Modes The Solo vs Open vs Groups Thread - Mk III

Do you want a Open PvE

  • Yes, I want a Open PvE

    Votes: 54 51.4%
  • No, I don't want a Open PvE

    Votes: 49 46.7%
  • I want only Open PvE and PvP only in groups

    Votes: 2 1.9%

  • Total voters
    105
  • Poll closed .
Status
Thread Closed: Not open for further replies.
....
I read here on forums that ED sold over 1M copies. This makes Mobius population a bit more than 1%. It's possible that the rest 99% of ED players know about Mobius, but do not want to join. May be they're all PVP players, who knows...

Couple of points;

1) Even if we know the exact number of "sales" - we still do not how how that translates in to % of PvP / PvE players or where they play.
(Some of those sales are to a single person who wants more than 1 account to play on - we also do not know if any accounts have been banned or abandoned (a few forum members have stated they do not play the game any more due to disappointment). So the whole "1%" for Mobius that gets thrown around like a fact set in stone should have "approx" attached to it, as no one knows how close that number is).

2)It is "possible" that the none forum user player base know about the Mobius Group, but it is highly unlikely. With the limited chat functions and poor matchmaking, plus how people tend not to chat much in game - chances are there are lots of people who do not have a clue about the Mobius Group. I have played in open a few times and only ever had 2 people speak to me. 1 was just as I jumped out of a system, so I didn't get time to answer. The other I had a chat with and they were cool and helpful. So news of private groups really cannot spread in game very well.
 
Couple of points;

1) Even if we know the exact number of "sales" - we still do not how how that translates in to % of PvP / PvE players or where they play.
(Some of those sales are to a single person who wants more than 1 account to play on - we also do not know if any accounts have been banned or abandoned (a few forum members have stated they do not play the game any more due to disappointment). So the whole "1%" for Mobius that gets thrown around like a fact set in stone should have "approx" attached to it, as no one knows how close that number is).

2)It is "possible" that the none forum user player base know about the Mobius Group, but it is highly unlikely. With the limited chat functions and poor matchmaking, plus how people tend not to chat much in game - chances are there are lots of people who do not have a clue about the Mobius Group. I have played in open a few times and only ever had 2 people speak to me. 1 was just as I jumped out of a system, so I didn't get time to answer. The other I had a chat with and they were cool and helpful. So news of private groups really cannot spread in game very well.

1) The same could be said about the Mobius number of users.
2) Most likely the majority of players does not know about Mobius, but they dont want to know. If they want to join the group they would definitely explore such possibility and wouldn't miss the Mobius posts.
 
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1) The same could be said about the Mobius number of users.

I did.... did you miss last part? "So the whole "1%" for Mobius that gets thrown around like a fact set in stone should have "approx" attached to it, as no one knows how close that number is" :p

2) Most likely the majority of players does not know about Mobius, but they dont want to know. If they want to join the group they would definitely explore such possibility and wouldn't miss the Mobius posts.

"but they don't want to know" ?? - How can you jump to that conclusion? Someone does not want to know about something they do not know?? wut !?
"If they want to join the group" ?? - They would need to know about it first. You cannot "explore such possibility" if you do not know about it to start with.

Perhaps something on the main menu screen explaining the private groups option and a few examples of PvP / PvE groups. As not everyone uses the forums or trawls YouTube / Twitch
 
I did.... did you miss last part? "So the whole "1%" for Mobius that gets thrown around like a fact set in stone should have "approx" attached to it, as no one knows how close that number is" :p



"but they don't want to know" ?? - How can you jump to that conclusion? Someone does not want to know about something they do not know?? wut !?
"If they want to join the group" ?? - They would need to know about it first. You cannot "explore such possibility" if you do not know about it to start with.

Perhaps something on the main menu screen explaining the private groups option and a few examples of PvP / PvE groups. As not everyone uses the forums or trawls YouTube / Twitch

I'm sorry I was not clear enough in my previous post. I'll attempt to explain.

1. "Some of those sales are to a single person who wants more than 1 account to play on - we also do not know if any accounts have been banned or abandoned (a few forum members have stated they do not play the game any more due to disappointment)." this could be said about Mobius 15K members.

2. In order to find something one should either look for it or randomly come across. It's possible that the majority of ED players are casual and not interested in forums, groups, community and etc. They're not looking for the group. This is the sad reality we have to accept and live with it whether we like it or not. And I know your Mobius groups is awesome and most likely the group will grow as more players join ED, but I'm afraid the proportion of 1% from total ED users will remain the same.
 
I'm sorry I was not clear enough in my previous post. I'll attempt to explain.

1. "Some of those sales are to a single person who wants more than 1 account to play on - we also do not know if any accounts have been banned or abandoned (a few forum members have stated they do not play the game any more due to disappointment)." this could be said about Mobius 15K members.

Yes, which is why I said the 1% needs an "approx" - as no one knows how close (or indeed, if it is close at all) that is.
It does not take in to account people who only joined the Mobius Group for "just in case" reason, but never played in it and used open only.
It ignores people who do not play at all any more, "sales" and "players" are not the same thing - someone getting Horizons for Christmas, is a "sale", but they are not yet a "player".
Just as those who posted the good old "I quit" rants, they are "sales" but no longer "players" (if you take their word on not playing any more), same goes for those having a break, they are not currently "players"

In plain English, that 1% is like every other statistic on the internet - inaccurate or made up to suit the narative (in this case, belittle and dismiss the Mobius Group).
The only numbers we can sort of prove, is Mobius is the largest recorded group in game currently. As it holds over 15,200 members registered to it. ( <- note the lack of the word "player(s)" here, I said "members")

Only FD have the numbers of how many active players there are and where they play, and they are not telling.
Though if XB1 is anything to go by, the addition of private groups could be a clue to where the wind blows. Again however, FD are not talking.

2. In order to find something one should either look for it or randomly come across. It's possible that the majority of ED players are casual and not interested in forums, groups, community and etc. They're not looking for the group. This is the sad reality we have to accept and live with it whether we like it or not. And I know your Mobius groups is awesome and most likely the group will grow as more players join ED, but I'm afraid the proportion of 1% from total ED users will remain the same.

This game on Steam is sold as "Single", "Multiplayer", "Co-op", "MMO" - it is sold as everything.
So we will get (from Steam) a mix of players, including those who are casual, hardcore, role player, PvPer and so on.
Personally, I don't think a game should advertise as everything going - it is misleading and causes problems (clearly).
I think that FD should have picked a demographic and gone with it, then anyone else complaining could have been told - this is a [Whatever demographic] game and sold as one.
But that is my opinion, and worth squat. ;)

Also, it is not *my* Mobius Group. It is Mobius's Mobius Group. And there was talk of it on XB1 one when the option comes up - if he is going to run 2 groups on 2 platforms, as nice as that is of him to do it. It is bang out of order for FD to have 1 community member do what they should have done from the start - supply and maintain a PvE only element to the game.
If Mobius were to take a break, or quit - FD will be left on the back foot as people walk away from ED (as there are some Mobius Group only players, who would leave without Mobius to do the admin of the group).

As for the group staying at 1% - well, that depends on what numbers are looked at and how they are used. Either way, it is still a useless number to be throwing about.
1% of "sales" means nothing to "players" (as people not playing count for nothing) and 1% of "players" cannot be proven by us, only FD.

For all we know, it could be anything from 0.01% of actual active "players" to 99% of actual active "players" using Mobius, or anything in between.
We do not even know for sure if there is another group bigger than Mobius - if there is, it is odd they have not stepped forward to claim the title, so for now we can only assume the Mobius Group - is the largest group (that's as close as we can get to actual size comparisons)
 
2. In order to find something one should either look for it or randomly come across. It's possible that the majority of ED players are casual and not interested in forums, groups, community and etc. They're not looking for the group. This is the sad reality we have to accept and live with it whether we like it or not. And I know your Mobius groups is awesome and most likely the group will grow as more players join ED, but I'm afraid the proportion of 1% from total ED users will remain the same.

A useful approximation is the 90-9-1 rule. Out of 100 players, 90 won't bother with the forums, 9 will read but not post, and 1 will post. It naturally varies from game to game, but usually not by much.

Which means that any bit of info mostly spread through the forums — such as the existence of the Mobius group — will remain unknown for most of the player base. And that, in turn, means that if the info has the potential to make the game more enjoyable for a meaningful part of the player base, relying on the forums to spread it is a bad idea.

The same thing tends to apply to searching for game information outside the game, be it in third party sites, strategy guides, or even the game manual. If a player needs to look somewhere else to find a bit of information, a safe bet is that most players won't have that bit of info.

That is part of the reason why some people want an official Open PvE mode. It's an effective way to spread the information that there are ways to play with others without subjecting oneself to unwanted PvP. It would also prevent issues in case Mobius stops playing for any reason.

Also: PvE tends to be at least as popular as PvP when players are given the option. Sometimes wildly more popular — in UO, for example, when players became able to choose to be subject to PvP or not, the vast majority decided to not be subject to PvP. At this moment it's just a guess, but I would be surprised if an Open PvE mode in ED didn't manage to get at least as many players as the PvP-enabled Open.
 
A useful approximation is the 90-9-1 rule. Out of 100 players, 90 won't bother with the forums, 9 will read but not post, and 1 will post. It naturally varies from game to game, but usually not by much.

Which means that any bit of info mostly spread through the forums — such as the existence of the Mobius group — will remain unknown for most of the player base. And that, in turn, means that if the info has the potential to make the game more enjoyable for a meaningful part of the player base, relying on the forums to spread it is a bad idea.

The same thing tends to apply to searching for game information outside the game, be it in third party sites, strategy guides, or even the game manual. If a player needs to look somewhere else to find a bit of information, a safe bet is that most players won't have that bit of info.

That is part of the reason why some people want an official Open PvE mode. It's an effective way to spread the information that there are ways to play with others without subjecting oneself to unwanted PvP. It would also prevent issues in case Mobius stops playing for any reason.

Also: PvE tends to be at least as popular as PvP when players are given the option. Sometimes wildly more popular — in UO, for example, when players became able to choose to be subject to PvP or not, the vast majority decided to not be subject to PvP. At this moment it's just a guess, but I would be surprised if an Open PvE mode in ED didn't manage to get at least as many players as the PvP-enabled Open.

I think in-game group finder is the great idea. I'd not favor and market any of the groups in game though, because this will be the unfair advantage.

"When players became able to choose to be subject to PvP or not, the vast majority decided to not be subject to PvP." - not sure if this is the accurate statement. I think accepting consensual PVP will result much bigger player's exodus than disbanding Mobius. None of us knows this for sure and these are pure speculations. It's up to FD to decide what is the best for them based on their commercial interests. I truly hope their decisions will be carefully thought out and will generate continuous interest to the game.
 
I think in-game group finder is the great idea. I'd not favor and market any of the groups in game though, because this will be the unfair advantage.

"When players became able to choose to be subject to PvP or not, the vast majority decided to not be subject to PvP." - not sure if this is the accurate statement. I think accepting consensual PVP will result much bigger player's exodus than disbanding Mobius. None of us knows this for sure and these are pure speculations. It's up to FD to decide what is the best for them based on their commercial interests. I truly hope their decisions will be carefully thought out and will generate continuous interest to the game.


If I may ask, what do you mean by "I think accepting consensual pvp will result much bigger player's exodus than disbanding Mobius" ?
 
Having on/off PVP checkbox in your settings will result the significant loss of current players.


Which is why a Open-PVE mode has been requested.. no flags.. everyone in one Open mode will be PVP in the other PVE. And all can be happy.


Well until some start clamoring their mode is better and should be buffed over the other mode because it is "easy mode" or something.. so while many player would be happy you would still have the forum circle jerks that need to be countered.
 
So may I suggest to stop pushing our personal agendas on other ppl playstyle?

Taken 12 months to circle around to this - what solo & group players had been saying since the topic started :D

"We" collectively have a single agenda - we want to be able to choose who we play with and how. That's really about it.

Thankfully, FD obliged us; it's built-in from the first, the choice of modes.
 
Taken 12 months to circle around to this - what solo & group players had been saying since the topic started :D

"We" collectively have a single agenda - we want to be able to choose who we play with and how. That's really about it.

Thankfully, FD obliged us; it's built-in from the first, the choice of modes.

You already have the 3 choices that most of the games won't give you. Aren't you getting picky?
 
You already have the 3 choices that most of the games won't give you. Aren't you getting picky?

True, but the main reason behind the Open PvE initiative as far as I know was exactly what you listed. Most don't know about Mobius unless they are told about it. The 4th theoretical mode would be there for everyone being able to choose to opt out of the PvP enabled Open mode without having to find out about Mobius, contanct Mobius and wait for admission into the group. Not to mention that management of said group would be automatic instead of a player having to chaperone thousands of players. And ofc incidents like the ones where some people decide it's fun to crash the party at Mobius wouldn't happen with an automatically enforced PvE only mode.

That said, I don't see this happening, so we make do with what we have. What the residents of this thread take badly is usually the fact that someone with a short sighted mind comes around time and time again, saying that everyone desiring a different playstyle then open (be it solo and/or group) is a coward, that 80ies crappy cartoon about stuffed animals, or the like. Those are the people who get heat here, from my experience.

Oh and on a belated note, welcome to the threadnaut where posts go to die :D
 
True, but the main reason behind the Open PvE initiative as far as I know was exactly what you listed. Most don't know about Mobius unless they are told about it. The 4th theoretical mode would be there for everyone being able to choose to opt out of the PvP enabled Open mode without having to find out about Mobius, contanct Mobius and wait for admission into the group. Not to mention that management of said group would be automatic instead of a player having to chaperone thousands of players. And ofc incidents like the ones where some people decide it's fun to crash the party at Mobius wouldn't happen with an automatically enforced PvE only mode.

That said, I don't see this happening, so we make do with what we have. What the residents of this thread take badly is usually the fact that someone with a short sighted mind comes around time and time again, saying that everyone desiring a different playstyle then open (be it solo and/or group) is a coward, that 80ies crappy cartoon about stuffed animals, or the like. Those are the people who get heat here, from my experience.

Oh and on a belated note, welcome to the threadnaut where posts go to die :D

Having PVE Open mode will make Mobius obsolete. Other than that I personally don't see the big deal in PVE Open. Most of the people who will migrate there will be from Solo and the current Open (PVP?) will not change much. I'd rather have developers time spent on something more viable like placing aliens in space or sand worms into Horizon expansion.
 
Having PVE Open mode will make Mobius obsolete. Other than that I personally don't see the big deal in PVE Open. Most of the people who will migrate there will be from Solo and the current Open (PVP?) will not change much. I'd rather have developers time spent on something more viable like placing aliens in space or sand worms into Horizon expansion.

Yeah, I personally think it's not likely to happen either, I just brought it up to mention why it was proposed in the first place. The whole discussion of this threadnaut has been going on for 3 iterations if I counted right, and it is here to stay. The flames just go high from time to time when someone thinks that open is the only valid mode and everyone else should lie down and accept it. It is nice to see that you actually see the effects of such mode as most people for it, as in for the current open probably none.

I'm content with the current implementation and the choice of modes we have now, and from my perspective FD should use their resources on making the game better. Not sure about the aliens, though if Galnet is to be believed, our favorite bugs might poke their heads in soon ;) What I would like to see for season 2 is more options of sharing missions with friends, but I probably won't be getting the pitchforks and burn down the building if their priorities don't coincide with mine.
 

Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
May be they don't like the fact that some insist on removing non-consensual PVP from the game while these some already have PVE only modes. However, these modes are not enough, some just want it all!

There is no PvE mode that offers players the opportunity to play with a large proportion of the player-base - that would be (relatively) easily fixed by the implementation of an Open-PvE mode.

While Solo is, by definition, PvE, the same cannot be said for Private Groups - there's nothing (apart from the non-game-enforced rules of the Private Group) to stop PvP when two players meet.
 
... Aren't you getting picky?

By asking FD to support the statements they sold us the game with?

"Play your way" / "you can do all this online with your friends, or other "Elite" pilots like yourself, or even alone. The choice is yours"

At no point did they say, you will have to play with every pvper who buys the game cuz "reasons". I want to be able to play the advertised "Co-op" with all other members of the player base, not just the few who read the forums. A main menu item advertising (like Open PvE or have Groups listed in a PvP / PvE group filter and options to enable / disable PvP within the group) would go a long way to making sure all players know there is other ways to play the game apart from open PvP
 
Ok, so what do you recommend I do? I enjoy playing as a pirate. Thats why I bought the game, and thats why I play in open mode. Its why I purchased the pirate paintjobs for my ships.

The modes are fine as-is.

Nice conversation. And this ^^^ is nice to see. Enjoy playing pirate, and go for it.

Personally I would just suggest remembering that behind the Avatars are people who might not react the same way as you when being pirated, and that might be for a reason. But that's my personal opinion.

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You already have the 3 choices that most of the games won't give you. Aren't you getting picky?

Unless new players read the boards (unlikely) the possibility exists that they do not realise that they are "signing up to consentual PvP."
 
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