The REAL difference between 'regular' and Imperial slaves...

[CATPAIN KIRK]

Imperial citizens sell themselves into bondage to begin with.

Mmh - bondage

But this is the delusion, though - There is no difference, in the end. Slavery is slavery is slavery - It doesn't matter if you want to be enslaved or not. It's the same concept as supposedly legitimate 'elected dictatorships', as ancient Greek democracies often turned into, where people would vote away their freedoms for the supposed security and protection promised by a would-be despot. You cannot vote away your rights, any more than you can legitimately sell yourself into slavery, which is the same thing, essentially. As a human being, you can't give away your right to freedom - it's a permanent, unalienable right.

Our right to liberty, as with the rights to life and the pursuit of happiness, are fundamental to who we are as human beings. They are an inseparable part of our humanity.

I know that these arguments for slavery are almost completely done from a RP perspective, but the argument is a disturbing one, so I wanted to answer it in this post, just for GP. Thanks for your time

Not meant to be derogatory, but I'd guess you're a WASP American, right?

Just asking because I think associactions with slavery may be rooted within our educational systems and they may have different approaches to the issue.

 

[PrometheusDarko]

I actually disagree from a non-RP as well as an RP perspective.

Imperial Slavery is more of a form of Indentured Servitude, as you've demonstrated you agree with. But something people always conveniently forget is very simply this: Morals are purely subjective to the time, place, and people. Now, let's go ahead and take a look at what Imperial Slavery really is.

An Imperial Citizen, who is under such a crippling amount of debt to even consider it (this is VERY important, we aren't talking about a semester's worth of student loans, we are talking the kind of debt that leads people to file Chapter 13 (complete and total, non-recoverable bankruptcy for non-US readers) at best case scenario, and wrap their lips around the barrel of a loaded gun worst case) decides to sell themselves into slavery for a set number of years. These citizens have no recourse available to them. Now, how does our current economy, as well as the Federation handle this? The most simplified version is nothing. The person spends the rest of their life in a state of perpetual debt, often times either scraping to survive, being pushed to illegal activity to attempt to settle the dept, or, as stated, some choose to end their own life seeing no escape and no improvement to their situation coming. Ever.

Now let's take a look at Indentured Servitude, or Imperial Slavery. First and foremost, the lore established that Imperial Slaves are not treated as animals or property save the simple definition of "I own this person". They are fed, watered, given housing, and unlike modern slavery, treated with respect and honor. This is built into the tenants of being an Imperial citizen. You behave honorably. This includes how you treat your slaves. There is no honor in beating your slaves, or belittling them. The flip is also reverse though, this Slave knows why he's in the situation. There is no honor in running away without settling your debt, there is no honor in refusing to do your duties. I don't believe the lore establishes length of servitude, but I know that life-spans in the 31st century are much longer than now. This means that 20-30 years of indentured servitude is nothing to clear yourself of all debt.

Now, the lore also establishes another custom to be aware of, and take into account when determining your moral stance: Many times, Slaves are provided with essentials by their "owner" upon leaving, for some corporations, this includes an option to stay on with pay, sometimes the slave is given a house, or a ship, or any other number of basics to start them off. The Empire has a clear and divided caste system, unlike the vague "lower" "middle" and "upper" class titles given to citizens of the US, Europe, and other modern countries. Most slaves who serve their terms honorably (which is a wide majority) exit their terms at a higher cast rank then when they enter. This is an improvement.

To me, this is an elegant and safe solution for what to do with debt. Someone buys your debt, pays it off, then, you work for them for x years until you're settled, getting a fresh lease on life in the process. Then there's that other simple concept that many people don't like: We have no rights.

Intrinsically, and very simply, humanity is no more special than that fly you just killed absentmindedly while reading this post. We have a set number of trips around our local star, which is not even a pimple on the butt of the photo-plankton of the ocean that is the known universe. We're each individually less than an atom of the that makes up that pimple on the plankton's butt. We tell ourselves that we have certain rights, and that we are owed something, but if you step back, and look at it objectively, these "rights" are just something our society determined was important. It is not a law of the Universe.

If a human goes their entire lives without freedom, without being able to shape their own destiny, what recourse does the Universe have? None. Zip. Zilch. Nada. Cero. Nul.

If someone tries to go faster than light, what happens? The Universe Slows Down Time to keep them from doing so. Imperial Slavery takes a serious problem and gives it an, in my opinion, elegant solution, given the variables provided. Were similar variables present on present day Earth (namely the longer life-span and in-built value of behaving in a specific manner towards "slaves") I'd dare-say I'd even be for it myself.

 

[Deleted member 56127]

In the end we all look to "Slaves" and "Imperial Slaves" as commodities Commanders, this is until they introduce a free slaves system other than the missions. And how many of you doing the little Princess stories and freeing the Slaves through the missions !?!? They pay nothing ( and for a smug like myself pay is pay no matter what ) but actually help reputation a LOT.

I usually free Slaves if I find them floating in space ( I refuse to smuggle Slaves... ) by generous use of laser on the canisters.

"Finally Free!" they echoed unison. They were actually right.

Have you no honor about you? Surely, you cannot be speaking as an Imperial for all Imperials throughout the Empire? You sir are no Imperial.

 

[huwthomas]

Slavery is slavery is slavery - It doesn't matter if you want to be enslaved or not. It's the same concept as supposedly legitimate 'elected dictatorships', as ancient Greek democracies often turned into, where people would vote away their freedoms for the supposed security and protection promised by a would-be despot. You cannot vote away your rights, any more than you can legitimately sell yourself into slavery, which is the same thing, essentially. As a human being, you can't give away your right to freedom - it's a permanent, unalienable right.

How about military, security/intelligence service or similar?

A soldier signs up (or is conscripted, in time of real need) for a term of service and is then expected to obey regulations and orders -- sacrificing life and limb of called on to do so. Not that long ago they could be executed by firing squad for desertion or cowardice. Seems like a pretty extreme form of giving up rights to me!

By contrast an Imperial slave always volunteers and is treated in a highly regulated manner ... in the old lore, they couldn't even be transported in cargo, they had to be provided with a cabin (shame this has gone IMO).

 

[Argus Leadhead]

Ah but that is how the unjust keep their slaves in bondage, they let them pay for food and lodging, so prolonging their servitude for longer and longer
because they can never pay of their debts in this way. This goes for the dishonest ones ofcourse

I've witnessed something along these lines while I was working in China. A rival company would hire English speaking people out of the Philippines as ESL teachers because they would work for a lower wage than native English speakers. These poor people would come over to China for the sole purpose of sending money back to their families. The company hiring them would never give them enough work to make a living and constantly "lend" the workers money, which had to be paid back. The lack of hours combined with the "loans" was essentially 'legal' slavery. There was no possible way for them to pay off the constant loans and even afford a bowl of rice.

I'm so glad that company went under, people should never be treated like that.

 

[carniak]

Damn. I came in here hoping the difference was in the size of their loincloth or that Imperial Slaves are all called Spartacus.

 

[Quineloe]

Slavery in this game isn't really complete until you can pirate Orcas and have them dump their passengers as slaves.

 

[Questionable Ethics]

Behold!

The Empire's highly esteemed education system demonstrates its worth once again!

Just because two things are called the same thing doesn't mean they're equal. For example, a Lamborgini Aventador is very different from a Toyota Prius, but they're both called cars. According to your logic, they would be the same exact things, because cars are cars, which doesn't make sense at all. Different things are different.

Also, you need to ask yourself why something is immoral before claiming it is. You see, slavery is not considered immoral just because it's slavery. It is immoral because most slaves are born into slavery, and never had a chance to escape it. Slaves are usually treated very badly, and live a harsh life, without being able to change anything to it. But imperial slaves are not born as slaves, they are very well treated, and becoming a slave is always a result of their own actions. In a way, you could even call them "working inmates". Personally, if I was to be put in jail, i'd prefer paying my debt to society by working my ass off while living a better life than any prisoner who's rotting in a cell.


The only thing that truly defines your rights, is the law. If the law say you don't have the right to freedom, then you just don't. Just like someone who's in prison, you can loose your right to freedom if you're not bright enough to use it right!

Glory to the empire!!

(I love this game so much.)
I personally find low-paid employees in the federation WORSE than imperial slavery, a corporation boss couldn't care less for a father who can't pay enough food cartridges for his children, and if the boss doesn't need the father anymore, he'll fire him, the whole family will become homeless and probably DIE of starvation.
An Imperial slave owner however have the responsibility to feed his slaves, and though a slave would receive corporal punishment for not working hard enough, he knows that (unlike the federation father) his misery will be over one day, and he can live a better life afterwards.
As they say, imperial slavery is a safe net, I'd rather be a slave myself than starve to death!

Down with the feds! Long live the Empire!

There are a ton of people in the world (in non-vanilla groups) who would strongly disagree with you. There is a huge difference between a person who submits willingly and someone who is forced into it. A slave who submits willingly is still in control of themselves and is putting their lives in the responsibility of someone else. They haven't lost their liberty as you put it, because they CHOSE to give it to someone else. Compare that to a person who is either sold or blackmailed into slavery where their liberty is forcibly taken from them. I don't know much about the law of this game but as long as the imperial slaves are either criminals or people who willingly become slaves, I'm ok with it.

You defeat your own argument there. Imperial slavery is VOLUNTARY. Or are you saying you want to take away the rights of every Imperial citizen to choose to serve for a term to abolish their debt and regain honor?

 

[Midnight-shadow]

Behold!

The Empire's highly esteemed education system demonstrates its worth once again!

And your point is.....?

 

[BishopC]

I love how 4 lines of text in a computer game can make people think and discuss about things such as human rights.
That's how powerful art is. Yeah, video games are art.

Next, I want to see 4 lines saying "Female slaves", that would ignite an interesting discussion about female equality, and I would love to see the arguments from the defending side.
Can we get another statistic saying which religion a system/faction belongs to? I would love to see the players reaction when they find out the Empire is sharia islamic, the federation are fundamentalistic catholic fanatics and the Alliance is buddhist.

(When I actually think the Empire is China, complete with a lot of eunuchs if I read the forum correct, the Federation is the USA and the Alliance is the EU)

This game could be such an interesting social experiment, showing unfiltered societal reactions. Gosh, can we embed a sociology expert into FD and change ED and monitor player base reactions following changes to the code?