General / Off-Topic The safest place

[Han_Zen]

There is enough of the rest of the World as potential customer when the 800million people who think they ARE the World stop buying from China...more than enough...

Not really. It doesn't take many percent of lost imports, before their growth slows.
Much of China's economic success is due to their ability to help foreign companies establish production there. They are very good at this.
These production facilities are often joint venture, between the foreign company and a public owned, private Chinese company. This practise is smooth and gives foreign operators lots of benefits. The Chinese side of the venture will usually provide land, buildings and work force (often the farmers that owned / lived on the land, before the factory was built).
Works great as long as production isn't forced home.

 

[Stealthie]

Not really. It doesn't take many percent of lost imports, before their growth slows.
Much of China's economic success is due to their ability to help foreign companies establish production there. They are very good at this.
These production facilities are often joint venture, between the foreign company and a public owned, private Chinese company. This practise is smooth and gives foreign operators lots of benefits. The Chinese side of the venture will usually provide land, buildings and work force (often the farmers that owned / lived on the land, before the factory was built).
Works great as long as production isn't forced home.

Interestingly, Chinese law dictates that any Chinese manufacturing facility that is making things for a foreign company gains the rights to make the same item independantly too.

There's a lot of talk about "chinese knock-offs" but the truth is that if a Western company has employed a Chinese company to make something for them, they've gifted the rights to make that item to the Chinese company.

Companies in the West, basically, rely on "brand recognition" to retain their market place and Chinese companies, in turn, are currently happy to earn their profits simply from manufacturing rather than having the hassle of exporting and marketing their "knock-off" products in the West directly.

It could be argued that it's incredibly short-sighted for Western companies to compromise their IP and manufacturing skills in return for maximised profits in the short-term.
I guess that's part of what drives our current economic state, though.
We invent stuff, we get the Chinese to make it for us and then we try to invent new, improved, stuff before Chinese companies can saturate the market with cheap versions of the original stuff.

 

[Oldviboy]

Surely you're not suggesting that China isn't really interested in retaining it's status as a supplier to the Western world?

that's obvious, but, "other" countries don't want the same thing or is it just China? OMG tells me how many "Am" fast food outlets and other stores and brands are scattered around the world, the funny thing is that many of those brands use cheap Chinese labor to get rich.
And that's just a small example.

But of course, now that China has grown economically, it is the world's evil,and some seem to resent their position, while remaining blind to other nations.
Sure you not suggesting that other nations aren´t really interested to remain the world's leading power and / or saviors of the world?

 

[Stealthie]

that's obvious, but, "other" countries don't want the same thing or is it just China? OMG tells me how many "Am" fast food outlets and other stores and brands are scattered around the world, the funny thing is that many of those brands use cheap Chinese labor to get rich.
And that's just a small example.

Sorry but, once again, I just don't understand what this means.

But of course, now that China has grown economically, it is the world's evil,and some seem to resent their position, while remaining blind to other nations.
Sure you not suggesting that other nations aren´t really interested to remain the world's leading power and / or saviors of the world?

China is a terrible country in many ways.
The idea that it should be held up as an example of anything - aside from economic success - is laughable.

I spent two years living in China and I've spent 10 years working for a Chinese company.
If you want to have a conversation about how things work in China, I'm up for it but I suspect a lot of what I might say would go beyond this forum's rules.

 

[Oldviboy]

Interestingly, Chinese law dictates that any Chinese manufacturing facility that is making things for a foreign company gains the rights to make the same item independantly too.

There's a lot of talk about "chinese knock-offs" but the truth is that if a Western company has employed a Chinese company to make something for them, they've gifted the rights to make that item to the Chinese company.

Companies in the West, basically, rely on "brand recognition" to retain their market place and Chinese companies, in turn, are currently happy to earn their profits simply from manufacturing rather than having the hassle of exporting and marketing their "knock-off" products in the West directly.

It could be argued that it's incredibly short-sighted for Western companies to compromise their IP and manufacturing skills in return for maximised profits in the short-term.
I guess that's part of what drives our current economic state, though.
We invent stuff, we get the Chinese to make it for us and then we try to invent new, improved, stuff before Chinese companies can saturate the market with cheap versions of the original stuff.

I think the Chinese have been smarter while other countries are just looking to enrich themselves to invest in weapons for the Galactic Mandalorian wars or something.

 

[Oldviboy]

Sorry but, once again, I just don't understand what this means.



China is a terrible country in many ways..

tell me just one country that doesn't have something that smells.

 

[Stealthie]

I think the Chinese have been smarter while other countries are just looking to enrich themselves to invest in weapons for the Galactic Mandalorian wars or something.

Nah,

Other countries are just out to make a fast buck and China is willing to help with that... for now.

I don't doubt that China's growth does have some kind of "Phase 3" planned, and when that happens the rest of the world is probably going to be in trouble if we carry on as we are.

 

[Stealthie]

tell me just one country that doesn't have something that smells.

Most countries have "something that smells".

China is a country that has the smell of up to 45 million corpses, endemic corruption, oppression and dictatorship.

China smells worse than the vast majority of other countries on the planet.

 

[Oldviboy]

The idea that it should be held up as an example of anything - aside from economic success - is laughable.

It is an example in ancient culture, among other things, other "cultures" are just babies in history, and I would be surprised if they ever turn at least 1,000 years old.
China is always recovering.

 

[Oldviboy]

Most countries have "something that smells".

China is a country that has the smell of up to 45 million corpses, endemic corruption, oppression and dictatorship.

China smells worse than the vast majority of other countries on the planet.

whatever you say, but apparently what happens in china stays in china(about dictatorship), I cannot say the same of other countries to which his poppo has splashed half the world.

 

[Stealthie]

It is an example in ancient culture, among other things, other "cultures" are just babies in history, and I would be surprised if they ever turn at least 1,000 years old.

whatever you say, but apparently what happens in china stays in china(about dictatorship), I cannot say the same of other countries to which his poppo has splashed half the world.

Contradicting yourself there - probably without realising it.

I have no idea if you're referring to the USA or not but if the USA spent every day of it's existence engaged in military expansionism, it'd need another couple of millennia before it equalled China in that regard.

 

[Oldviboy]

Contradicting yourself there - probably without realising it.

No,I am not interested in their politics at all, instead their culture is very interesting, and because of everything they have gone through, therefore there is no contradiction there.

it'd need another couple of millennia before it equalled China in that regard.
[/QUOTE]
exactly,Something that other countries do not understand, you are on the right track ... by the way, has the speech ended that Russia was the world's evil, is it China now?

I think that when someone points to multiple enemies, maybe the problem is himself.

 

[Ian Phillips]

Thats enough on this please.

 

[Han_Zen]

To change the tone a bit on Covid-19 blame, I'm going to clam that the SARS Cov2 is man made. Humanity is to blame for the virus. It's not something that just happens in nature.

The Corona virus came to existence because humans do not respect nature in general and wild animals in particular. When you put lost of live wild animals in cages, next to domestic live animals and throw in a bunch of humans, you create a virus infirmary. A nasty virus will pop out every five to ten years.

If we call this natural, we are on the wrong track. If we take the 'we should't pass blame' attitude, we turn a blind eye to unacceptable practices.

This doesn't just happen in east Asia. It's not that many years ago the Mad Cow disease was transferred to humans, due to unacceptable practises in European agriculture.

We have to blame those that are responsible. This time the responsible are in China. Not because China is evil. Because unethical and unnatural practises once again lead to a deadly virus.
If the virus had come from the UK , we should have blamed the UK. Not because they used to colonise half the world, but because they allowed farms to feed cows with scrapie-infected sheep meat.

If we accept these practises to avoid upsetting someone, we have our self to blame for the pandemic.

 

[Stealthie]

This doesn't just happen in east Asia. It's not that many years ago the Mad Cow disease was transferred to humans, due to unacceptable practises in European agriculture.

We have to blame those that are responsible. This time the responsible are in China. Not because China is evil. Because unethical and unnatural practises once again lead to a deadly virus.
If the virus had come from the UK , we should have blamed the UK. Not because they used to colonise half the world, but because they allowed farms to feed cows with scrapie-infected sheep meat.

See, this is the reason I'm against calls for retribution and reimbursement - unless there's clear evidence of reckless incompetence and/or malicious intent.

It's fine for some people to wail about China, right now, but next time it could just as easily be Britain generating BSE, foot & mouth in a European country or a virulent strain of Salmonella from the USA.
What happens then?
Do we hold each other to account in the same way that some people want China held to account?
As I already said, if we think China is being evasive now, the entire world is only going to become less truthful if nations start refusing to cooperate for fear of getting blamed for things.

To be clear, I've got nothing against people expressing criticism of any nation, group or individual but calls for more substantive retribution are just silly.

 

[Synkreto]

To change the tone a bit on Covid-19 blame, I'm going to clam that the SARS Cov2 is man made. Humanity is to blame for the virus. It's not something that just happens in nature.

The Corona virus came to existence because humans do not respect nature in general and wild animals in particular. When you put lost of live wild animals in cages, next to domestic live animals and throw in a bunch of humans, you create a virus infirmary. A nasty virus will pop out every five to ten years.

If we call this natural, we are on the wrong track. If we take the 'we should't pass blame' attitude, we turn a blind eye to unacceptable practices.

This doesn't just happen in east Asia. It's not that many years ago the Mad Cow disease was transferred to humans, due to unacceptable practises in European agriculture.

We have to blame those that are responsible. This time the responsible are in China. Not because China is evil. Because unethical and unnatural practises once again lead to a deadly virus.
If the virus had come from the UK , we should have blamed the UK. Not because they used to colonise half the world, but because they allowed farms to feed cows with scrapie-infected sheep meat.

If we accept these practises to avoid upsetting someone, we have our self to blame for the pandemic.

Maybe some time for introspection ?

5 Reasons We Play the Blame Game

When something goes wrong in your life, is your first reaction to blame someone else? If so, you’re engaging in the very common behavior of the blame game.

www.psychologytoday.com

How To Stop the Blame Game

Executives of the three companies at the heart of the recent massive Gulf oil spill were grilled by lawmakers this week in back-to-back Senate inquiries. Instead of accepting responsibility, however, they fell over each other in attempts to shift the blame. No one was impressed. Playing the...

hbr.org

 

[Robin of Spiritwood]

Reluctant to post this. Be skeptical. Ok. Here we go.

Turning to the viral genetics and proteonomics, for a moment, as interesting as the informed geopolitics is... I have not fully verified the material for myself, because reading gene code manually at 3 am is tough. The areas I covered check out, claims made are by others not me.

"There is a detailed but unsubstantiated source with an interesting claim. " <- that is a sentence. It is also just a collection of letters, like genetic code, but it has a meaning when you read it.
Imagine it is the code for Sars Cov 2, the virus giving us hell.

If we change one letter randomly, over time it would turn to gibberish. But it's possible to come up with a whole new sentence, with a new meaning. That is analogous to a new species.

Sars Cov 2 is believed to come from a bat virus RaTG13. One sentence became another, randomly. Some minor things: no surviving samples of that virus. We do have the gene code.

"However, RaTG13 was sampled from a different province of China (Yunnan) to where COVID-19 first appeared and the level of genome sequence divergence between SARS-CoV-2 and RaTG13 is equivalent to an average of 50 years (and at least 20 years) of evolutionary change."

- https://www.sciencealert.com/here-s...k-of-the-coronavirus-was-made-in-a-lab-rumour

Ok, that means it would take 50 years of random code changes to get the SARS-CoV-2 virus from the precursor RaTG13. We would normally expect changes to each word.

But that is not what we see.

The chunk of code for the e protein is identical in both viruses, with zero changes

Imagine you actually took a paragraph or a page of text, started switching out the letters and got a new version 50 years later. It contains the whole phrase:
" unsubstantiated source with an interesting claim." - completely unchanged!
That would be weird, right? No silent point mutations ( minor misspellings) even? Perfectly identical code?

Nobody is looking at the structural envelope protein. They are looking at things inside and the fancy S protein outside.

Like if you get mail, you see what's inside, maybe look at the Stamp, which is the analogy for S protein. And ignore the structural boring envelope.

Imagine you got mail purporting to be from all over the world, with different stamps, and different letters, but somehow all the envelopes were tha same size, same paper, same fibres, same spectroscopy, - immediately you'd smell the scam, right? All the envelopes are from one store.

The code for the e protein has been plugged in after the other changes.
The other stuff finagled imperfectly to look natural. It is engineered. And it is covered up. But they forgot the envelope.

And guess what?
The e genetic code is mutating in the wild in 4 months. There are 4 point mutations listed now. You want us to believe that NO changes occurred in 50 years, but suddenly now, it's running at one mutation per month?

I am too incapacitated to persue the details to verify the claim. But it seems that even the code for RaTG13 is suspect. It's not an actual sample, just a text string.
The work on it is performed by first making the genes in labs.

Where did this code come from?

Shi Zhengli. O yea. Who else?

The same lady doing "Gain of Function" research on corona viruses. We are informed that the Wuhan lab isn't to blame because an investigation exonerated them - an investigation by Shi Zhengli.

‘Batwoman’ virologist defends Wuhan lab

She has been dubbed “Batwoman” by her colleagues after years of virus-hunting expeditions in bat caves around China led to exciting discoveries about SARS and other coronavirus strains in her lab.

www.news.com.au

Nothing to see here, guys. Shi is not defecting with files.

China’s ‘Bat Woman’ Shi Zhengli refutes rumor of ‘defecting with intelligence files’ - Global Times

www.globaltimes.cn

And the Chinese are not kidnapping her because she might be defecting, or sending sleepers to snuff out research at Pittsburgh University.

Murder mystery: Slain Chinese researcher on the verge of 'significant findings'

Dr Bing Liu was killed in an apparent murder-suicide as he closed in on Covid-19 finding.

www.nzherald.co.nz

Totally just a random murder suicide. Must be a lover's spat.

Aftrr all, even Pompeo is backing away now.

A Timeline Of The COVID-19 Wuhan Lab Origin Theory

The theory that COVID-19 originated in a lab in Wuhan has emerged as a highly contentious claim since the outbreak began.

www.forbes.com

 

[Han_Zen]

Maybe some time for introspection ?

5 Reasons We Play the Blame Game

When something goes wrong in your life, is your first reaction to blame someone else? If so, you’re engaging in the very common behavior of the blame game.

www.psychologytoday.com

How To Stop the Blame Game

Executives of the three companies at the heart of the recent massive Gulf oil spill were grilled by lawmakers this week in back-to-back Senate inquiries. Instead of accepting responsibility, however, they fell over each other in attempts to shift the blame. No one was impressed. Playing the...

hbr.org

I’m not shifting any blame. I blame in all directions.

 

[[VR] optimal_909]

Reluctant to post this. Be skeptical. Ok. Here we go.

Turning to the viral genetics and proteonomics, for a moment, as interesting as the informed geopolitics is... I have not fully verified the material for myself, because reading gene code manually at 3 am is tough. The areas I covered check out, claims made are by others not me.

"There is a detailed but unsubstantiated source with an interesting claim. " <- that is a sentence. It is also just a collection of letters, like genetic code, but it has a meaning when you read it.
Imagine it is the code for Sars Cov 2, the virus giving us hell.

If we change one letter randomly, over time it would turn to gibberish. But it's possible to come up with a whole new sentence, with a new meaning. That is analogous to a new species.

Sars Cov 2 is believed to come from a bat virus RaTG13. One sentence became another, randomly. Some minor things: no surviving samples of that virus. We do have the gene code.

- https://www.sciencealert.com/here-s...k-of-the-coronavirus-was-made-in-a-lab-rumour

Ok, that means it would take 50 years of random code changes to get the SARS-CoV-2 virus from the precursor RaTG13. We would normally expect changes to each word.

But that is not what we see.

The chunk of code for the e protein is identical in both viruses, with zero changes

Imagine you actually took a paragraph or a page of text, started switching out the letters and got a new version 50 years later. It contains the whole phrase:
" unsubstantiated source with an interesting claim." - completely unchanged!
That would be weird, right? No silent point mutations ( minor misspellings) even? Perfectly identical code?

Nobody is looking at the structural envelope protein. They are looking at things inside and the fancy S protein outside.

Like if you get mail, you see what's inside, maybe look at the Stamp, which is the analogy for S protein. And ignore the structural boring envelope.

Imagine you got mail purporting to be from all over the world, with different stamps, and different letters, but somehow all the envelopes were tha same size, same paper, same fibres, same spectroscopy, - immediately you'd smell the scam, right? All the envelopes are from one store.

The code for the e protein has been plugged in after the other changes.
The other stuff finagled imperfectly to look natural. It is engineered. And it is covered up. But they forgot the envelope.

And guess what?
The e genetic code is mutating in the wild in 4 months. There are 4 point mutations listed now. You want us to believe that NO changes occurred in 50 years, but suddenly now, it's running at one mutation per month?

I am too incapacitated to persue the details to verify the claim. But it seems that even the code for RaTG13 is suspect. It's not an actual sample, just a text string.
The work on it is performed by first making the genes in labs.

Where did this code come from?

Shi Zhengli. O yea. Who else?

The same lady doing "Gain of Function" research on corona viruses. We are informed that the Wuhan lab isn't to blame because an investigation exonerated them - an investigation by Shi Zhengli.

‘Batwoman’ virologist defends Wuhan lab

She has been dubbed “Batwoman” by her colleagues after years of virus-hunting expeditions in bat caves around China led to exciting discoveries about SARS and other coronavirus strains in her lab.

www.news.com.au

Nothing to see here, guys. Shi is not defecting with files.

China’s ‘Bat Woman’ Shi Zhengli refutes rumor of ‘defecting with intelligence files’ - Global Times

www.globaltimes.cn

And the Chinese are not kidnapping her because she might be defecting, or sending sleepers to snuff out research at Pittsburgh University.

Murder mystery: Slain Chinese researcher on the verge of 'significant findings'

Dr Bing Liu was killed in an apparent murder-suicide as he closed in on Covid-19 finding.

www.nzherald.co.nz

Totally just a random murder suicide. Must be a lover's spat.

Aftrr all, even Pompeo is backing away now.

A Timeline Of The COVID-19 Wuhan Lab Origin Theory

The theory that COVID-19 originated in a lab in Wuhan has emerged as a highly contentious claim since the outbreak began.

www.forbes.com

In short, there is evidence in the DNA that it is engineered?

 

[Synkreto]

I’m not shifting any blame. I blame in all directions.

There is this quote I like to use, I do not know its origins, or whether I am even quoting it 100% correctly...it goes something like this :

"Whenever something bad happens, the vast majority of people are looking for someone to blame . The others immediately get to work figuring out what happened, how it happened, how to soften the impact and what can and needs to be done to prevent it from happening again ."