Modes The Solo vs Open vs Groups Thread - Mk III

Do you want a Open PvE

  • Yes, I want a Open PvE

    Votes: 54 51.4%
  • No, I don't want a Open PvE

    Votes: 49 46.7%
  • I want only Open PvE and PvP only in groups

    Votes: 2 1.9%

  • Total voters
    105
  • Poll closed .
Status
Thread Closed: Not open for further replies.
1) Yes it is frustrating to discover that there is not a thing you can do to directly counter player undermining...

I'm really tired of hearing this false argument. Do people just not read and decide what to make things in their own head?

PowerPlay is politics. Most politics are shadow wars. You have the means to combat undermining with fortifying in every mode. Nothing in PowerPlay has said you'd have the right to "directly oppose" with PvP action. It is impossible to blockade actions because the matchmaker can't put everyone in the same instance.

If you just don't want to play Powerplay, then don't. Quit coming here with the same arguments that only show that you don't understand how PowerPlay works or are unwilling to play it the way it is set out.
 
It's right up there with people who claim that they are done with the game, but continue to haunt the forums. Mind boggling man, simply mind boggling.

I really, really don't get this. If I didn't like a game I purchased (*coughcough*Homeworld Remastered*coughcough*) I'd make maybe 1-3 posts on a forum all y (if that) and then go find a game that I like. It's really weird to see people posting here "I haven't played the game in months, BUT..."

Ludicrous.

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I "fear" Open in the same way I "fear" tackling a backlogged toilet: it's an unpleasant experience I could do without, something that could turn muddy even the perfect day.

Haha I repped you but also thought I'd quote this as my hilarious chuckle of the day :D
 
If you truly want to play alone, you can also do that in open play, It's a big Galaxy !


This argument gets trotted out all the time and it's nothing but silly. Sure, the Galaxy is big - but the human bubble of occupied space isn't. The trade lanes do not go outside the bubble. Rares trades are inside the bubble. Stations to refuel, repair and outfit are inside the bubble.

Quit using this stupid argument like it's some kind of magical solution. It isn't.

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My space pixels

I'm copyrighting that for the name of my new, interstellar punk-pop band! THE SPACE PIXELS©
 
lets be honest ppl go to solo just to do things (trade,PP,or sth else) in easy mode where they cant meet others cmdrs, and when they have more credits than god they appear in open in anaconda full load.

Well, supposedly, open players would be so much betterer than hiding, cowardly, duplicitous... [help me here, Cody!] solo players that there'd be no contest; the open player would destroy the solo player no matter what kind of ship and loadout they had!

At least, open-only players have said this...

*laughing* in fact, just recently!

there will be human cmdrs in open and for sure they are more deadly than whatever NPC.

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What is so frustrating about knowing that other players can switch modes?
<snip>
It's really bizarre and absurd to think that all those players who switch between Open Mode and Solo Mode do so just to gain an imaginary advantage or reduce some imaginary value from playing Open or do so because of risk or whatever imaginary reason or threat or thing some Open Player come up with.

Crazy, innit? There's this pervasive view that an army of ghosts, all playing the exact same way and for the exact same Power are affecting PowerPlay unfairly. Like somehow every player in Mobius group all decide in the same instant "let's flip Lave and no one can oppose us rawr!"

WE ARE THE GHOST ARMY IN YOUR GALACTIC MACHINE. ALL YOUR BASE ARE BELONG TO US.
 
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Disclaimer: Just to prevent misunderstandings: I like to be able to switch modes whenever I want. I like it that all modes share the same galaxy.


Nothing in PowerPlay has said you'd have the right to "directly oppose" with PvP action. …

Actually it has. That "hostile" tag is an indication that fighting other CMDRs is actually something that is part of PP. I can't remember where I read it (dev update, newsletter or other FD news item), but FD said PP would give CMDRs reasons to fight each other.

You are right though that PP isn't direct PvP centric and all can be done without fighting other CMDRs.

This argument gets trotted out all the time and it's nothing but silly. Sure, the Galaxy is big - but the human bubble of occupied space isn't. …

Quit using this stupid argument like it's some kind of magical solution. It isn't.


The inhabited bubble is big. Power Play made it a bit smaller, but there are still areas in the bubble where no other CMDR enters systems within 24 hours. There won't be highly profitable trade routes, but RES with nobody in can be found. Missions can be done without ever seeing a CMDR. Trading can be done, just not so profitable as some slave trading routes between certain power play bubbles.

The argument is a bit silly if used by an open mode only advocate as it's a good argument against all the silly "risk" and "open should be more rewarding" comments. If a CMDR can "hide" in Open then all the "risk", "easy mode" and "hide in solo and then come godlike rich in open with an Anaconda" is obviously ridiculous bio waste.


… [help me here, Cody!] …

Let me help you: <chortles>
 
Disclaimer: Just to prevent misunderstandings: I like to be able to switch modes whenever I want. I like it that all modes share the same galaxy.

We agree there :)

If a CMDR can "hide" in Open then all the "risk", "easy mode" and "hide in solo and then come godlike rich in open with an Anaconda"

I thought that was "SCB Mode" :D


Let me help you: <chortles>

Ah, I was fishing Cody for his List. It's getting quite long. But thanks for the able assist :D
 
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What about all those pesky Open players hiding in other instances than your own? ;)

I don't think instances re fully understood by the community are they. I mean it's mentioned a lot and referenced a lot but, do we really know what's going on there? How many instances can there be for instance?
 
Ghosts undermining PP? I'll be honest here. I don't PP. I just trade to attempt to reach elite trader, which has become an obsession. I really mean an obsession. I'm not even sure if its a healthy obsession.

Even during the wars blockades were breached, bypassed and circumvented on this small globe we call earth. Now as Doug put it, space is really big. The possibility of creating a blockade in space that is 100% impervious to breaching is so ridiculous a notion, that to consider it a possibility is tantamount to believing in faeries. There are always holes and blockade runners. The PP players in solo may be considered as intelligence operatives bypassing blockades to undermine. Just another variable to make your fortiification more troublesome. Or did you want it to be easy? Is open 'easy' mode because they want it to be a linear and simple PP mechanic? I drop x amount of y here and I get z amount.

In war there are a great many underhand, downright sneaky and frankly distasteful approaches that can be undertaken against your enemy. Theres subterfuge and all sorts of dodgy goings on. To wish to do nothing more than confront them in a ship and shoot them is nothing less than a simple game of battleships. Besides operatives aren't always on ships. They're amongst us now. Your neighbours, your friends, your lover?

So these Ghosts in solo or group are another random variable to ensure you cannot control everything. They add a randomness that no npc algorithm could ever hope to achieve.

I am a Ghost and I am in the machine.
 
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I don't think instances re fully understood by the community are they. I mean it's mentioned a lot and referenced a lot but, do we really know what's going on there? How many instances can there be for instance?

I like to mention it now and again; most arguments against Solo affecting an Open player's game can also equally be applied to any other player not in that particular instance at that time. Those cheating shadow mode players are everywwwwheeeerrrreeeee wooooooOOOOOooooo :)
 
I don't think instances re fully understood by the community are they. I mean it's mentioned a lot and referenced a lot but, do we really know what's going on there? How many instances can there be for instance?

The instances are on your own computer, and thus from Frontier's point of view there is no limit to their numbers. Frontier does not have instance servers, they use our computers for that. This is what "peer to peer" means.

What their servers do is to point each player's client towards other players that could host a instance together, allowing players to play together. To determine who can be put together that way Frontier's servers use a number of inputs; the mode (Solo, Group, Open) of each player is an obvious one, but also the quality of the link between the players. Putting together two players with a bad link between them is asking for trouble, making the experience worse for everyone.

And here things start getting interesting. If your ISP doesn't talk well with another player's, then you two won't be put together, even if you are cruising the exact same spot in space. A routing error can make you unable to play with whole countries at a time. There are a lot of things that can prevent players from playing together in a peer to peer architecture like ED uses, and Frontier would be unable to even diagnose many of those.

Then, there's also the possibility of players intentionally cutting or degrading their links to other players. Some of the tools for this are bundled with the operating system itself, some come with nearly every non-crappy router, and the most advanced ones — used by developers to see if their applications can still work if their users don't have a pristine network connection — can be easily found, some even for free. There are dozens of ways to force ED's servers to never put you together with other players even if you choose Open in the menu, many of them undetectable by Frontier (well, Frontier can tell that the player isn't able to play with others, but telling why would be impossible).

In short: it's impossible for Frontier to truly force everyone into Open with the network architecture they have chosen, as knowledgeable players would be able to play solo even after choosing Open.

Could Frontier change this? Perhaps. At great cost, which would include building or hiring datacenters in every continent, at least if they care about keeping lag low. Even then, players from one continent wouldn't be able to see those from other continents; someone from the US or Europe would be unlikely to be able to directly oppose me, for example.
 
With PvP players heading to CQC, Open is going to look rather lonely.

Why should Open become lonely because of CQC?
It's a different type of PvP - no pirating, no extreme asymmetry in power, only consensual combat. I bet a lot of very active PvP combat players in Open will be against CQC as it is "no risk", "no danger" and generally "just arcade".
 
And you of course miss some really cool ships to do PvP with in CQC. There are no Vipers, Couriers, Vultures and so on.
 
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Why should Open become lonely because of CQC?

Depends on how many players doing PvP in Open prefer it over the fairer, more organized and setback-free CQC. There is at least one precedent I know of; world PvP in WoW was sharply reduced when the game implemented Battlegrounds, and never recovered, even in the latest expansion where Blizzard removed flight (well, they are adding it back now due to player pressure, but for most of the expansion there was no flight).
 
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