Modes The Solo vs Open vs Groups Thread - Mk III

[Robert Maynard]

They got their wish of not being hailed over comms uninvited. Now they expect others to not be offended when they don't respond? How rude.

.... rude is when those who assume that a player is ignoring them (having never received any comms in the first place as all comms were disabled) then open fire "cos reasons"....

 

[Faded Glory]

They got their wish of not being hailed over comms uninvited. Now they expect others to not be offended when they don't respond? How rude.

Nope. They are happily playing in Solo.

Rude, cheating, exploiting, antisocial (better add that Cody)... But probably having fun.

 

[Khelder]

Nope. They are happily playing in Solo.

Rude, cheating, exploiting, antisocial (better add that Cody)... But probably having fun.

Well it's a good thing I don't play in Solo then! Not with all those types flying around... wait.

 

[Daffan]

Not new, been asked for and answered by the Devs long ago.

They do not want to try to keep more than 1 BGS up and running that would evolve differently to each other.
And if they suddenly decided more than 1 BGS is ok, then all the "offline-gate" would spring up as one of the excuses was not wanting to try and keep more than 1 BGS up and running as it would cause inconsistencies between them.

Also having more than 1 BGS means people would need more than 1 save - which would kinda mess with the whole;

From the Kickstarter;
*And the best part - you can do all this online with your friends, or other "Elite" pilots like yourself, or even alone. The choice is yours...*
*you will be able to control who else you might encounter in your game – perhaps limit it to just your friends? Cooperate on adventures or chase your friends down to get that booty. The game will work in a seamless, lobby-less way, with the ability to rendezvous with friends
*Play it your way*
*Your reputation is affected by your personal choices. Play the game your way: dangerous pirate, famous explorer or notorious assassin - the choice is yours to make. Take on missions and affect the world around you, alone or with your friends.*
*You simply play the game, and depending on your configuration (your choice) *
*We have the concept of “groups”. They can be private groups just of your friends or open groups (that form part of the game) based on the play styles people prefer, and the rules in each can be different. Players will begin in the group “All” but can change groups at will,*


See that bit in red? It does not say you can change character at will, it says you can change group at will. Something that forcing more than 1 save on people would mess with.
Subtle difference I know, but it was there from the start.

Also, the "problem" we keep being told by open advocates is open "needs more players" - a second save on a new BGS would not fix that, in fact it would make it worse.
Right now, if someone wants to play open they can, but on a new BGS having to start again - some folks don't have time for that, so they wont bother.

I wonder why open needs more players when most of the players are grinding, farming or undermining in solo lol . they don't actually like it, its just the most efficient

i personally don't really care about the player count, i care about the gameplay being invalidated and made less meaningful. eg. nearly all things to do with other players is worthless

I cant wait until they put those player minor factions in the game and they get steamrolled by solo

 

[fademist]

I wonder why open needs more players when most of the players are grinding, farming or undermining in solo lol

i personally don't really care about the player count, i care about the gameplay being invalidated and made less meaningful.

I cant wait until they put those minor factions in the game and they get steamrolled by solo

and that is only few ppl that feel that way..the ones that want to dictate how other ppl play the game....
if they put the minor factions dont be sure that will be steamrolled...

 

[Jockey79]

I wonder why open needs more players when most of the players are grinding, farming or undermining in solo lol . they don't actually like it, its just the most efficient

You have no idea who likes what mode.
You also have no idea why anyone uses what ever mode they pick to play on.

i personally don't really care about the player count, i care about the gameplay being invalidated and made less meaningful. eg. nearly all things to do with other players is worthless

"meaningful" is subjective.
What gives you meaning, breaks my immersion and is meaningless to me.

So if you cannot find "meaning" in your actions / interactions due to knowing others are having fun doing what they want without you being there, that is not a fault of the game.

I cant wait until they put those player minor factions in the game and they get steamrolled by solo

Problem here is, you have no idea who will be doing what, in which mode.
Also you're not taking instancing in to account. There will be plenty of people in open you'll never see due to ping / location / time zones etc etc etc....

 

[Daffan]

Problem here is, you have no idea who will be doing what, in which mode.

exactly, which is why it will be funny watching the percentage bar drop like power play and you cant do anything lol

kind of why power play is a grind for people, not worth attacking thnx to undermine easy merits and impossible to defend

 

[Jockey79]

exactly, which is why it will be funny watching the percentage bar drop like power play and you cant do anything lol

kind of why power play is a grind for people, not worth attacking thnx to undermine easy merits and impossible to defend

but even if the game was open only, you'd still have the same problem

 

[Bomba Luigi]

exactly, which is why it will be funny watching the percentage bar drop like power play and you cant do anything lol

kind of why power play is a grind for people, not worth attacking thnx to undermine easy merits and impossible to defend

Of course you can do something, If someone works to lower the influence of a faction you simply have to work to bring it up and voila: You did something.

Its the same with Powerplay, every Action has a counter action and not one counter action involves the need to do pvp. Dunno why so many people always say you can't do anything, its just wrong.

 

[ianw]

but even if the game was open only, you'd still have the same problem

Yup - it's the same old story.

Something's broken!

How can we fix it?

Absolutely no idea. But let's do something about mode switching anyway, never liked that!

 

[Roybe]

I cant wait until they put those player minor factions in the game and they get steamrolled by solo

Me neither!

 

[Jockey79]

Let me try this another way.

We know for sure, the game on PC / Mac has sold over 500,000 copies.
We know the theoretical maximum for each instance is 32 (though it has never been reached, but for this lets say we do)

And lets say there is only open mode and everyone logs on the same time and flies off to Hutton to collect those mugs

That will give you 15,625 instances at Hutton and you can only be in 1 of them to see 31 other people.
The other 499,968 people will never ever know you were there.......

Now factor in that at Lugh, even trying to tweak the game / networking and so on they only ever got 16 in 1 instance, we just doubled how many instances there'd be at Hutton for the same number of people and brought you down to being 1 of 16 not 1 of 32.

499,984 people that would not see you.

Open only would still have the same problem of, not being able to see / stop others from doing what they want.
We could go on, but I'd guess you get the point by now.

 

[M_Biscotti]

Hello again,

following what people said here, and on the other I launched and in "my" guild (you won't see them they don't play elite). I may have a bit better understood and changed playing mode to solo (I don't pvpve that's all). When I bought the game it was stated as an mmo but I couldn't expect what I found : there is no cooperative pve, only solo, pvpve and arena pvp. Elite is simply not a traditional mmo, it's a solo game with pvp modes. In fact imho it's not bad nor good, it just is.

The only thing I can add too cool down things is telling you that wherever I went in terms of mmos, the pvp and pve communities were as compatible as dogs and cats. I don't think pvp players can understand pve ones and vice-versa. Imho it isn't a real problem as long as no community wants to enforce its point of view on the other. So take it easy and keep in mind that cat fight is really different than dog fight ^^.

regards

 

[Faded Glory]

I wonder why open needs more players when most of the players are grinding, farming or undermining in solo lol . they don't actually like it, its just the most efficient

I can't believe that. I cannot believe that people are as stupid as you are suggesting they are by playing a game in a way that gives them no satisfaction, no fun.

i personally don't really care about the player count, i care about the gameplay being invalidated and made less meaningful. eg. nearly all things to do with other players is worthless

Surely it's only worthless playing with other people if you're not interested in making it worthwhile. There's nothing to stop you arranging convoys or battles, or whatever you want, but if you cannot find enough players to do that with, then presumably they simply don't agree with your assessment of what's worthwhile.

I cant wait until they put those player minor factions in the game and they get steamrolled by solo

As others have already said, player factions will only get 'steamrolled' if their supporters are too apathetic to support them, or if they insist on hanging out in Open trying to blockade against every other player that they can't see, including those in Open.

The factions are part of the environment, they will need to be supported by undertaking the missions that FD decide to post in their name.

 

[Jockey79]

Looks like the number of instances is going to jump as ED is now a top seller.
Even more people that may never be seen in open, despite playing open.

 

[Jordan Cobalt]

Let me try this another way.

We know for sure, the game on PC / Mac has sold over 500,000 copies.
We know the theoretical maximum for each instance is 32 (though it has never been reached, but for this lets say we do)

And lets say there is only open mode and everyone logs on the same time and flies off to Hutton to collect those mugs

That will give you 15,625 instances at Hutton and you can only be in 1 of them to see 31 other people.
The other 499,968 people will never ever know you were there.......

Now factor in that at Lugh, even trying to tweak the game / networking and so on they only ever got 16 in 1 instance, we just doubled how many instances there'd be at Hutton for the same number of people and brought you down to being 1 of 16 not 1 of 32.

499,984 people that would not see you.

Open only would still have the same problem of, not being able to see / stop others from doing what they want.
We could go on, but I'd guess you get the point by now.

Your numbers are waaay off, of the players who bought the game there's no guarantee that they still play the game. You're also ignoring any concentrated effort by groups of players or PP factions in general. You're also going to be shuffled between multiple instances through out your efforts. Besides all that, there's never, ever going to be so many players in the same system ever. Even cgs only have a few thousand participants.

If you can get a bunch of players to back you up you can certainly bring a CG or pp system to a screeching halt, even with the terrible instancing, as code proved with Hutton. Imagine the dmg if it was open only.

 

[ianw]

Your numbers are waaay off, of the players who bought the game there's no guarantee that they still play the game. You're also ignoring any concentrated effort by groups of players or PP factions in general. You're also going to be shuffled between multiple instances through out your efforts. Besides all that, there's never, ever going to be so many players in the same system ever. Even cgs only have a few thousand participants.

If you can get a bunch of players to back you up you can certainly bring a CG or pp system to a screeching halt, even with the terrible instancing, as code proved with Hutton. Imagine the dmg if it was open only.

Woah there!

Were you actually at Hutton?

They failed completely to make any serious impact on the CG as a whole.

Sure they got a few people but I did 14 or 15 trips and didn't see them or any other pirate at all.

There were about 20 of them according to them - do the numbers - there were many many more "truckers".

I finally saw them after I'd finished my last run and got instanced with them as I went to help someone on my friends list.

Screeching halt my backside!

 

[Roybe]

Your numbers are waaay off, of the players who bought the game there's no guarantee that they still play the game. You're also ignoring any concentrated effort by groups of players or PP factions in general. You're also going to be shuffled between multiple instances through out your efforts. Besides all that, there's never, ever going to be so many players in the same system ever. Even cgs only have a few thousand participants.

If you can get a bunch of players to back you up you can certainly bring a CG or pp system to a screeching halt, even with the terrible instancing, as code proved with Hutton. Imagine the dmg if it was open only.

I would have to pull up comms from the time but IIRC there were close to 10k in Lugh, inclusive of both sides.

If people play a CG in Open, they get what they deserve. It is still way more efficient to play in Private modes...particularly if someone has announced a blockade.

You cannot 'halt' a CG or PP system with a blockade...Lugh showed that to be the case. It was tried by both sides...and very quickly showed the porosity of the game.

If a blockade even starts to show an effect...the smart money will move to private and hustle up the collection of trophies that way.

Now...Code did something interesting...which might have had an effect. They angered a large proportion of the community...which meant that many more people wanted to get a bite at them. Whether this just brought more people to the area...or caused the goal to not complete all levels...is open to discussion. I made three trips to Hutton...two in a trade anaconda and one in a Cobra. I used the Code situation to RP my planned trip. And brought a few folks with me.

Anyway...in short, the game is about pvp between groups collecting PVE trophies. PVP is a role play activity only...and blockades prove this. Porosity cannot be prevented...emotional responses to blockades might have an affect...those that are not emotionally attached will just move to private and continue the collection efforts.

 

[ianw]

I would have to pull up comms from the time but IIRC there were close to 10k in Lugh, inclusive of both sides.

If people play a CG in Open, they get what they deserve. It is still way more efficient to play in Private modes...particularly if someone has announced a blockade.

You cannot 'halt' a CG or PP system with a blockade...Lugh showed that to be the case. It was tried by both sides...and very quickly showed the porosity of the game.

If a blockade even starts to show an effect...the smart money will move to private and hustle up the collection of trophies that way.

Now...Code did something interesting...which might have had an effect. They angered a large proportion of the community...which meant that many more people wanted to get a bite at them. Whether this just brought more people to the area...or caused the goal to not complete all levels...is open to discussion. I made three trips to Hutton...two in a trade anaconda and one in a Cobra. I used the Code situation to RP my planned trip. And brought a few folks with me.

Anyway...in short, the game is about pvp between groups collecting PVE trophies. PVP is a role play activity only...and blockades prove this. Porosity cannot be prevented...emotional responses to blockades might have an affect...those that are not emotionally attached will just move to private and continue the collection efforts.

Yes - Code did have an effect. They provided a comedy element as well as angering some people - which is actually quite good if you think about it.

But loads of people were invested in the event thanks to Hutton radio - the threads on the forum - facebook etc. Code were an entertaining sideshow - but they had virtually no impact on the event as they had insufficient numbers - way before anyone even knew they were there.

 

[Jordan Cobalt]

Woah there!

Were you actually at Hutton?

They failed completely to make any serious impact on the CG as a whole.

Sure they got a few people but I did 14 or 15 trips and didn't see them or any other pirate at all.

There were about 20 of them according to them - do the numbers - there were many many more "truckers".

I finally saw them after I'd finished my last run and got instanced with them as I went to help someone on my friends list.

Screeching halt my backside!

Nope wasn't there, I only pirate at cgs and there's no point in flying an hour to steal scrap metal. I was just going by the forums, you'd think from everyone's reaction you'd think the complete opposite.