If more pirates were like Jordan then people may get into the RP aspect of the game, sadly though Jordan is the rarity.
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If more pirates were like Jordan then people may get into the RP aspect of the game, sadly though Jordan is the rarity.
If Jordan ever caught me, I would give 1t of bacon.
Irony, it hurts.
Yes, Robert freedom of choice...I get it. Woo hoo. It still is a bad design choice. A much better one would have been making the game coop only and remove the illusion that direct PvP matters...then the modes make sense to the broader gaming world.
Bad design is bad design. Very few people want to play in a game where anyone can undermine weeks and months of work. Look at the storm that the fifth columners caused when PowerPlay released. And they did that in Open! Where's the outrage now that this is happening in Private modes? LOL! No one knows about it, can't see it, and accepts that there are 'bugs'! This game is designed to be a dirty, back stabbing, game worse than anything the devs in Eve ever concocted...and all people talk about is that the mode switching is only for matters of player choice. This game is set up so that PvE players can gank anyone any time...from the Private modes. The real name of the game should be Elite: PvE Gets Its Revenge!
I can accept this is bad design, and still get some level of enjoyment out of the game, but I do not accept that this is good for the game...and believe the only way to repair this is to remove friendly fire between players. No other choice, or change makes sense. Any other option would force players in various directions and that hurts everyone. You would lose some of the PvP crowd....but they have their own offering within CQC. If that is not enough...<shrug>...the way things are going there won't be people in Open to play with anyway....since so many of them are playing to win the PvE contests in Private...or avoiding the 'interaction' of the PvP crowd.
TLDR;
'Mode Choice' is the reason that PvP does not matter and why the game cannot contain anything other than 'grind to win' indirect PvP.
I'm sorry but I disagree that there is any "illusion" at all that direct PVP matters at all because it is blatant all throughout the game that it does NOT.
<shrug> It's only an illusion that is created through the marketing department. I agree, once people play it, they lose their minds...and generally wind up here...complaining that 'IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE IMPORTANT BECAUSE IT SAYS THE GAME IS PVP!'. The game is PvP oriented...the way to win PvP contests is to outgrind the other side! 'THAT'S NOT REAL PVP!', these folks say. All we can say is, 'It is in this game! Understand it, accept it, or leave.'
You mean like heading off into the black in a lightly armed explorer only to get ganked by an overpowered Connie when returning to human occupied space after a months long expedition?
I read it as the game had pvp not is pvp, but if people key in on a word and just jump.. why should everyone else be punished to suit them?
There are many, including myself, that think the current structure is an excellent design. It offers each player the type of access they prefer, on a session to session basis. It just makes perfect sense if your goal is to attract as many players as possible. I can't see why FD should care how often players do, or want to see other players. Each player can seek what they crave using the method they feel most comfortable with.
The rub comes when players become disappointed with just how many players agree with them. There just may not be enough players who desire open, to fulfill the expectations of a certain portion of the community. This disappointment is then expressed as 'it's not fair'. Fairness is never absolute when there are different goals/needs placed on a system. There has to be a balance to be sure that everyone has as equal a share as is possible. The modes are that balance. "A good compromise is one where both sides end up unhappy." I don;t know who originally said that, but it makes perfect sense.
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Mouse, we've all been saying it over and over to the same people for months.
If people want to pretend ED is a PvP game - leave them to it, let them sit in their delusions.
I'd really like one person to show me where it says the game "is" a PvP game, as opposed to a game that "allows" PvP.
@Roybe As for "bad design" - that is a matter of personal opinion not fact. This is what the Devs advertised from the get go, do I really need to quote you my wall of information to prove it?
Jockey...it is what the devs designed, yes. This does not excuse it from being a 'feature' that causes more problematic issues that the few it solves. Thus, regardless of opinion, it is poor design. There are many better ways to 'create safety levels' in a game...simply preventing PvP from existing would have been a more elegant way...and still provide the same functionality and choices. The devs overarching design, however, wasn't about working together or cooperation, it was about drama through conflict.
"Meaningful PvP" means different things to different people, so it being left in the hands of players caused the prospect of there ever being meaningful PvP to be destroyed by a handful of colossal berks acting up like bullies, showing no remorse or respect for those they targeted and utterly ignorant of the consequences of their actions. People then accepted the impression that open was filled to the brim with scum and villainy as fact, then did exactly what you said - they left. Thanks to the other modes, they still play Elite. Without such modes they would simply have walked away from the game in disgust, which benefits FD not a jot.
People actually being bullies, jerks and thugs (rather than just playing them) caused the the failure of free, open PvP environments, no more, no less.
Using that same line of reasoning, I can declare EVE Online to be poor design.
Having player run areas of space and no real place away from PvP (suicide gankers fly around 1.0 space and kill new players as well as other ways to kill in "safe space" without getting Concord kick your backside, but still grief those new players), stops anyone from being able to enjoy any PvE content they put into the game.
I used to join in the Friday night mining Ops, where loads of random people (newer players) were mentored and helped by people who had played longer, I lost count of the times out little PvE night in safe space was gatecrashed by idiots who would not leave new players alone to get settled in to the game.
Also, having ships in the game that cannot go into safe space at all, months of work to get a massive ship then to be forced to keep it docked in case someone sees you in it and calls for a mass of morons to station camp you - how is that for a poor design, when you cannot even use something you spent years training for and months to get - all you can do is sit there looking at the station walls.
Yes EVE Online is a very bad design indeed.
And this is just one game, I can do this for almost any online game I've played. The difference here is, the Devs never hid a single thing about the design choices being made, they told us all long before anyone had given them any money - it was the sales pitch!
So I counter with, the game is not a bad design - as it was approved and backed by those who wanted it.
So basically you're saying to sever the gangrene arm instead of trying to save it? That's certainly the direct approach, but not an opinion I share. To me pvp is the only part that feels lively. Pve is so.......lifeless and empty.
Pvp is the only thing justifying open mode. If they remove it then they might as well just remove open all together. The coop in this game is practically non existent.
If the real pvp were to ever dry up so would my interest in the game.
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I can agree with this..but the actions of fools did not move nearly as many people out of Open as the design related to the chasing of goals through PvE capture of trophies. (CG's, PowerPlay, etc>) Open slows down any of these activities because player interaction slows down the grind. Whether it's a quick hello or a PvP player, the attainment of any in game goal causes these players to take more time to grind out their necessary items.
ats, will be ats. This is a given in any PvP pew pew game. People that get in the way of competitive goal attainment are even more intolerable. It's just better to play away from the interruptions. Basically, since the way to attain things in the game is viable only through PvE, the best way to play is in modes that support PvE.
And what about all those pages in threads 1 & 2 saying "Social interaction" ~ is that not justifying the need for open mode, so people can meet new people?
You must be flying with your eyes shut, I've spent less than 10% of my in game time alone - even when mining I have folks jump in with me, and I go mining to be alone. Be it in private groups, in Mobius or my documented time in open - I always get someone shout me up to team up, or in the case of open someone offered to mentor me.
In the end, I've started using Solo just for some peace from time to time.
There is a push for a open PVE server.. and while to you PVE maybe lifeless and empty, for many of us it isn't and it is fun. FD did their best to try and offer both of us a game, but some on one side decided the game had to be their way only.. which is why we are here discussing things again and again and again
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Honestly, this is the only option I feel could work since I've come to grips with the games design. The game has some ideas on how to provide player safety and introduced more problems with it than the issues it tried to address. The reason the game feels so shallow, to so many, is it is a grinder type game. The only way to advance is to grind on some PvE activity. There is no reason to PvP directly against players. There is no extrinsic reward for it. Nor is there much skill...until the last health potion is taken by either player....which adds grind on top of PvP....go figure!
So why keep up the charade. Once CQC comes online...remove friendly fire...and the game becomes the PvE game it really wants to be.
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