure detector starts ringing. Obviously Fdev's position on this is crystal clear, but so is mine for whatever that's worth: malarkey.

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

Believe it or not I don't care what mode anyone plays in...until I get to the part where they have the ability to effect me from another mode; at that point my bull manure detector starts ringing. Obviously Fdev's position on this is crystal clear, but so is mine for whatever that's worth: malarkey.

Thing is. It doesn't mean it cant ever be changed.

And I think that scares them more than accepting that games indeed change when it comes to balancing stuff like this.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Believe it or not I don't care what mode anyone plays in...until I get to the part where they have the ability to effect me from another mode; at that point my bull manure detector starts ringing. Obviously Fdev's position on this is crystal clear, but so is mine for whatever that's worth: malarkey.

Because you don't have the ability to effect others the exact same way.

I agree. That is unfair. Everyone should have the same tools at their disposal.

 

[Roybe]

People should be allowed to defend their assets in said areas via "Direct PVP".

The devs disagree...and this will NEVER change! LOL!

 

[Phisto Sobanii]

He's correct though, because while it is indeed a video game, it happens to be one where we have a multiplayer baseline that means we all effect one another in some way, be that great or small. As such, ethics do play a part. I'd direct this last bit towards a couple of risg & ziggy's last few posts; I agree that it's not a "PvP vs PvE" issue, but rather one of fairness: some players recognize that the current situation is unfair, while another much larger group is purely happy to have the situation languish in its current state because fairness or the lack thereof is not an issue that crosses their minds, and if it does it's easily suppressed.

Fdev didn't make the modes the way they were because it was fair, but rather because they had no choice.

Exactly.

Folks like Risg and Ziggy scream and yell that nothing needs to change and everyone can pick their modes and everything is fine fine fine fine fine don't look here no everything is fine and it very clearly isn't to anyone without a huge vested interest in the status quo.

Y'all are full of it and more and more people ain't gonna take it anymore. Full stop. Enjoy the twilight of your dominance on these forums.

 

[Nemayn]

He's correct though, because while it is indeed a video game, it happens to be one where we have a multiplayer baseline that means we all effect one another in some way, be that great or small. As such, ethics do play a part. I'd direct this last bit towards a couple of risg & ziggy's last few posts; I agree that it's not a "PvP vs PvE" issue, but rather one of fairness: some players recognize that the current situation is unfair, while another much larger group is purely happy to have the situation languish in its current state because fairness or the lack thereof is not an issue that crosses their minds, and if it does it's easily suppressed.

Fdev didn't make the modes the way they were because it was fair, but rather because they had no choice.

I see so lets compare fair's here

I disrupt your game by shooting you when you aren't wanting to shot at

pvper says its fair because the game allows it and you can always git gud or go to another mode

I disrupt your game by influencing the bgs by filling pve buckets in another mode

pve'er says its fair becaise the game allows it and you can always fill pve buckets in other modes


Seems pretty equivalent to me in terms of fairness. However I suspect you think the first is fair Jason.

In both scenario's the people are playing the game within the rules of what the game allows. In my view either both are fair or neither. Personally I plump for both

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Exactly.

Folks like Risg and Ziggy scream and yell

I don't scream and yell on a sunday.

It's a day of rest for our Lord as well.

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

I don't scream and yell on a sunday.

It's a day of rest for our Lord as well.

I am indeed resting.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

I am indeed resting.

You don't like screaming and yelling do ya?

 

[Mohrgan]

He's correct though, because while it is indeed a video game, it happens to be one where we have a multiplayer baseline that means we all effect one another in some way, be that great or small. As such, ethics do play a part. I'd direct this last bit towards a couple of risg & ziggy's last few posts; I agree that it's not a "PvP vs PvE" issue, but rather one of fairness: some players recognize that the current situation is unfair, while another much larger group is purely happy to have the situation languish in its current state because fairness or the lack thereof is not an issue that crosses their minds, and if it does it's easily suppressed.

Fdev didn't make the modes the way they were because it was fair, but rather because they had no choice.

We don't need to force a PvP framework on an issue of choice. If one player decides to fly a 'Vette, that doesn't mean every player must fly a 'Vette. If one player decides to to join a Player Group, that doesn't mean every player must join a Player Group. If one player decides to PP in open, that doesn't mean every player must PP in open.

Fairness is ensured, in the current rule set, because every player has equal access to all of the content, and all of the modes. An open-only advocate's choice to play only in open doesn't make Solo or PG unavailable to them. Only their choice to stay in open is the issue. If one believes there is a benefit to playing in Solo/PG they are welcome to use it. Only their personal choice not to, stops them. That is no one's problem but their own.

There is no fairness in forcing others to play within someone else's choices. Would it be fair to force everyone into a 'Vette? Would it be fair to force everyone to join a Player Group? The answer is, of course, no. This principal is exactly the same concerning the Modes. Your choice is your choice alone. No one should be compelled to endure your choices.

 

[lenna]

...

The situation is far from "unfair", everyone has "exactly the same" tools at their disposal to affect the BGS and PP regardless of the mode they play in.

The BGS and PP activities are PvE centric activities, if you want the PvP variant go and play EvE.

 

[Phisto Sobanii]

I don't scream and yell, and the situation is far from "unfair".

Everyone has "exactly the same" tools at their disposal to affect the BGS and PP regardless of the mode they play in, to claim otherwise is just plain dummy spitting by certain PvPers because at least some PvEers refuse to play directly with them.

The BGS and PP activities are PvE centric activities, if you want the PvP variant go and play EvE.

We kick the butts of a faction in Open play. They decide to UA bomb us from solo because they know if we catch them in Open they're dead. How is this, by any definition, in the spirit of good sportsmanship?

I don't scream and yell on a sunday.

It's a day of rest for our Lord as well.

Ain't no rest for the wicked.

 

[jasonbarron]

We kick the butts of a faction in Open play. They decide to UA bomb us from solo because they know if we catch them in Open they're dead. How is this, by any definition, in the spirit of good sportsmanship?

Simple: because Frontier said so

 

[Phisto Sobanii]

We don't need to force a PvP framework on an issue of choice. If one player decides to fly a 'Vette, that doesn't mean every player must fly a 'Vette. If one player decides to to join a Player Group, that doesn't mean every player must join a Player Group. If one player decides to PP in open, that doesn't mean every player must PP in open.

Fairness is ensured, in the current rule set, because every player has equal access to all of the content, and all of the modes. An open-only advocate's choice to play only in open doesn't make Solo or PG unavailable to them. Only their choice to stay in open is the issue. If one believes there is a benefit to playing in Solo/PG they are welcome to use it. Only their personal choice not to, stops them. That is no one's problem but their own.

There is no fairness in forcing others to play within someone else's choices. Would it be fair to force everyone into a 'Vette? Would it be fair to force everyone to join a Player Group? The answer is, of course, no. This principal is exactly the same concerning the Modes. Your choice is your choice alone. No one should be compelled to endure your choices.

Gosh you need to think better.

We're not insisting everyone play in Open. We're insisting BGS and PowerPlay only be affected by activities done in the Open mode. It's about good sportsmanship and and a worthwhile challenge. Clearly, y'all don't want that. Not sure what exactly you want, but it's certainly not in the best interests of the game (or any game, to be honest).

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Removing content from players who paid for that content. That's fair is it?

I do believe I agree with JB after all. It's those who informed themselves what they bought into, vs those who didn't. Now those who didn't are blaming everyone but themselves and wants to rob those who did and are now looking for handouts from the authority.

Ayn would not approve.

 

[Roybe]

Simple: because Frontier said so

Finally!

 

[Phisto Sobanii]

Simple: because Frontier said so

Oh. My mistake. Didn't realize we're not allowed to question FDEV ever. I'll be on my way. [haha]

Removing content from players who paid for that content. That's fair is it?

I do believe I agree with JB after all. It's those who informed themselves what they bought into, vs those who didn't. Now those who didn't are blaming everyone but themselves and wants to rob those who did and are now looking for handouts from the authority.

Ayn would not approve.

Improving the content of those that paid for the content, you mean.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Improving the content of those that paid for the content, you mean.

No, I meant what I wrote. If you aren't able to addres what I write, don't bother replying