General / Off-Topic The safest place

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Vaccine hesitancy puts India's gains against virus at risk​

JAMSOTI, India (AP) — In Jamsoti, a village tucked deep inside India’s most populous state of Uttar Pradesh, the common refrain among the villagers is that the coronavirus spreads only in cities. The deadly infection, they believe, does not exist in villages.

So when a team of health workers recently approached Manju Kol to get vaccinated, she locked up her house, gathered her children and ran to the nearby forest.
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A team at Johns Hopkins was studying repurposed drugs to use in over inflammation following cancer chemotherapy a couple years ago. They got interested in Prazosin, an old antihypertensive that seemed to inhibit sections of the immune response, and found that it helped mice live through a cytokine storm that killed the controls. They published that in 2018.


Then the pandemic hit.

Would Prazosin help treat a cytokine storm in humans with Covid? Sounded plausible. They did a literature search to see outcomes in patients on Prazosin, who got pneumonias. Published in this preprint:

It looked hopeful.

"we find that patients exposed to α1-AR antagonists, as compared to unexposed patients, had a 34% relative risk reduction for mechanical ventilation and death (OR=0.70, p=0.021). We replicated these methods on three pneumonia cohorts, all with similar effects on both outcomes."

So they went and set up a drug trial.

No results yet.

My father is 87, institutionalized, and unvaccinated. No shots available.
His in house doctor started another alpha blocker. I believe that switching him to Prazosin will be a better choice, but I am no longer running that show.
 
Trevor Bedford ( @trvrb ) on a preprint by BloomLab ( @jbloom_lab ) [ In a new study, I identify and recover a deleted set of #SARSCoV2 sequences that provide additional information about viruses from the early Wuhan outbreak: ]

Thread unrolled into a webpage, no twitter needed to read :


The BloomLab preprint :


2 easy takeaways from @trvrb's thread :

Importantly, prior to Jesse's detective work, there were >77 genomes collected from Wuhan in Dec and Jan and shared publicly. (Source: https://threader.app/thread/1408080693091991558)

In this case, I completely agree that deletion of records from the SRA is alarming. However, I don't see what's to be gained from the deletion. Other Wuhan genomes clearly show both lineages circulating outside the market.
 
Peer reviewed Ivermectin metaanalysis published


Moderate-certainty evidence finds that large reductions in COVID-19 deaths are possible using ivermectin. Using ivermectin early in the clinical course may reduce numbers progressing to severe disease. The apparent safety and low cost suggest that ivermectin is likely to have a significant impact on the SARS-CoV-2 pandemic globally.

On balance, it appears to be worth trying. It's cheap and relatively safe.
 
Peer reviewed Ivermectin metaanalysis published




On balance, it appears to be worth trying. It's cheap and relatively safe.
So what is your opinion regarding this as a Doctor?
 
Just a l'il update from N. Ireland.
229 cases today, first time over 200 in a good while.
It(delta) was reported in Belfast on Wednesday, isn't hanging about and has become dominant.
The Executive could have shut down travel when advised to by CMO & others on 21st May but failed to do so.
Better news is no deaths for 2 weeks and only one in almost a, month, none in ICU's. It was a good run.
18-40's are most cases.
It will probably run its course now as it's been detected in all council areas. Mass gatherings and protests won't help either...was always likely.
 
Maybe you should check these numbers. Its all there, and much more disturbing than what you would see when a normal fully tested and fully approved vaccine is released.
According to the CDC vaers don't check the validity of reports which they accept from random members of the public.


Fact Check-VAERS reported vaccine deaths have not been confirmed or deemed causal by CDC​

The CDC explains on its website that the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) requires healthcare workers to report any deaths after vaccination to VAERS (Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System). It is also important to note that VAERS is also open for any member of the public for submissions, alongside healthcare workers (vaers.hhs.gov/reportevent.html). These reports do not necessarily imply that the vaccine caused the death and often include entries not yet confirmed or verified by the government agencies.

In related news here in the UK kids have worked out they can spoof lateral flow tests with orange juice for some time off school.

 
Maybe you should check these numbers. Its all there, and much more disturbing than what you would see when a normal fully tested and fully approved vaccine is released.

I know this is some kind of whatabouttism, but...

are you as much concerned about possible adverse health effects of Aspirin, Ibuprofen, the Pill etc ?
 
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So what is your opinion regarding this as a Doctor?

:unsure:
Ok this is what I know. All it is is inflammation of the heart muscle, and it can be anywhere from so mild you can't tell, or it can kill.

I've treated cases of course. Interestingly, we sometimes use an old gout medicine, considered toxic. (Colchicine is vastly more poisonous than any vaccine and has been used to murder people since the middle ages. It's really a cool interesting old plant thing.)

Myocarditis is not a big deal most of the time. It's much "worse" from the actual virus, but even then-
The study of 1,597 COVID-19 positive Big Ten athletes who had cardiac magnetic resonance (CMR) screening found 2.3% were diagnosed with myocarditis and most didn’t exhibit symptoms of the rare disease, a leading cause of sudden death in competitive athletes. Of the 37 athletes diagnosed with myocarditis, 28 didn’t exhibit symptoms.
That's from Covid cases, not the vaccine. With the vaccine, it's going to be really hard to even find a case.

It's often a "lab" diagnosis that has no real impact on most of the people. Sometimes it shows up on EKG, or in the chemistry. That quote indicates that it's often missed, and an MRI is needed to pick up more cases. Frankly, for average people, why bother with that expense? They're not actually sick, and will spontaneously recover - given time.

A few of the cases are more severe and a tiny percentage go on to having real problems. It's possible to die from it, usually in untreated situations. However athletes have weird adapted hearts, and sometimes they just drop down without a heartbeat, like this guy-

Chances are he had a myocarditis, completely undiagnosed, either from Covid or some other cause. Or maybe some other reason altogether. In any case, not playing soccer on the grounds that you think you'll suddenly keel over dead would make everybody else raise their eyebrows. It is a possibility though.

The vaccine hardly ever causes it, it hardly ever gets bad enough to create a problem, we can fix it if it gets bad, and the virus itself is WAY more likely to cause it anyhow.
In a population that is unvaccinated, you will find a LOT more myocarditis, if you have the time and an MRI machine.

It's not something to worry about, any more than say getting hit by lightening. But if you don't want to get it, vaccinate.
 
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:unsure:
Ok this is what I know. All it is is inflammation of the heart muscle, and it can be anywhere from so mild you can't tell, or it can kill.

I've treated cases of course. Interestingly, we sometimes use an old gout medicine, considered toxic. (Colchicine is vastly more poisonous than any vaccine and has been used to murder people since the middle ages. It's really a cool interesting old plant thing.)

Myocarditis is not a big deal most of the time. It's much "worse" from the actual virus, but even then-

That's from Covid cases, not the vaccine. With the vaccine, it's going to be really hard to even find a case.

It's often a "lab" diagnosis that has no real impact on most of the people. Sometimes it shows up on EKG, or in the chemistry. That quote indicates that it's often missed, and an MRI is needed to pick up more cases. Frankly, for average people, why bother with that expense? They're not actually sick, and will spontaneously recover - given time.

A few of the cases are more severe and a tiny percentage go on to having real problems. It's possible to die from it, usually in untreated situations. However athletes have weird adapted hearts, and sometimes they just drop down without a heartbeat, like this guy-

Chances are he had a myocarditis, completely undiagnosed, either from Covid or some other cause. Or maybe some other reason altogether. In any case, not playing soccer on the grounds that you think you'll suddenly keel over dead would make everybody else raise their eyebrows. It is a possibility though.

The vaccine hardly ever causes it, it hardly ever gets bad enough to create a problem, we can fix it if it gets bad, and the virus itself is WAY more likely to cause it anyhow.
In a population that is unvaccinated, you will find a LOT more myocarditis, if you have the time and an MRI machine.

It's not something to worry about, any more than say getting hit by lightening. But if you don't want to get it, vaccinate.
Well at this point I take the risk of the COVID more than taking the jab. It’s very untested and I’m not going to be a test subject.
 
I know this is some kind of whatabouttism, but...

are you as much concerned about possible adverse health effects Aspirin, Ibuprofen, the Pill etc ?
Please, that strawman is kind of silly, the products you mentioned was tested for years and all of them FDA approved, the COVID vaccines are not, they are approved for emergency use a totally different story.

Look I’m not trying to convince you guys it’s up to you what you do, I’m not going to take it until I’m sure it’s relative safe, and I’m not alone regarding this and as far as I can see Europe is getting into a bumpy ride as more and more people will resist. Interesting times for sure.
 
Meanwhile, back in my world...

Thunderstorms cooled things this morning, but heat and humidity returned in the afternoon. Very few wearing masks outdoors.

I got my car's license plates renewed. Most there were wearing masks. It was literally a boiler room. If you wanted to catch a variant, that would be the place. I showered right after I got back. Note: The license office was hiring for $15/hr. No thanks.

The closing grocery store still had a pile of cars out front. Masks are not required in it. There can't be much left. No desire to wait in line.

More storms lining up to the west. Oh, joy.
 
Well at this point I take the risk of the COVID more than taking the jab. It’s very untested and I’m not going to be a test subject.

That's been one of the top five coronavirus conspiracies since last year. The amount of cash resources and personnel thrown at it allowed the process to be sped up as the different testing stages ran in parallel not series as soon as the previous stage reached the point they could do that ordinarily there's a delay at each stage. With enough resources and a dedicated team checking results you skip the delays without skipping testing.

Think of it in the same way nations produce tanks far faster during wartime.

There were 40,000 volunteers to be test subjects just locally where I live, across the country there were multiple regions with their own tens of thousands of volunteers broken down by county lines and there are 80+ counties in the UK. That's a lot of volunteers. I know as I volunteered (slightly too late to actually be on the trial).

Here's an article from the government about vaccine funding from march last year, you can see how much they threw at it :

Here's an article debunking the experimental conspiracy.

"The vaccine is not experimental because it’s new​

A widely circulating claim is that the vaccines being rolled out are ā€œexperimentalā€ because of the short time-frame in which they have been produced.

The reality is, despite the speed in which they have been developed, the same strict procedures for developing a vaccine have been adhered to and are being overseen by independent regulators, Bryan Deane, Director of new medicines and data policy at the Association of the British Pharmaceutical Industry (ABPI) explained.

There were no shortcuts in the process.

The reason these vaccines have been formulated so quickly is that there are people working on each stage at the same time. ā€œPhases of research and manufacturing of vaccines are being done at the same time rather than one after the other, which helps condense the process, and there’s a huge amount of extra manpower going into the research effort,ā€ he told i."

 
Please, that strawman is kind of silly, the products you mentioned was tested for years and all of them FDA approved, the COVID vaccines are not, they are approved for emergency use a totally different story.

Look I’m not trying to convince you guys it’s up to you what you do, I’m not going to take it until I’m sure it’s relative safe, and I’m not alone regarding this and as far as I can see Europe is getting into a bumpy ride as more and more people will resist. Interesting times for sure.

That the products I mentioned are known for decades is exactly the point . The question still applies . Do you know about the known side effects of Aspirin, Ibuprofen, the Pill ? Severity and frequency of occurence ?

I am asking since you make it seem like the SARS-CoV-2 vaccines being extraordinarily unsafe because of "experimental" and "too many side effects" .

And it seems you really do not know that some very common, over the counter drugs come with a long and varied list of side effects, some pretty severe, which are known because these drugs have been in use by so many people for so long ( what did YOU think how we find this stuff out ? ), and some of theses effects are known to affect 1 in a thousand, 1 in 10k, or 1 in 100k people . Which does not stop these drugs from being sold as over the counter drugs in supermarkets etc...

Which is why your concern about the SARS-CoV-2 vaccines for aformentioned reasons seems quite silly tbh...especially when you relate the risk and occurence of these effects by the SARS-CoV-2 vaccines to the the risk and effects of beastly disease they are protecting people against .

ps.: it looks like we all are in for a bumpy ride, since it has become very unlikely we ( all of us ) will achieve community immunity against the Delta variant through vaccinations . Even Vaccinations coupled with immunity through natural infection seem more and more unlikely to result in giving us comminty immunity.

Food for thought :
Do you remember all the hubbub about AstraZeneca causing Thromboses/blood clots ? Women using the pill run a 1 in 200 (!) to 1 in 1000 (!) risk to get that, depending on what make/brand they use . For Az, there are various numbers ( depending on what information you look at ) . It starts at 1 in 225.000 .
 
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That the products I mentioned are known for decades is exactly the point . The question still applies . Do you know about the known side effects of Aspirin, Ibuprofen, the Pill ? Severity and frequency of occurence ?

I am asking since you make it seem like the SARS-CoV-2 vaccines being extraordinarily unsafe because of "experimental" and "too many side effects" .

And it seems you really do not know that some very common, over the counter drugs come with a long and varied list of side effects, some pretty severe, which are known because these drugs have been in use by so many people for so long ( what did YOU think how we find this stuff out ? ), and some of theses effects are known to affect 1 in a thousand, 1 in 10k, or 1 in 100k people . Which does not stop these drugs from being sold as over the counter drugs in supermarkets etc...

Which is why your concern about the SARS-CoV-2 vaccines for aformentioned reasons seems quite silly tbh...especially when you relate the risk and occurence of these effects by the SARS-CoV-2 vaccines to the the risk and effects of beastly disease they are protecting people against .

ps.: it looks like we all are in for a bumpy ride, since it has become very unlikely we ( all of us ) will achieve community immunity against the Delta variant through vaccinations . Even Vaccinations coupled with immunity through natural infection seem more and more unlikely to result in giving us comminty immunity.
You want to be the Guinea pig go ahead, I'm not stopping ya!
 
I'm a guinea pig and I'm shedding all over the place stopping women from having their menstruations and playing havoc with everyone's wifi signals. It is so much fun.

The best bit is washing up, no more hunting for cutlery under the plates. I just put my hand in the bowl and ZAP! everything sticks to it!! Amazing stuff from this tiny little jab.
 
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