The Reverand's Daily RANT

[RevCaoticFox]

About this new Generation Ship: I have to admit, when I first saw it on YouTube, I genuinely wanted to HELP, I even yelled to my wife, to come see, proceeding to tell her that I WANT TO HELP THEM. Eagerly I log in, only to see Obsidian's video, announcing that it may very well be an I.I. (CG). Then I B-Line to the Mission Board, and there it is... CG, HELP THEM OUT!!! My heart SUNK. They are in Upaniklis? Barely outside the Bubble? They've been drifting through populated space, for a thousand of years, and... nobody's seen them? No one has happened to scan this thing? A thousand years, and it's out in the parking lot? I understand that the method of travel is slower, but our methods of scanning aren't THIS BAD. I was expecting this thing to have been found remotely located 1500 LY in a given direction, and was anxious to AID THESE PEOPLE!!! Now, I'm angry at them, WHY ARE THEY CALLING US? Wal*Mart is 4 Ls away!!! Can they only transmit? Can they not receive? Has TIME stopped within this ship? Has there been NO TECHNOLOGICAL advancements in 1000 years? Did they not STOP ANYWHERE??? There have been 374 highly trafficked areas within their path, how did they go unnoticed? Weren't they supposed to be looking for somewhere to SETTLE? Are they blind? 374 Earthlike worlds in their DIRECT PATH!!! In a thousand years... Do they deserve to even reintegrate if they're this inadequate? How were THESE our HOPE??? I have 30 more points, but this is getting WAY TOO LONG as is... TL;DR (apologies... I want Hot Cocoa).

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgM_tiw8tng

 

[Maro-Val]

Its a mess from where ever you look at it. Just appeared there and boom.. interstellar initiative which is basically cg's. And whats the reward, i bet something unique like.. a decal lol.
I guess it doesn't get any deeper.

 

[Old Duck]

IMO it shouldn't be too far from Sol, in some uninhabited system (like the other generation ships). Aren't generation ships from before FTL? No way as ship could make it that far out using normal thrusters.

I was excited when I thought this was another TRUE generation ship that was found like the others. When I discovered it's just a plot mechanic for another Interstellar Initiative, I was truly disappointed, especially for some of the reasons the OP brings up.

 

[Morbad]

I completely understand the criticisms behind the lack of player agency and shallowness of our interactions, but...

They've been drifting through populated space, for a thousand of years, and... nobody's seen them?

Space is big and mostly empty.

I understand that the method of travel is slower, but our methods of scanning aren't THIS BAD.

Yes, they are.

Has there been NO TECHNOLOGICAL advancements in 1000 years?

Technological advancement is contingent on many factors, including the size of the society involved and necessity. I would not expect an isolated community to advance as much, or along the same lines as the rest of humanity, and the real-world has many examples of this; most uncontacted peoples are still using stone age tools.

They probably don't even know how current (ED) communications tech can work. The only reason we can recieve their signals is because we are aware of their comms protocols and have scanners to retrieve it. Evidently we can't transmit on those frequencies...probably because no one figured it would be necessary. After all, archeologists rarely expect to encounter living example of the ancient peoples they are studying.

Did they not STOP ANYWHERE???

Can't just stop a generation ship. It probably used half it's fuel accelerating toward then the other half accelerating in the opposite direction to insert itself into orbit around it's desitnation.

There have been 374 highly trafficked areas within their path, how did they go unnoticed? Weren't they supposed to be looking for somewhere to SETTLE? Are they blind? 374 Earthlike worlds in their DIRECT PATH!!! In a thousand years... Do they deserve to even reintegrate if they're this inadequate? How were THESE our HOPE??? I have 30 more points, but this is getting WAY TOO LONG as is... TL;DR (apologies... I want Hot Cocoa).

Destination would be determined, and largely set in stone, well before the mission began.

The ship likely doesn't have the equipment to discover planet sized bodies, nor the fuel to change it's destination even if it could find an alternate one.

Most of those worlds are also new, terraformed ones, that would not have been habitable during the planning stage of the original mission.

 

[RevCaoticFox]

I completely understand the criticisms behind the lack of player agency and shallowness of our interactions, but...



Space is big and mostly empty.



Yes, they are.



Technological advancement is contingent on many factors, including the size of the society involved and necessity. I would not expect an isolated community to advance as much, or along the same lines as the rest of humanity, and the real-world has many examples of this; most uncontacted peoples are still using stone age tools.

They probably don't even know how current (ED) communications tech can work. The only reason we can recieve their signals is because we are aware of their comms protocols and have scanners to retrieve it. Evidently we can't transmit on those frequencies...probably because no one figured it would be necessary. After all, archeologists rarely expect to encounter living example of the ancient peoples they are studying.



Can't just stop a generation ship. It probably used half it's fuel accelerating toward then the other half accelerating in the opposite direction to insert itself into orbit around it's desitnation.



Destination would be determined, and largely set in stone, well before the mission began.

The ship likely doesn't have the equipment to discover planet sized bodies, nor the fuel to change it's destination even if it could find an alternate one.

Most of those worlds are also new, terraformed ones, that would not have been habitable during the planning stage of the original mission.

needed u in the discussion

 

[Dillon Fallon]

They've probably been watching all those 1000 year old films about what normally happens when a large group of people finds a small group of technologically inferior people. I'd lock the door initially as well.

 

[Cmdr_Ajay31091]

Dude!, its all just pretend.. Don't be giving yourself a hernia.... Lol

o7
(I agree, by the way.. Mostly)

 

[Old Duck]

Dude!, its all just pretend.. Don't be giving yourself a hernia.... Lol

Materials are massless and G-forces don't matter in this game - it's impossible to get a hernia!

 

[Demsit]

What Morbad said.

Also

Has there been NO TECHNOLOGICAL advancements in 1000 years?

Science needs heavy and energy - consuming equipment and vast amounts of ressources to experiment with. Sometimes dangerous stuff, too. Makes no sense to take that with you on a mission that's costly enough already. In fact they are lucky if they didn't lose most of the less important knowledge that had no immediate use after a few hundred years of isolation.

Actually it's more unrealistic that their language seemingly didn't change at all.

Also I'd keep the door shut, too. Both the risk to spread their disease to us, and the risk to catch a disease from us that we are immune against (and they not) make that the only logical option.

 

[Vasious]

Did they not STOP ANYWHERE???

&

There have been 374 highly trafficked areas within their path, how did they go unnoticed? Weren't they supposed to be looking for somewhere to SETTLE? Are they blind? 374 Earthlike worlds in their DIRECT PATH!!! In a thousand years... Do they deserve to even reintegrate if they're this inadequate? How were THESE our HOPE??? I have 30 more points, but this is getting WAY TOO LONG as is... TL;DR (apologies... I want Hot Cocoa).

They deliberately choose to stay on the ship and pass by their destination,

They don't want to be reintegrated

 

[Vasious]

IMO it shouldn't be too far from Sol, in some uninhabited system (like the other generation ships). Aren't generation ships from before FTL? No way as ship could make it that far out using normal thrusters.

It had a thousand years to make it 172 or so light years, and is not the furthest out

 

[thistle]

It's my favourite thing. Need any cheese?

 

[Vandaahl]

Maybe they're are just a bit finicky about who comes to their aid.

I mean try to imagine; you have been away from any civilized contact for years and years. You post a message on facebook you need help, and the first one to appear is Kenneth McGrew shouting "YOU GUYS THINK YOU HAVE A PROBLEM??! WAIT UNTIL I TELL YOU ABOUT SMALL SEISMIC CHARGES" through their letter slot. I would start my engines again and jog on.

 

[Rick6549]

Maybe they're are just a bit finicky about who comes to their aid.

I mean try to imagine; you have been away from any civilized contact for years and years. You post a message on facebook you need help, and the first one to appear is Kenneth McGrew shouting "YOU GUYS THINK YOU HAVE A PROBLEM??! WAIT UNTIL I TELL YOU ABOUT SMALL SEISMIC CHARGES" through their letter slot. I would start my engines again and jog on.

@Kenneth Mcgrew


And then, suddenly, you get 23 messages stating why the beluga is the ship they should replace the gen ship with

 

[Vandaahl]

And then, suddenly, you get 23 messages stating why the beluga is the ship they should replace the gen ship with

Chortles
The sight of that thing alone would be enough to never come back again

 

[Old Duck]

And then, suddenly, you get 23 messages stating why the beluga is the ship they should replace the gen ship with

That was until they heard about Elephant Butt Leather, and that's when they decided to stay on their generation ship.

 

[babelfisch]

I believe this thread highlights why we can't have good things. We destroy them immediately with logic. If I would apply the same rational to every game I played, they all wouldn't make much sense. Of course there is nothing wrong with discussing plot holes, it just shouldn't be considered as feedback.

 

[Chaparral]

I think the generation ship set pieces and voice acting are awesome.

But what tool of a designer places this much effort into a set piece and does not build mechanics around it?

I think about the station scenarios (pretty much out of reach for new players or players flying small ships), half the time bugged giving you a bounty when you shoot the side you're supposed to shoot, goid attacked megaships with similar bugginess (for me anyway), CZs that populate half of the time, and I have my answer. FDEV cannot manage gameplay mechanics around these set pieces very well.

Is the only functional event-based tool in ED software the CG? I think yes.

 

[Rick6549]

Chortles
The sight of that thing alone would be enough to never come back again

They would be so amazed they wouldnt need to come back

 

[MK Regular]

IMO it shouldn't be too far from Sol, in some uninhabited system (like the other generation ships). Aren't generation ships from before FTL? No way as ship could make it that far out using normal thrusters.

Upaniklis is ~172 ly from Sol. If we assume that the Galconda launched from Sol exactly 1000 years ago, they have been traveling at an everage speed of 0.172c. If we further assume that they have been doing continuous thruster burns for the full duration of the trip and spent the first half of the trip doing an acceleration burn and the second half of the trip doing a deceleration burn, we end up with the Galconda accelerating to a velocity of 0.344c (or 103.2 Mm/s) in the space of 500 years and then spending the next 500 years decelerating. Therefore, the average acceleration of the ship is 206.4 km/s per year, or 565 m/s per day, or 23.55 m/s per hour, or about 0.00067g.

So yeah, being able to get as far away as they have in 1000 years is completely doable, provided that you have enough thruster propellant to do it. Of course, we can actually calculate how much propellant is needed using the rocket equiation:

Delta V = exhaust velocity * ln (initial mass / final mass)

Where the total Delta V is double the maximum velocity (we need to accelerate and decelerate after all). The rocket equation can be rearranged to find the mass of the fuel needed:

final mass * e^(Delta V / exhaust velocity) - final mass = fuel mass

The main determining factor here is how high the exhaust velocity is. For example, if we have an exhaust velocity of 10% of the speed of light, we end up with:

fuel mass = 972 * final mass

Whereas if we have an exhaust velocity of 20% of the speed of light, we end up with:

fuel mass = 30.2 * final mass

Simply doubling the exhaust velocity reduces the amount of fuel needed by an entire order of magnitude. With a little bit of handwavium and late 21st or early 22nd century tech, we can assume that the the exhaust velocity is half of the speed of light and end up with a fairly reasonable fuel fraction:

fuel mass = 2.96 * final mass

Of course, all of this assumes that the Galconda spent 1000 years continuously firing her main thrusters, so the actual fuel requirements are probably significantly lower if she could obtain a reasonable level of acceleration or if her trip was longer than 1000 years. For example, if we assume that the Galconda could accelerate at 0.01g (about 0.1 m/s per second), she would only need to spend 33 years accelerating, at which point she could drift at 0.172c for the next 1000 years and spend another 33 years decelerating, and would only need 1/3 of the fuel that she would otherwise need (assuming exhaust velocity is still 0.5c).