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You are right, the are plusses and minuses on both sides of the discussion. What you don't seem to acknowledge with your argument and suggestion (taken from your signature) is that you are asking (demanding?) that FD make a new, different game for you. They don't seem to think that's something they want to do, and that's what the quote is for.
You think the game design is not good, possibly bad. Others (including presumably FD) don't share your view.
Oh we can criticize it....you just did...and you didn't get the discussion removed or a reprimand for having it.
Regardless of anyones opinion on the 'good' vs. 'bad' part, the developers have basically said, no one's opinion matters on this discussion. They have made the game this way...and it will run its course without this item being changed.
Looking at it from this point of view...and the total lack of extrinsic player reward for PvP in Open, I feel they should remove friendly fire from Open...as soon as CQC opens.
Players receive no reward from the game from shooting other players, in general they are either punished for it directly, or indirectly, and in general, hurts the real game play that the game is designed with...i.e. the PvE collection of trophies to win the indirect PvP activities the game rewards everyone for.
Every time you say this, Lord Braben kills a Sidewinder.
And every time a PvP-Pro-Bro doesn't understand and goes full pew-pew, Open loses another player to Solo or Group.
Seems like I'm slowly Shadowbanning myself then! Have been, and will always be, in Open. Don't care that other people can influence the galaxy without me being able to interact with them, I probably wouldn't be able to anyway since they most likely don't play in the New Zealand time slot. And if they do, probably in an IP range so far removed from mine that I'd never be paired in an instance with them anyway.
But remove friendly fire from Open... That would be the biggest possible immersion breaker. Give it it's own mode, don't break Open please.
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Seems like I'm slowly Shadowbanning myself then! Have been, and will always be, in Open. Don't care that other people can influence the galaxy without me being able to interact with them, I probably wouldn't be able to anyway since they most likely don't play in the New Zealand time slot. And if they do, probably in an IP range so far removed from mine that I'd never be paired in an instance with them anyway.
But remove friendly fire from Open... That would be the biggest possible immersion breaker. Give it it's own mode, don't break Open please.
You have a very decent view of the circumstances. No one that I know of advocated the removal of FF in open, except Roybe. His is a singular position that if PvP is meaningless, it should be removed. I hope I paraphrased that well enough... I believe his view is a form of protest.
Oh I'm all for Open, and I would never like to see artificial limits on player interaction as far as combat and damage go. It would break immersion, as you point out.
Open is though, a truly Open market. It's all supply and demand. Some players demand other players to shoot at. Those players provide the supply, and demand an interesting and enjoyable game in return. As soon as one gets above itself and demands "MOAR!" the other goes "urm, nope". Unfortunately, it does seem that Open is overbalanced with "Die now Noob!" types, and not enough seals willing to be the "OK club me now!" variety. Things will eventually balance out of course.
Open is though, a truly Open market. It's all supply and demand. Some players demand other players to shoot at. Those players provide the supply, and demand an interesting and enjoyable game in return. As soon as one gets above itself and demands "MOAR!" the other goes "urm, nope". Unfortunately, it does seem that Open is overbalanced with "Die now Noob!" types, and not enough seals willing to be the "OK club me now!" variety. Things will eventually balance out of course.
Seems like I'm slowly Shadowbanning myself then! Have been, and will always be, in Open. Don't care that other people can influence the galaxy without me being able to interact with them, I probably wouldn't be able to anyway since they most likely don't play in the New Zealand time slot. And if they do, probably in an IP range so far removed from mine that I'd never be paired in an instance with them anyway.
But remove friendly fire from Open... That would be the biggest possible immersion breaker. Give it it's own mode, don't break Open please.
Why? You don't walk down a street and break the law by smashing someone in the face.
I understand that this is a game. In games, when there are supported activities the designers reward folks for them.
Direct PvP gets no reward...and breaks the game for most people that are working on the games indirect PvP to gain the designed rewards. Whether it's PowerPlay, local politics, trading, or even pirating, player death is against the design of the game... and player deaths are punished. Even bounty hunters are forced to kill NPC's, since most players won't run around in Open with a large enough bounty to be bothered with.
So, why bother having Direct PvP in there at all? The only way to advance in this game is to do things to the NPC's...there isn't enough time, or people to get to Elite in PvP.
There is the intrinsic level of reward...but if you are expecting to get your reward from someone else's schadenfreude, that's generally not a good way to meet folks and gain lasting friendships...that's just a way to enjoy someone else's salty tears as the overpowered player flies off laughing at the other persons discomfiture.
I think the punishment for murder in the game is not nearly hard enough. There is very little consequences to the action of the noob-killers. If the Pilots Federation actually cared about its won reputation, there would be a quick balancing of the situation indeed.
Of course, we might need Horizons to arrive first. Then players that got kicked out of the PF could find themselves owning only a Scarab, stuck on an airless rock somewhere.
SSeems like I'm slowly Shadowbanning myself then! Have been, and will always be, in Open. Don't care that other people can influence the galaxy without me being able to interact with them, I probably wouldn't be able to anyway since they most likely don't play in the New Zealand time slot. And if they do, probably in an IP range so far removed from mine that I'd never be paired in an instance with them anyway.
But remove friendly fire from Open... That would be the biggest possible immersion breaker. Give it it's own mode, don't break Open please.
We are not trying to break Open, a new mode, similar to open but PVE instead of PVP
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I think the punishment for murder in the game is not nearly hard enough. There is very little consequences to the action of the noob-killers. If the Pilots Federation actually cared about its won reputation, there would be a quick balancing of the situation indeed.
Of course, we might need Horizons to arrive first. Then players that got kicked out of the PF could find themselves owning only a Scarab, stuck on an airless rock somewhere.
That is why I suggest that if someone has a bounty above a certain amount (say $5000) than he can't sell his ship, modules, or even re-arm/repair in a civilized sector. He can't dock in stations only outposts, and if his ship is too big.. he's in trouble. BUT.. if he can get to a station that is controlled by pirates then he can.. though the price would probably be higher than normal to get repaired. Maybe even have station personnel who can take care of their bounty for a hefty cut allowing him access back into civilized sectors.
I mean if someone wants to play as a pirate, lets make it at least partly realistic.
I don't understand being "hostile" to a system and the station allowing me to dock and fully repair, rearm and everything."
Sounds perfect to me...except the protest thingie....<shrug> I see PvP as being poorly supported for players that want to play in Open currently and generally unnecessary once CQC is released.
So why should the player base be subjected to this any more? If people want a challenging PvP experience that allows for personal conquest, they have it in CQC...the only people that will be left in Open are those that do not want this. The Open experience will be nothing more than 'I shot x noobs!' or "I aggravated those folks in that CG (or that Power In PP)'. This will cease to be fun at that point....CQC will move the competitive players out and leave the ats in Open.
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That is a very sensible idea. Police response needs to be stepped up for all crimes in areas that actually have law enforcement. Anarchy systems should remain the free-for-all type. Criminals and terrorists in one area, are heroes and legends in opposing areas. That's all good! It just needs some mechanism for enforcing consequence.
But I can if I want to.
In a sense, the lack of reward for direct PvP is a consequence of allowing non-Open modes. There simply isn't enough risk involved in killing other players unjustifiedly since they are treated just like NPCs for game-play purposes. Killing players shouldn't be made into something special, there should be no score kept to separate between killing of PCs and NPCs. There should be consequences though (which there isn't, really). And that's why Groups and Solo seem like ways to avoid the bad apples.
Think about it. We kill, get killed and respawn. To make that make sense, we must have a deal that allow us to be cloned from a database and an insurance that doesn't mind the reckless behaviour. But what if the Pilot Federation actually had to strike deals with powers and factions to do this? What if the respawn feature was available everywhere, but the most developed systems generally had an agreement with the PF about when to allow for a Pilot to respawn?
That way if you kept committing crimes, the most developed, stable and connected systems might refuse to let you respawn at their stations. If you die in their space, that's it. Start from scratch. Or you are given a Scarab with a mining module and set to break rocks somewhere until you have repaid your bounty. The baddies would slowly be restricted to play in the most anarchic systems that may not strike deals with the Player Federation.
That could even make it a little exciting to be an outlaw...
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But I can if I want to.
In a sense, the lack of reward for direct PvP is a consequence of allowing non-Open modes. There simply isn't enough risk involved in killing other players unjustifiedly since they are treated just like NPCs for game-play purposes. Killing players shouldn't be made into something special, there should be no score kept to separate between killing of PCs and NPCs. There should be consequences though (which there isn't, really). And that's why Groups and Solo seem like ways to avoid the bad apples.
Think about it. We kill, get killed and respawn. To make that make sense, we must have a deal that allow us to be cloned from a database and an insurance that doesn't mind the reckless behaviour. But what if the Pilot Federation actually had to strike deals with powers and factions to do this? What if the respawn feature was available everywhere, but the most developed systems generally had an agreement with the PF about when to allow for a Pilot to respawn?
That way if you kept committing crimes, the most developed, stable and connected systems might refuse to let you respawn at their stations. If you die in their space, that's it. Start from scratch. Or you are given a Scarab with a mining module and set to break rocks somewhere until you have repaid your bounty. The baddies would slowly be restricted to play in the most anarchic systems that may not strike deals with the Player Federation.
That could even make it a little exciting to be an outlaw...
So kill NPC's if there is no difference. It just comes down to 'Why bother killing another player?'
Since there is no reason...it is a useless activity that wastes everyone's time and play efforts EXCEPT the player attacking others. If you want competitive PvP...you will have CQC...if you just want to smash someone's face..you have Open. Once CQC starts...I won't be in Open for this very reason....Direct PvP will get in the way of the games designed content.
Well, if you are going to make changes to how someone respawns...seems, again, like the losers pay the price. Unless a trader is going to carry more health potions than a fighter....just another reason for the trader to trade elsewhere. (lore wise..we do not die...we eject and make our way to a station).
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Of course you can. It's not a terribly nice thing to do, nor is it a terribly good idea.
Smashing people in the face in video games is one thing, but smashing people in the face in real life is an entirely different thing. Especially when that person has a concealed-carry 9mm
Of course you can. It's not a terribly nice thing to do, nor is it a terribly good idea.
Smashing people in the face in video games is one thing, but smashing people in the face in real life is an entirely different thing. Especially when that person has a concealed-carry 9mm
Trick is to make him think he is safe with his concealed-carry
When Florida started implementing concealed-carry laws, I knew it was time for me to move...
STrick is to make him think he is safe with his concealed-carry
When Florida started implementing concealed-carry laws, I knew it was time for me to move...
Thing is - nobody is every truly safe anywhere - you can puke and choke in your sleep, wash your hands in the bathroom and get electrocuted on a lightswitch, drive your car and get CO poisoning from a cracked exhaust, get mangled up in a elevator, have a window crack and decapitate you - all sorts of things!
It could be like a Game Of Thrones! WE COULD BE RICH
Do you prefer to play chess against a computer or a living opponent (human, I assume)? I prefer the human opponent, so I prefer Open play. At the moment we just don't have the same stake in the game, though, traders and pirates. That has to be fixed, so it will be truly dangerous to live dangerously in ED.
The escape capsule thing just doesn't explain it, though. If I die in my current position 6000 light years from Sol, I'm instantly back at a station. Nothing is that fast. And I'm most likely to die falling into a sun, so how is the capsule escaping from that? We should have capsules, escape options, as well. But as I see it we have an EVE model at the moment, but without the escape capsule option. We respawn from a "save point" which is where we were last docked. Lore can say what it wants to, that's the in-game mechanic.
The losers will always pay the price, or they wouldn't be losing. Problem is that at the moment, if a trader loses they lose the rebuy value of their ship AND cargo, plus issue with missions if they were on any. Explorers lose all data gathered when out at sea. Random psychotic killers lose next to nothing (rebuy of ship). Without a penalty system that carries over after ship destruction and have lasting consequences, the PvP baddies have the easy time. We need to lose more for the killing of innocents.
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