The SCB (Shield Cell Bank) Thread

[Rocky-451]

Would you moan if someone killed you with mining laser, because they out stacked you with SCB's?

No I wouldn't moan. If someone could kill me with a mining laser because of the extra SCBs, I wouldn't waste my time fighting but run instead. Alternatively, I could stack a similar number of SCBs and kill hm with a better laser.

I think you've got the wrong end of the stick, the OP is a combat pilot and want's trading ships like the Python to stop being used to stack SCB. So your comments are looking a bit silly.

You realised my last suggestion about nerfing cargo bays was sarcastic, right? Yes, I know the OP is a combat pilot - he suggests he's a good one many times in this thread - and obviously I know he's complaining about stacking SCBs. Feel free to say why you think my comments are silly.

 

[CYB34]

Remove or nerf SCBs and small ships will also have a very hard time in a HAZ, Compromised or CZ.
Or a pvp wing fight.


One of us can get focused and without SCBs, the uber shield on the Imperial Courier or Vulture would go down too fast.
Not to mention the Viper or FAS, which I see struggling to boost away with their 215-298 MJ shields AND SCBs.
Hell, even the FDL has problems is he shoots at a wing of 3 Deadly small ships and has no cells left.


If your shields drop every 5 minutes in a RES and you have to run away and wait for them to regenerate, or if they get nuked in pvp wings in 10 seconds, what gameplay is that? Counter Strike? DOTA?


The SCBs already require tons of power, have lots of weight and a big delay when activated.
Not to mention you have to switch your view to the right side panel to enable them, in combat.


Now ships like the Python or Anaconda are quite tanky when 4-6 SCBs are stacked.
But their low agility gets even worse and the boost speed decreases. So good luck using fixed and turning.
You are almost forced to used gimballed or turreted, which become a joke when the enemy is doing hit'n runs with 2-4 Chaffs.


No ships should be optimized for 1v1 fights in an MMO and big ships should be able to fight for much longer, looking at their value and rebuy cost.


Some of you might try ramming from time to time in pvp if you say you like fighting without shields. You'd be surprised how useless SCBs become.

But it's not a magic win button, because some weapons are specifically designed for high alpha damage, and no amount of SCB will save you, if they rip off your shields before they engage. That said, I would up for giving it more drawbacks, but not nerfing it.

Amen to that.

 

[Alexander the Grape]

FAS for PvP: SCBs or Armour?

So I'm pirating the community goal in Kaushpoos in my FAS, and it's perfect for the task: it's fast, masslocks anything other than t9s, Pythons and Condas, it's got insane firepower with the right setup and the agility to bring them to bear. All with enough cargo space for lucrative hauls.

Now, normally I fight in my pirate build, but on the occasion I get drawn into major wing battles between CODE and its allies and the anti-Piracy Coalition, I tend to outfit it for combat. Now my question is, what to do with those internal slots? I keep switching between two builds:


Armour Focused
http://coriolis.io/outfit/federal_a...02d2d450i0d6b.Iw18QDEA.Aw18cQ==?bn=PvP Armour

And
SCB Focused
http://coriolis.io/outfit/federal_a...59546b.AwRhrSq5eI==.CwBj4yqA?bn=PvP PlasPulse

To my fellow FAS pilots: what do you think is best? Hull tanking or shield tanking? Since I don't have prismatics, I'm leaning towards hull, but the power of SCBs cannot be denied. Thoughts?

 

[Jesse30]

I would hardly call a ship with 3 large and 2 medium hardpoints a trading ship. If you compare the Python with the FDL (they are in the same price range), the Python has more internal, the FDL has more utility. Same goes for the Cobra and the DBS which are on the same level. The combat oriented ships all seem to have more utility then internal, and the multirole ships have better internal options so you can configure it to cargo/bounty hunting/mining/combat as you see fit. The fact that this setup makes some ships ideal for stacking SCBs doesn't matter squat.

Anyway, on to the topic, SCBs in themselves aren't a bad thing, it's a nice "oh " button for trader and fighter alike, when the excrement hits the fan. But it's not a magic win button, because some weapons are specifically designed for high alpha damage, and no amount of SCB will save you, if they rip off your shields before they engage. That said, I would up for giving it more drawbacks, but not nerfing it. And as mentioned before the problem is not the SCB, but the time it takes for a high rated shield to recharge. After some point bossters don't even matter anymore, you can finish War & Peace by the time an A6 or A7 recharges.

I agree on everything you just said until that point, so in order for me to stay competitive I need to dedicate at least three of my weapons slot to Rails or PA, now who is going to be running around with that setup unless you have a wingman to finish him off, I would like to have random encounters and still have a chance of winning, but that's not the case in order to fight your attacker you must have the same load out or better, no wonder Traders never stay and fight because is a Lose/lose situation for them.

 

[deMangler]

It is all relative.
Nerfing, or scrapping SCB's would be a huge buff to exciting combat.

 

[hunvagy]

I agree on everything you just said until that point, so in order for me to stay competitive I need to dedicate at least three of my weapons slot to Rails or PA, now who is going to be running around with that setup unless you have a wingman to finish him off, I would like to have random encounters and still have a chance of winning, but that's not the case in order to fight your attacker you must have the same load out or better, no wonder Traders never stay and fight because is a Lose/lose situation for them.

A trader should never, ever fight a combat build. It's called a trade ship for a reason, it is meant to haul lots of goods from A to B, not to engage in dogfights. Even the Clipper gets a lot more sluggish if you fill it with cargo, now imagine something with the turn rate of a T7. Why would anyone ever engage a ship in those craft?

Multiroles, yes, they could stay and duke it out, but again, they sacrificed combat ability for internal components, so of course they will turn tail and run when the going gets rough. If they are hauling, they won't just lose their ship, they might also lose cargo worth the rebuy cost and more. Traders are built for running goods, and running away when outmatched. Well at least in theory, because the T series couldn't even outrun an imperial fighter without exploding, if it wasn't for SCBs. And that is my honest opinion.

As for the alpha damage.. yes, I personally don't PvP, but the meta seems to be geared towards high alpha damage, be it ramming, torpedos or whatever, to negate the power of SCBs, or drawn out matches. That is why I said that I wouldn't mind some more drawbacks for the SCB, but to completely remove or annihilate it would be a mistake. Traders can and should use it for protection, and large vessels have no other alternatives, given how horrendous shield recharge is.


EDIT: Seeing how efficient the NPCs are with beam lasers lately, you could also do beam lasers + heatsink instead of railguns and PA. But honestly, there's only 5-6 types of weapons in the whole game, and the kinetics suck at shield breaking. So you either use Rail, PA or lasers. That's about it. Not really much of a build diversity, now is there.

 

[Jesse30]

Remove or nerf SCBs and small ships will also have a very hard time in a HAZ, Compromised or CZ.
Or a pvp wing fight.


One of us can get focused and without SCBs, the uber shield on the Imperial Courier or Vulture would go down too fast.
Not to mention the Viper or FAS, which I see struggling to boost away with their 215-298 MJ shields AND SCBs.
Hell, even the FDL has problems is he shoots at a wing of 3 Deadly small ships and has no cells left.


If your shields drop every 5 minutes in a RES and you have to run away and wait for them to regenerate, or if they get nuked in pvp wings in 10 seconds, what gameplay is that? Counter Strike? DOTA?


The SCBs already require tons of power, have lots of weight and a big delay when activated.
Not to mention you have to switch your view to the right side panel to enable them, in combat.


Now ships like the Python or Anaconda are quite tanky when 4-6 SCBs are stacked.
But their low agility gets even worse and the boost speed decreases. So good luck using fixed and turning.
You are almost forced to used gimballed or turreted, which become a joke when the enemy is doing hit'n runs with 2-4 Chaffs.


No ships should be optimized for 1v1 fights in an MMO and big ships should be able to fight for much longer, looking at their value and rebuy cost.


Some of you might try ramming from time to time in pvp if you say you like fighting without shields. You'd be surprised how useless SCBs become.



Amen to that.

Hell, even the FDL has problems is he shoots at a wing of 3 Deadly small ships and has no cells left- I wouldn't expect you to fight three deadly enemies unless you are an ACE pilot, other than that I expected to run, it is Elite Dangerous after all, Do you expect to win if you are in a shoot out with three SWAT team members?
The SCBs already require tons of power- Pythons doesn't have a small power plant, you have enough power. You may be referring to the FDL
have lots of weight and a big delay when activated- what delay ten seconds?
Not to mention you have to switch your view to the right side panel to enable them, in combat- A lot of cmdrs use Track Ir or VR headset, I even use my IPhone as a track IR. There is others out there who use macros they even have to look at the right panel.
But their low agility gets even worse and the boost speed decreases. So good luck using fixed and turning- I use FAoff 100% of the time, therefore, I don't have an agility problem, I fly my Python like an Eagle my only drawback it is slow boost speed in a direct line.
Some of you might try ramming from time to time in pvp if you say you like fighting without shields- I rarely get rammed in combat since I use a lot of thrusters to change direction so I never move on a straight line.

 

[Jesse30]

A trader should never, ever fight a combat build. It's called a trade ship for a reason, it is meant to haul lots of goods from A to B, not to engage in dogfights. Even the Clipper gets a lot more sluggish if you fill it with cargo, now imagine something with the turn rate of a T7. Why would anyone ever engage a ship in those craft?

Multiroles, yes, they could stay and duke it out, but again, they sacrificed combat ability for internal components, so of course they will turn tail and run when the going gets rough. If they are hauling, they won't just lose their ship, they might also lose cargo worth the rebuy cost and more. Traders are built for running goods, and running away when outmatched. Well at least in theory, because the T series couldn't even outrun an imperial fighter without exploding, if it wasn't for SCBs. And that is my honest opinion.

As for the alpha damage.. yes, I personally don't PvP, but the meta seems to be geared towards high alpha damage, be it ramming, torpedos or whatever, to negate the power of SCBs, or drawn out matches. That is why I said that I wouldn't mind some more drawbacks for the SCB, but to completely remove or annihilate it would be a mistake. Traders can and should use it for protection, and large vessels have no other alternatives, given how horrendous shield recharge is.


EDIT: Seeing how efficient the NPCs are with beam lasers lately, you could also do beam lasers + heatsink instead of railguns and PA. But honestly, there's only 5-6 types of weapons in the whole game, and the kinetics suck at shield breaking. So you either use Rail, PA or lasers. That's about it. Not really much of a build diversity, now is there.

I actually I agree with you. +1

 

[Jesse30]

You don't have a problem with traders using a little SCBs, but have you considered the negative impact of your suggestion to remove/nerf SCBs on these traders, some in starter ships? Not everyone has a Python like you.

And that's your problem - you think the game should suit YOU right now, while you're trading in a python. As a trader you combat-equip your ship only up to a certain level, i.e. without SCBs, and you want to artificially impose this limit on other pilots, those who are into combat and want to combat-equip their ships to the max. Sorry, but the game isn't just about you or traders with Pythons. Elite is a combat game as well. If you want to get in fights with combat pilots who have better equipments like SCBs, that's your choice, but when you lose don't complain and ask for such equipments to be nerfed just to give yourself a better chance at combat while carrying a load of cargo. You want to have your cake and eat it too. I have a Vulture and don't trade at all. How would you feel if I decided to start trading in this little ship with just 8Ts of cargo, and complain about how it's unfair that you in a Python could carry so much more cargo than me, and hence cargo bays should be nerfed? I propose that cargo bays should go in the utility slots. Like the idea?

who told you I like to fight in my Python? I like to consider myself an underdog fighter, my preferred ship for fighting is the Viper, and believe me I make Pythons their pants, even when they drop my shields I stay and fight. What I have problem with dedicated fighters don't stand a chance against a multirole due to SCBs stacking; it seems like you have a Vulture, now head out to a community goal and engage other players flying Pythons or FDLs to see how fast you are going to high wake out in your Vulture, regardless one or two SCB wont save you.

 

[Bortas]

who told you I like to fight in my Python? I like to consider myself an underdog fighter, my preferred ship for fighting is the Viper

That explains why you are against SCBs. You don't risk anything, SCBs are just standing in your way trying to kill big, expensive ship, with your worthless Viper.

Let's face it... the whole SCB "issue" can be broken down to the following:

Users of small ships want them removed, because they want to win against everything without risking anything.
Users of big ships don't want them removed, because they risk a lot more and want to get some value for their money.

And please stop arguing with the pemium beta. A lot has changed since then, most importantly wings were introduced. Please go take a Python without SCBs into a 4v4 wing battle. Then come tell us again how much fun getting a 10 mill insurance screen within 10 seconds was.

 

[Cmdr Rhott Roe]

Go away!

 

[Majinvash]

Without Pris shields, I find I am fighting without shields 90% of the time anyway.

So the hull tanking makes a lot of sense.

But you are taking damage from the start and if they are running rails, its going to get tricky quickly as things start to malfunction.

I dont think there is a right answer. I love the FAS but its needs PRIS

Majinvash
The Voice of Open

I don't think there is a right answer.

 

[Crimson Kaim]

Both is equally good. But since NPCs can do alot of dmg to your hull as well, think about adding a tiny shield gen to your armor.

 

[{SAS}Stalker]

Hull tank, its the rammers weapon of choice

 

[Flea King]

Full-Metal-FAS

Love it!

I enjoy B modules, save for an A scattered here and there. All the hull reinforcements you can wangle. The capacitor has a lot of juice so you can run with dual medium beams and the opt for two lovely large frag cannons, if you want to go all man mode.

Ram n' Blam!!

 

[vindicator jones]

Ive been doing a lot of FAS testing for an upcoming video vs the FDL.. and dont get me wrong, freaking love the FAS.. but its hull tanking is a bit.. umm...overrated.. I know.. I know.. Im going to cop a lot of flak over that.. but it was very easy to take out components too quickly, and it became a struggle to compensate while watching your armour just continuously drop.. look, it does soak up a meaty amount of damage, but it still drops frighteningly quick against a well armed target.

Now this could be to the fact that I normally dont like fighting with armour.. once my shields have dropped on the fdl, im boosting away... So it quite possibly be my playstyle. I just feel so much better when I can hit an SCB and get a quick top up on my shields. Just remember, armour modules only add a small amount of armour to your ship, they dont affect its overall strength.. so basically your just getting another 30 (or whatever it is) hitpoints to your armour, compared to an SCB that will give you much more protection to your shields. Also, with how I set up the FAS.. I could activate 3 SCB's simultaneously to get almost insta shields back in one shot, which was kinda cool.

Best suggestion I can make is try it out for yourself. and see what works best for you.. It could be that I just suck at hull tanking cause I am feeling so paranoid about it.. lol

 

[AdriánGuth]

Isn't this like the 1000th thread on the topic of SCBs?

Indeed i was made one of this myself a few weeks ago xD

 

[Flea King]

Ive been doing a lot of FAS testing for an upcoming video vs the FDL.. and dont get me wrong, freaking love the FAS.. but its hull tanking is a bit.. umm...overrated..

Are you using B class modules?

I find its great for hit and run but does need a friendly station near to patch it up after tough fights. Though really, if the ramming is accurate and the frags hit home, the fight is over in moments.

 

[Drink!]

I wish the armor mods worked a little better, I would love to make a stealth-ish FAS, but all of my tested failed. Just couldn't get it to work for me. Armor is the last line before your dead, it shouldn't be your first defense, no matter how much you got.

Any average PVP will just aim your modules.

 

[Jesse30]

That explains why you are against SCBs. You don't risk anything, SCBs are just standing in your way trying to kill big, expensive ship, with your worthless Viper.

Let's face it... the whole SCB "issue" can be broken down to the following:

Users of small ships want them removed, because they want to win against everything without risking anything.
Users of big ships don't want them removed, because they risk a lot more and want to get some value for their money.

And please stop arguing with the pemium beta. A lot has changed since then, most importantly wings were introduced. Please go take a Python without SCBs into a 4v4 wing battle. Then come tell us again how much fun getting a 10 mill insurance screen within 10 seconds was.

What are you talking about killing big ship with small? first of all, even If I did manage to get the shields down all you got to do hit FSD, small ship cannot mass lock anything bigger we all know that, second I have enough credit to fight in anything smaller than the Python, not everything is about credit in the game. And 4v4 wing battle are dull, not to mention it takes a long time and luck for the battle take place due to instance.