The real issue with credit earning IMO

[Cmdr Thrudd]

FD just shower players with credits now. When I think how long it took me to outfit my asp, or to buy a python I just cringe.

I agree and I think the reason behind all the credit buffs are to try and mitigate the cost of modules but I think instead of constantly buffing earnings reducing the modules cost would have resulted in a more balanced game with smoother progression. As I stated earlier, the early game is being trivialised by the credit buffs. I loved working my way up from a sidewinder through the small ships to an asp but now its possible to do that whole thing in a couple of hours due to the mission payouts.

 

[Glock_N_Load]

Don't concentrate on the destination so much that you miss out on the journey.

 

[Cmdr Thrudd]

As to the mission system, it's very very unbalanced the way it's done. I don't mean that in the traditional balance sense. But as a player that has only been playing for just over a year now, there is a big gap in the credits to be made, and the cost of getting into the bigger ships. Even as you rank up in your own ratings, and faction rep. The payouts don't really scale as well. It then becomes exponentially harder to get, outfit and if you're unlucky or suck, maintain your buyback buffer for the top tier ships.

And even when you do get the top tier ships, they don't really open up any new or better activities, nor any better paying ones. Now yes 200-300mil an hour is kind of outrageous. but think back to starting ED. It takes maybe an hour to three once you learn things to get out of the sidey to a half decent ship and outfit it.

But take something like the corvette or anaconda. The Annie will take most people many months or longer to get one and outfit it even remotely good. And once you get that Annie it's going to take you even longer to grind out rep just to unlock the corvette. Owning an anaconda does nothing to help that.

Then since you probably sacrificed credits earned just to earn rep, you'll then have to earn more than $500 mil, or so I've heard, to buy a corvette and kit it out fully. Buying an anaconda in no way makes this easier, and really it sets you way back, since you wasted time and hundreds of millions of credits to get and outfit it.

This is probably directly attributable to the fact ED not having traditional leveling and gating mechanics other mmo style games have. There is no new zones, or content, or missions, or gear to get when you get to a top tier ship. But also once you get what? An fdl and good sized cargo ship, your credit earning potential effectively becomes capped at that point. Progressing any farther or getting any other ship will not increase the amount of credits you can earn, because you still get the exact same missions with the exact same payouts.

Now the skimmer thing was a bit over the top. But they really need to figure out some sort of "progression" like system, in my opinion, that smooths out the gap between earning credits to get in the higher ships for the majority of the players who play average play times.

All good points, while my analysis might not be exactly the same I do understand where you're coming from. Sadly I cant rep you again just yet
You'll be pleased to know, if you don't already, that gaining naval rank is really fast now so its a good time to get that Corvette unlocked. I got my last two ranks in a few hours this week, a task that when I stopped playing last year would have taken weeks of missions or hundreds of millions in donations.

The whole skimmer thing is what got me thinking more about this issue and smoothing out the 'progression' is basically what I decided was the root cause that needed addressed with the modules being the obvious culprit.

 

[Hevak]

All good points, while my analysis might not be exactly the same I do understand where you're coming from. Sadly I cant rep you again just yet
You'll be pleased to know, if you don't already, that gaining naval rank is really fast now so its a good time to get that Corvette unlocked. I got my last two ranks in a few hours this week, a task that when I stopped playing last year would have taken weeks of missions or hundreds of millions in donations.

The whole skimmer thing is what got me thinking more about this issue and smoothing out the 'progression' is basically what I decided was the root cause that needed addressed with the modules being the obvious culprit.

Yeah this time around I was pretty lucky in the sense that I got to benefit from the latest gold rush. I had just finished my last 5 ranks in about a week for the Feds before 3.0 dropped. And from that I earned about 150 mil or so. Then I went to skimmers to get the last 350 or so to go buy and outfit the corvette.

I didn't realize you could take missions for either location and finish at one, and I don't care either way. I went and got what I needed for what I wanted and then moved on to working on my ship. If another gold rush pops up and I needs creds for something I'll go get what I need again.

Funny side note. First shake down of the vette, I found out she blows up really nice like. Lol I forget the shield cells, and well it's no engineered at all yet. And yeah I sucks no matter what ship I'm in lol. [up]

 

[GraXXoR]

Personally, I think they got the price order E-A wrong.

IMO it should be priced in this order:

E C B D A

With B having double the integrity instead of +10% (since they weigh double).

If this was the module cost order you’d see a lot more C rated modules.

Also. IMO, The progression was fine initially. I went from sidewinder to Anaconda in just over a year. I just think the game is trying to reach an audience it wasn’t originally targeted at. The DDFs were skewed towards the older, more patient, deeper learning curve and deferred rewards and manageable risk crowd. But actually the demographic has shifted towards those wanting a story, handholding and instant gratification.

 

[GraXXoR]

The whole point of A-rated equipment is that it's overpriced. E is basic, D is light, C is efficient, B is powerful (but inefficient) and A is the best of everything at a crazy, stupid premium price. The crazy, stupid premium price is the point of A-rank. If it's not stupid costly, then there's no point having it.


And on a different note, I posted this in one of the other threads, but I'll say again here... there should be significant costs to using a big ship. In the previous Elite games you had to pay a crew - and that would be a good start in E-D. There was a reason only governments and globe spanning organizations like the East India Trading Company had War Galleons... the cost of running them was so darn high. Taking a Corvette, Cutter or Anaconda out of the dock should require a major investment from the Commander that requires cost up front.
Basically missions in the big ships need a total rework. They should offer millions (even hundreds of millions) as a reward, but there should be millions put in up front beyond the costs of the ship itself.

I’ve stated this countless times. Big ships in this game are oversized. They have only 4~5 times to power output of a sidewinder, so there’s no reason for them to have been so big.

The big ships are just that, big. They have “ planetary bombardment” G4 plasma accelerators that can’t single shot a Cobra.

The big ships are priced correctly but handle like dog fighters and are far too lightly armed and armored. They should be not just big, but heavy, slow and require a NPC crew to function.

 

[Cmdr Thrudd]

Personally, I think they got the price order E-A wrong.

IMO it should be priced in this order:

E C B D A

With B having double the integrity instead of +10% (since they weigh double).

If this was the module cost order you’d see a lot more C rated modules.

Yeah I think the modules themselves could do with a rethink. I wasn't sure though about stating much on that in the OP as I was concerned it would muddy my core point a bit, which it did with a few posters from the little I did post.
I do think the current rating system doesn't make much sense, it's a throwback to alpha/beta (I cant recall exactly when we got the module system) but I recall we had a few weapons with special effects for a while and I think the rating system was going to allow them to differentiate them within same class. That got dropped but we retained the A-E weapon ratings even though they are pretty redundant. I'm guessing they kept A-E as its pretty easy to interpret, more so than labels like premium, sturdy, lightweight etc

 

[IndigoWyrd]

I dont think you've understood what I'm saying.

Don't take this the wrong way, but I don't think you do either.

 

[Ch3ck]

Ohh RLY!

Sorry man, but the claims that it's too hard to make money are bulldung. I made the money for an A grade corvette by bounty hunting. This was before the ridiculous payouts for everything came into being. Even then bounty hunting was the poor cousin compared to the "massive" 10m/hour people were making trading, but I can't stand trading so that was never going to be an option. It took about a month to do, which I don't consider unreasonable in a game that's not supposed to be completed in a 10 hour play-through like most console games.

It's even easier now that missions pay heaps and wanted ships drop 400K bounties.

The problem is that people think they need a corvette/anaconda/cutter. There's nothing you can't do in a smaller ship except move 1000T of cargo in one go.

The only thing that this concludes is that your have TOO MUCH time in your hands and NO RL responsibilities of any sort. If you spend 1 month grinding bounty missions to get a Grade A corvette you pretty much did it in record time with bounty missions.

Was this FUN for you, great men keep at it! Guess what is fun for me, to actually have enough credits to get a proper ship (doesn't have to be a corvette since you need HUGE ammounts of rep and time, which you obviously have plenty off) and start enjoying other features of the game.

For me the game starts when everything you need to be done to the ship is done, from modules to engineering.

If I spend the amount of time to spend in a single month to get that It will take me 1 year!


Why is credits so important when the true game is playing different roles not spending a SECOND LIFE grinding to get the "proper" ship so that you CAN START having fun.


Seems to me you are being very unfair on your point of view based on your life style!

 

[metatheurgist]

Dude, you don't need a corvette to play the game. It's my least used ship. I'm mostly in my Viper 4. That's the real issue, people have these wonderful dreams of the game becoming life-changing just as soon as they have a big 3. It's always the same, I can't wait to start x, y, z as soon as I have cutter/anaconda/corvette. Crazy idea, start playing the game now.

 

[Ian Doncaster]

In the previous Elite games you had to pay a crew - and that would be a good start in E-D.

In the previous Elite games, if you bought the biggest ship and paid all your crew the maximum salary (and they'd usually accept half that), you'd be paying approximately 300 credits per jump on a ship which cost 2.7 million credits to buy and was capable of making that price back in reasonable time.

The crew costs were flavour, like having to pay for fuel is in Elite Dangerous.

The problem is that people think they need a corvette/anaconda/cutter. There's nothing you can't do in a smaller ship except move 1000T of cargo in one go.

Entirely true. So why are the larger ships so much more expensive, then? The fact that a doubling (if that) of capability adds an extra zero to the price is the exact problem identified in the original post.

which I don't consider unreasonable in a game that's not supposed to be completed in a 10 hour play-through like most console games.

Thing is, that was also true of the three previous games in the series, which people also played for years ... and they were very quick about letting you get to the top of the outfitting tree if you wanted.

Elite: if you knew what you were doing with trade - and of course, no-one did to start with back then because there wasn't a famous Youtuber to tell you "trade Computers and Furs", you had to work it out with bits of paper - you could make enough money to fully outfit your ship in a day. While still probably only being Mostly Harmless.

FE2/FFE: you could trade up to a Panther Clipper - combat-free on the Sol-Barnard's loop - pretty quickly. Took a little while to get out of the first few ships but once you had a Cobra the money just rolled in. (I tended to go for approaches with more combat, but still usually had enough for a Panther before I was Competent - modern-day Master/Broker/Pathfinder - rank)

Elite Dangerous: if you get all the money from Combat Elite or Exploration Elite, you still won't have enough to afford any of the biggest ships in the game with A-rated outfitting. If you go for Trade Elite instead you'll have the money to buy one. If you get Triple Elite (even if you throw in CQC Elite for an extra 20 million credits...), you'll still be stretching your resources to buy and A-rate two of them.

 

[John Xenir]

No thanks. I like that you have to work to get the A rated modules on the bigger ships - it gives a sense of "pride and accomplishment" (thanks EA).

I don't want a "I win" button.

I too like to work for A-rated modules...


... but an 8A scoop being more expensive than the ship itself is ridiculous, to put it lightly.

EDIT: Let's put that into perspective: a ship, containing state-of-the-art Friendship Drive allowing FTL travel between solar systems, life support system allowing indefinite oxygen generation, super-advanced three-dimensional computer capable of establishing ship's position anywhere in the known galaxy, power generator with an output energy sufficient to supply time-space bending.

All this is cheaper than a bloody fuel scoop - which is pretty much just that - scoop. What in the actual hell?

 

[AbsinthSvK]

No thanks. I like that you have to work to get the A rated modules on the bigger ships - it gives a sense of "pride and accomplishment" (thanks EA).

I don't want a "I win" button.

then dont press it. Go and take worst paying mission on board when you need play it hard way.

They aren't pointless. They are there to use in progression.

Also A modules aren't required to play the game.

game hasn't real progression and people making they own like MODULES are progression .

 

[Marc_Hicks]

Buy ships and modules in systems with discounts to bring down the costs yourself?

This is one of the reasons why I want to be able to "Call in Favours" with factions. Got that one ship you desperately want, but currently can't afford it? Well maybe you can sacrifice some of your hard-earned rank, with the Station Owner, in order to obtain a discount. Same with modules.....but only.for a limited time.

Favours could also be used as a means of negotiating for "better" payouts. More credits for a specific mission, or maybe specific materials you're after.

 

[Shiro Akai]

Also A modules aren't required to play the game.

You can also do your jugging barefoot. But having shoes make it more enjoyable.

OP has some merit in his claim. For one high ship module costs are a goal to achieve. For other high module cost is a hindrance that limit their choice. Past certain point (which is somewhere between Asp and Python) you stop playing the game you want and start to play the game you must to afford things for the game you want.

 

[CMDR Cosmic Spacehead]

I don't see any problems with earning credits.

You don't have to have everything immediately.

 

[Lily from anim.o.v.e]

I’ve stated this countless times. Big ships in this game are oversized. They have only 4~5 times to power output of a sidewinder, so there’s no reason for them to have been so big.

The big ships are just that, big. They have “ planetary bombardment” G4 plasma accelerators that can’t single shot a Cobra.

The big ships are priced correctly but handle like dog fighters and are far too lightly armed and armored. They should be not just big, but heavy, slow and require a NPC crew to function.

The issue is a bad scaling for the PD and PP classes. look at cutter vs courvette, just that one class difference makes a HUGE differenc ein output for firepower. Engineers due to beign % based enhancements make this even worse.

Strangely, shields and hulls for some reasons are not bound to armor classes or shield classes they have gotten a "magical" ships multiplier for balance reasons. I guess the same would be needed for PP and PD. And yes it's strange that a sidey by default is 25t and a C4 plasma is 16t. That wepaon alone would by logic eat probably more energy than the sidey and put a plain hole into one as well. So logical scaling is indeed very much gone. How was Brabens Vision?

How was that?
"It's always been a core vision of David Braben that the player is a person in a real futuristic setting, not just a ship."

Dunno, I miss that "real" thingy. because you need to ignore a load handwavium floating around you and a lot realsitical gaps.

 

[metatheurgist]

Elite Dangerous: if you get all the money from Combat Elite or Exploration Elite, you still won't have enough to afford any of the biggest ships in the game with A-rated outfitting. If you go for Trade Elite instead you'll have the money to buy one. If you get Triple Elite (even if you throw in CQC Elite for an extra 20 million credits...), you'll still be stretching your resources to buy and A-rate two of them.

Er...except that's exactly what I did. I made my first billion doing nothing but bounty hunting. When the 400-500K bounties you can get now were a dream.