The SCB (Shield Cell Bank) Thread

[soma]

From today's dev update:

As seen from https://community.elitedangerous.com/node/335 - here's this weeks dev update!

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Another change we are testing in the 1.5 beta is to how shield cell banks operate. It comes in two parts, the first is increasing the heat cost when you use a shield cell bank. This increases the risk of using these as the sudden heat build up can cause module damage, using two or more in rapid succession can even cause hull damage – so making these a defence of last resort rather.. The second part is there is now a delay when these are powered up. These delays also apply to a range other modules. We’re looking forward to seeing the feedback on these and the other changes in the 1.5 build.


We’re also increasing the benefits from hull health from the hull reinforcement packages.
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It remains to be seen how high the heat penalty for stacking SCBs will be, and how long the SCBs need to power up. But in combination with the increased benefits from hull reinforcement these changes look promising. Definitely a step in the right direction IMHO.

 

[digitalscream]

From today's dev update:



It remains to be seen how high the heat penalty for stacking SCBs will be, and how long the SCBs need to power up. But in combination with the increased benefits from hull reinforcement these changes look promising. Definitely a step in the right direction IMHO.

My concern is how this will affect Vulture builds (given that I use one as my main ship). I doubt it'll hurt too much - I've only ever had the 80% warning when I've been firing constantly, boosted and used chaff and a shield cell at the same time.

It'll certainly hurt people who use Couriers, though, and possibly Vipers as well.

To me, it'd make more sense - with the power-up delay - if they let SCBs disengage power when they've run out of cells, thus allowing you to failover to the next one in your power priorities without having to do it manually. I never understood why that's necessary anyway; if a SCB has run out of cells, there's surely nothing left to draw power?

 

[NeilF]

As seen from https://community.elitedangerous.com/node/335 - here's this weeks dev update!

Another change we are testing in the 1.5 beta is to how shield cell banks operate. It comes in two parts, the first is increasing the heat cost when you use a shield cell bank. This increases the risk of using these as the sudden heat build up can cause module damage, using two or more in rapid succession can even cause hull damage – so making these a defence of last resort rather.. The second part is there is now a delay when these are powered up. These delays also apply to a range other modules. We’re looking forward to seeing the feedback on these and the other changes in the 1.5 build.

I considered this exact "fix" a while back and decided it was a bad move! The problem here is it's a patch over a hole, rather than a proper fix surely?

So now consider two CMDRs facing each other off in fairly equally matched Pythons. They're both running 5A SCBs in parallel. CMDR A has simply has a previous fight where they've fired off two SCBs before.

CMDR A
ON: SCB 5A (1/3 charge left)
ON: SCB 5A (1/3 charge left)
OFF: SCB 5A (3/3 charge left)
OFF: SCB 5A (3/3 charge left)

CMDR B
ON: SCB 5A (3/3 charge left)
ON: SCB 5A (3/3 charge left)
OFF: SCB 5A (3/3 charge left)
OFF: SCB 5A (3/3 charge left)


As it stands with the current mechanics, CMDR B has the advantage. He has 6 SCB uses over CMDR A's 4.

With the new mechanics, it's potentially even worse! CMDR A can now only use 1 SCB before he now hits the power up delay before he can use his next SCBs? If this is a significant time, he only has 1 SCB usage to CMDR A's 3! If it's not a significant time, then nothing's been accomplished with this change?



Consider my suggestion, where assuming they have the same (or similar) new single SCB unit, with 3 or more ammo left, they can both use 3 cells/charges in X minutes (eg: 9). Done! They are both on an equal footing! Less paper, scissors, stone... With skill becoming a factor more often.


...and let me guess still no fix to chaff spam completely nerfing gimbals?

 

[Snarfbuckle]

With this change the best moment to use SCB's is either:

-When you KNOW the shields are about to go down AND you calculate for the delay before the SCB activate

-You activate it the moment your shields activates to boost them to 100%

Spamming them will be a thing of the past so there will be LESS of them on a single ship and instead some investment in ARMOUR perhaps.

 

[Bortas]

With the mechanics, it potentially even worse. CMDR A can now only use 1 SCB before he now hits the power up delay before he can use his next SCBS? If this is a significant time, he noly has 1 SCB usage to CMDR A's 3.

Disagree. The new mechanics is better for CMDR B, because he can switch off his partly-empty SCBs and switch on the full ones, after his first fight. So he would be combat ready again, instead of having to dock to resupply.

If it's not a significant time, then nothing's been accomplished with this change?

It will certainly be significant enough to basically limit the number of SCBs to 2 for any given fight. It's now up to you, if you want to take spare SCBs for subsequent fights, without the need to dock between them, or fill the rest of your internal compartments up with hull reinforcements to maximize your potential for a single fight.

edit: This change will basically remove big support ships from wing pvp, because they HAVE TO spam SCBs.

 

[Alexander the Grape]

From today's dev update:



It remains to be seen how high the heat penalty for stacking SCBs will be, and how long the SCBs need to power up. But in combination with the increased benefits from hull reinforcement these changes look promising. Definitely a step in the right direction IMHO.

I'm cautiously optimistic. Even if the spool up times are short, even a few extra seconds is enough to alpha through shields if you time it right.

It all depends on how much heat, and how much extra time. Maybe skilled commanders should count charges to determine the best time to go all-in

 

[NeilF]

Disagree. The new mechanics is better for CMDR B, because he can switch off his partly-empty SCBs and switch on the full ones, after his first fight. So he would be combat ready again, instead of having to dock to resupply.

Not really...
1) He needs to have pre-empted the situation? He can't switch over when the CMDR is already attacking him, so he needs to have moved over to his full SCBs before?
2) He then risks leaving his next fight with both (sets of) SCBs partially used? Now he definately is in an unnecessary mess!

.

 

[Alexander the Grape]

Not really...
1) He needs to have pre-empted the situation? He can't switch over when the CMDR is already attacking him, so he needs to have moved over to his full SCBs before?
2) He then risks leaving his next fight with both (sets of) SCBs partially used? Now he definately is in an unnecessary mess!

.

CMDR B is still in a better situation than pre-1.5, where they'd slog it out for 15 minutes before realising the other CMDR has more cells than him and having to hi wake.

Now, whoever's shields go down first has a chance of returning the favour before the enemy gets their second set of banks up

 

[Bortas]

Not really...
1) He needs to have pre-empted the situation? He can't switch over when the CMDR is already attacking him, so he needs to have moved over to his full SCBs before?

Exactly. I would switch over immediately after the fiight is over to be ready again.

2) He then risks leaving his next fight with both sets of SCBs partially used? Now he definately is in a mess!
.

Of course he has to dock when he has no full SCBs left. But at least he can now fight two battles before he has to dock, instead of one

 

[Metalstardust]

1.5 Changes. So the Nerfers win again.

 

[jabberwalkie]

1.5 Changes. So the Nerfers win again.

I'm not sure I really see the problem with the changes. The SCB's are supposed to be a stop gap, last resort. Not a crutch.

 

[Altarf]

1.5 Changes. So the Nerfers win again.

Not Nerfers... the Whiners

 

[Metalstardust]

I'm not sure I really see the problem with the changes. The SCB's are supposed to be a stop gap, last resort. Not a crutch.

If you are like me and you are an old fart from 1984 you need SCB's

 

[tranquil eternity]

Nice SCB's nerf guys! Now my wing of poor Vipers will easy kill your Corvettes/Anacondas/Cutters

 

[EUS]

All I know is I'd like the same faulty logic applied to shield boosters as the cell banks.

 

[Dimensions]

Thing is you already have to have to wait a long time until SCBs kick in, adding more delay will create a silly situation where you have to try and predict how much damage you will take before using one. For instance an extreme example would be having to use a SCB just before a fight starts. I think they should remove the delay and heat cost altogether and have a lock out period until you can use another one. This is a far simpler solution, and easier to adjust in the future. Also means you could have different lockout periods depending on ship type or power plant class etc.

 

[digitalscream]

Disagree. The new mechanics is better for CMDR B, because he can switch off his partly-empty SCBs and switch on the full ones, after his first fight. So he would be combat ready again, instead of having to dock to resupply.



It will certainly be significant enough to basically limit the number of SCBs to 2 for any given fight. It's now up to you, if you want to take spare SCBs for subsequent fights, without the need to dock between them, or fill the rest of your internal compartments up with hull reinforcements to maximize your potential for a single fight.

edit: This change will basically remove big support ships from wing pvp, because they HAVE TO spam SCBs.

In fact, this will probably make people consider B-rated SCBs - they have a lower per-cell charge but more cells, and thus a larger overall charge before you have to power up the second bank.

 

[almostpilot]

I'm not sure I really see the problem with the changes. The SCB's are supposed to be a stop gap, last resort. Not a crutch.

Not Nerfers... the Whiners

And it seems to me that the FD only listen to the whiners again.

 

[Alexander the Grape]

Thing is you already have to have to wait a long time until SCBs kick in, adding more delay will create a silly situation where you have to try and predict how much damage you will take before using one. For instance an extreme example would be having to use a SCB just before a fight starts. I think they should remove the delay and heat cost altogether and have a lock out period until you can use another one. This is a far simpler solution, and easier to adjust in the future. Also means you could have different lockout periods depending on ship type or power plant class etc.

This is actually a misunderstanding: the delay happens when you turn the module on, not when you activate it

 

[Wasp0]

77 pages and counting.

As a Cmdr that does NOT do much combat but is looking at getting into it more, and has only just learnt to use SCB's, can some very kind Cmdr tell me if SCBs are changing from the way i have just learnt to use?

Thank you kindly sirs and sir'ess!

o7